New RMT BEEPs?

I don't know the odds of ever seeing new BEEPs made (but consider it slim since there haven't been new ones in many years).  Plus, RMT (like any model R.R. seller) picks road names that will SELL. Plus, you have a pretty esoteric list of road names there, most of which are unlikely to be selected.

@RadioRon posted:

I don't know the odds of ever seeing new BEEPs made (but consider it slim since there haven't been new ones in many years).  Plus, RMT (like any model R.R. seller) picks road names that will SELL. Plus, you have a pretty esoteric list of road names there, most of which are unlikely to be selected.

Fair enough, and what you say has a lot of merit.  Some of my suggestions (EJ&E & RJ Corman) were/are Class 2 railroads on the borderline of Class 1 Status.  [And frankly, I won't willingly buy another PRR engine.  There is such a glut of PRR engines on the market (and we own at least six), that I'm quite sick of them.]  Some say EJ&E was the unofficial 8th North American Class 1 railroad.  Even Wikipedia lists it among "former Class 1 railroads."  Plus, I grew up in its general area, so that railroad will always have a special place in my heart.    No one has made an affordable EJ&E engine in the years I've been following trains. (Yes, MTH has made EJ&E engines, but $500 is not "affordable." Still less affordable is Lionel's version at $650+)

Regarding Lake State, I had not heard of it prior to researching "notable shortline railroads" and found this trains article.  I do love the paint, which is reminiscent to me of NYC, only in prettier colors.  So your point there definitely has a lot of merit.   I similarly hadn't seen any Maine Northern engine until the last few years.  Even CSS&SB would perhaps only do well in the Chicago area.

Some of my suggestions are, no doubt, unworkable.  But EJ&E is a "necessity"   And a series dedicated to shortline or Class 2 railroads might be more "collectible" than "ho hum, another Class 1 engine." Unless they were Heritage units.

I'm just thinking out loud here (no intent to offend): D&RGW was a Class 1 and always sells well. Same with Southern--especially the green with white & gold pinstripe that ran on their F- & E- units.    And the others on my list are all such pretty paint schemes.  But RMT would obviously have to see a market for them before making any.

For that matter, I would also love CN in the old black and white diagonal stripe pattern, or KCS. Montana Rail Link might do okay.

Bicentennial always sells well.  2026 will be the Semiquincentennial of the Declaration of Independence, so surely it's not too soon to start discussing paint schemes for that.

Folks, let's please suggest more paint scheme ideas!

@Micro posted:

Fair enough, and what you say has a lot of merit.  Some of my suggestions (EJ&E & RJ Corman) were/are Class 2 railroads on the borderline of Class 1 Status.  [And frankly, I won't willingly buy another PRR engine.  There is such a glut of PRR engines on the market (and we own at least six), that I'm quite sick of them.]  Some say EJ&E was the unofficial 8th North American Class 1 railroad.  Even Wikipedia lists it among "former Class 1 railroads."  Plus, I grew up in its general area, so that railroad will always have a special place in my heart.    No one has made an affordable EJ&E engine in the years I've been following trains. (Yes, MTH has made EJ&E engines, but $500 is not "affordable." Still less affordable is Lionel's version at $650+)

Regarding Lake State, I had not heard of it prior to researching "notable shortline railroads" and found this trains article.  I do love the paint, which is reminiscent to me of NYC, only in prettier colors.  So your point there definitely has a lot of merit.   I similarly hadn't seen any Maine Northern engine until the last few years.  Even CSS&SB would perhaps only do well in the Chicago area.

Some of my suggestions are, no doubt, unworkable.  But EJ&E is a "necessity"   And a series dedicated to shortline or Class 2 railroads might be more "collectible" than "ho hum, another Class 1 engine." Unless they were Heritage units.

I'm just thinking out loud here (no intent to offend): D&RGW was a Class 1 and always sells well. Same with Southern--especially the green with white & gold pinstripe that ran on their F- & E- units.    And the others on my list are all such pretty paint schemes.  But RMT would obviously have to see a market for them before making any.

For that matter, I would also love CN in the old black and white diagonal stripe pattern, or KCS. Montana Rail Link might do okay.

Bicentennial always sells well.  2026 will be the Semiquincentennial of the Declaration of Independence, so surely it's not too soon to start discussing paint schemes for that.

Folks, let's please suggest more paint scheme ideas!

Lot's of shells available on the market. I'd consider doing custom paint jobs if the mood strikes.

@RadioRon posted:

I don't know the odds of ever seeing new BEEPs made (but consider it slim since there haven't been new ones in many years).  Plus, RMT (like any model R.R. seller) picks road names that will SELL. Plus, you have a pretty esoteric list of road names there, most of which are unlikely to be selected.

My crystal ball says there's a very high likelihood of seeing another run of BEEP engines.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

My crystal ball says there's a very high likelihood of seeing another run of BEEP engines.

with some sort of command control??????

HMMMMMM..........

@RSJB18 posted:

with some sort of command control??????

HMMMMMM..........

Well, that ain't happening, but I did drop a Lionchief board into one and added LED lighting.  The whole upgrade took about an hour.  I took the plastic window shield out so that the speaker sound would exit the shell, it was kinda' muffled with the windows installed.

I have a list of LC upgrades I plan to do one day. A couple BEEPs are included.

Why were Beep's so popular?

Size, price (at least at one time), 2 motors, tight curves, high-quality body fittings, realistic (yes - they looked like an EMD industrial/short line loco that should have existed), all eaten up with cute.

Also there is an historical connection for a few fans, as the basic loco - really only the body now, I guess - is descended from 50's Kusan tooling, through Williams, to RMT (did I miss somebody?)

@NYC 428 posted:

Why were Beep's so popular?

Reasons include:
* O-27,
* the $50 price in the era of $400-$1200 engines--and even a cheap engine on eBay is $75+100 today.  Meanwhile I saw a BEEP auction for $22 yesterday.
* their being a (likely) K-Line design (O Line Reproductions--which only ever sold excess K-Line product after Lionel took them over--made them before RMT bought(?) the molds).  Some of us K-Line snobs like nearly anything K-Line made.

Also, at only 9 inches long and with low bottom-end speeds, conventional control, lighting, and fairly quiet running, not to mention the fairly high details of the later BEEPS, they add up to being a small-yet-powerful engine that fits nearly any budget.  (Even Menards' decent starter engines are too expensive at $200 for a pair).

As I recall, the Beeps weigh about what a K-Line S-2 weighs, and significantly more than a Plymouth Switcher.  I could be wrong though.

GP-9s are nice, but they are almost too big for a small layout.   I'm not upset about missing out on a Blue Comet coach for $10(!) because it was just too big for our layout.  S-2s are about the right size, but aren't "over the road" engines.   Beeps are about the same length and based off a short GP-9.  Plus, model railroading is all about fun, not being true to life when doing that gets in the way of fun.

@RSJB18 posted:

I have a list of LC upgrades I plan to do one day. A couple BEEPs are included.

Blunami would work too but LC is by far the most cost effective.

Pete

A question that I forgot to ask in my earlier post above:

Why have there never been any B-unit Beeps? B-Beeps?

I know that it would take a cabless version of the body tooling, but a dummy B-Beeps coupled to a powered Beep would also give you a relatively generous place for electronics tethered to the powered A-Beep, or just be an interesting variation different from an A-Beep dummy (are there those?) There have been actual B-unit EMD GP locos.

Cost, probably. The Beep is third-hand tooling and updating the chassis for twin motor drive (and other upgrades)  probably put significant price pressure on the completed.

While in normal circumstances a mold insert could be crafted to blank out the cab (that's probably how Lionel's cow/calf switchers were done), there's the question if the Beep tooling is even capable of accepting a mold insert given how long ago it was made.

But in the end, the most likely reason is cost. I understand the 'Peep' coaches are made from chopped-up K-line heavyweight shells, so it follows the Beef locos are probably cut down F-unit shells, (i.e. made on the..."cheep"). Cab-less Beeps would require a heftier investment.

---PCJ

@D500 posted:

A question that I forgot to ask in my earlier post above:

Why have there never been any B-unit Beeps? B-Beeps?

I know that it would take a cabless version of the body tooling, but a dummy B-Beeps coupled to a powered Beep would also give you a relatively generous place for electronics tethered to the powered A-Beep, or just be an interesting variation different from an A-Beep dummy (are there those?) There have been actual B-unit EMD GP locos.

I don't see additional body styles for the BEEP, just the same shell as before.  You know, you can just double-head two beeps and accomplish the same task as far as places to put the electronics.  OTOH, I had no problem at all sticking the Lionchief board into one, and it was dirt cheap.  Making a dummy beep is simple, just pull the motors.  The axles and drive gear remains with the wheels, SHAZAM, you have a dummy.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I had no problem at all sticking the Lionchief board into one, and it was dirt cheap.

John: If you might be interested in doing a step-by-step illustrated how-to article for the magazine, I sure would be happy to publish it.

@Norton posted:

Blunami would work too but LC is by far the most cost effective.

Pete

I'm sitting the Blunami ride out for now. Already running 3 different systems ( Cab 1L, DCS, LC Bluetooth).

The LC upgrades are easy now that I've done one.

Bob

Sticking with my Kusan one that is battery powered.  The road name is a most obscure one. 

I can understand the price aspect, but I've been a member of this forum for over 20 years and have witnessed people complain about everything the manufactures make.

From price, lack of detail, not prototypical enough and so on.  Even models made by Menards at excellent prices get raged on.  That's why I asked what made them so special.

I don't think we will ever see them made again and certainly not at a $50.00 price point, maybe more like $150 to 200 and no control system.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Sticking with my Kusan one that is battery powered.  The road name is a most obscure one. 

How do you tell apart the Kusan from the RMT?

@NYC 428 posted:

I can understand the price aspect, but I've been a member of this forum for over 20 years and have witnessed people complain about everything the manufactures make.

From price, lack of detail, not prototypical enough and so on.  Even models made by Menards at excellent prices get raged on.  That's why I asked what made them so special.

I don't think we will ever see them made again and certainly not at a $50.00 price point, maybe more like $150 to 200 and no control system.

I do understand and see this.  I hope it wouldn't be over $100 or I couldn't afford it.  even $100 is really pushing my budget.  I don't want anything other than conventional.  Any other control system is a waste for me.

But when something is a toy--nothing for it to be prototypical about--I would hope the complaints are less.

@NYC 428 posted:

I can understand the price aspect, but I've been a member of this forum for over 20 years and have witnessed people complain about everything the manufactures make.

From price, lack of detail, not prototypical enough and so on.  Even models made by Menards at excellent prices get raged on.  That's why I asked what made them so special.

I don't think we will ever see them made again and certainly not at a $50.00 price point, maybe more like $150 to 200 and no control system.

RMT that was made 15 plus years ago rarely had a problem. They were simple but well made.

Pete

@NYC 428 posted:

I don't think we will ever see them made again and certainly not at a $50.00 price point, maybe more like $150 to 200 and no control system.

I'm sure you won't see a $50 BEEP, hard to make anything like that with gears, motors, electronics, etc. in that price range.  Lionel's small motorized units like the speeder go for $150, they don't have couplers, and the little RCM2 they use in those is obviously a very cheap board to make given it's retail price.  I'd be shocked if the RCM2 in those is more than $8-$10 to manufacture, and likely less.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I don't see additional body styles for the BEEP, just the same shell as before.  You know, you can just double-head two beeps and accomplish the same task as far as places to put the electronics.  OTOH, I had no problem at all sticking the Lionchief board into one, and it was dirt cheap.  Making a dummy beep is simple, just pull the motors.  The axles and drive gear remains with the wheels, SHAZAM, you have a dummy.

Always wanted to upgrade a Beep, but it never bubbled up to the top of "the list". Probably won't. I do have a very pretty New Haven (best diesel and electric paint schemes ever) unit, but....

I just thought that a B-Beep would be a visually interesting and odd unit, as are the real EMD GP-B-units. I am not expecting them, however.

I don't see them coming up with new molds for a B-Unit, that's pretty expensive.  RMT would have to sell a ton of B-Units in order to come close to breaking even on a new mold!

I would have loved a New York & Atlantic BEEP.  Strange since RMT made NY&A ore cars (I bought a pair) , it seemed a no-brainer.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm sure you won't see a $50 BEEP, hard to make anything like that with gears, motors, electronics, etc. in that price range.  Lionel's small motorized units like the speeder go for $150, they don't have couplers, and the little RCM2 they use in those is obviously a very cheap board to make given it's retail price.  I'd be shocked if the RCM2 in those is more than $8-$10 to manufacture, and likely less.

I realize that it isn't the whole picture, but usinflationcalculator.com says $50 in 2008/2009 would be about $73 today, and that is affordable, especially for folks who are new to the hobby and folks with smaller incomes.

Lionel also charges an arm and a leg for their brand name, and (per the local hobby shop and hobbyists) without MTH, Williams, and K-Line offering competing--or better--products for less money, Lionel hasn't had (nearly as much of) the incentive to keep prices low.  The last time I looked in their catalog, Lionel wanted at least $55-95 for rolling stock, and most was closer to $95 than $55.  RMT, meanwhile, offers quality products in new and rare paint schemes for $30.

I doubt you're going to see $75 BEEP's either.

@Micro posted:

Lionel also charges an arm and a leg for their brand name, and (per the local hobby shop and hobbyists) without MTH, Williams, and K-Line offering competing--or better--products for less money, Lionel hasn't had (nearly as much of) the incentive to keep prices low.  The last time I looked in their catalog, Lionel wanted at least $55-95 for rolling stock, and most was closer to $95 than $55.  RMT, meanwhile, offers quality products in new and rare paint schemes for $30.

*typo fixed (It had said "offering better prices for less money" )

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

My crystal ball says there's a very high likelihood of seeing another run of BEEP engines.

Hopefully they'll have flywheels this time.

@NYC 428 posted:

Why were Beep's so popular?

Because you had to buy two, and wire them together.  Otherwise they would stall going slowly over switches, because they didn't have flywheels

@Ted S posted:

Hopefully they'll have flywheels this time.

I doubt they'll have flywheels.

I would not be surprised to see RMT (Walter) offer those ever-popular BEEPs again in the future. Great little units for layouts of any size, and likely would be offered at a very attractive price. And if it would be possible to fit them with command control, so much the better.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

My crystal ball says there's a very high likelihood of seeing another run of BEEP engines.

I like your crystal ball.

@Allan Miller posted:

I would not be surprised to see RMT (Walter) offer those ever-popular BEEPs again in the future. Great little units for layouts of any size, and likely would be offered at a very attractive price. And if it would be possible to fit them with command control, so much the better.

I think the most practical command option is probably the Blunami 2200, it's something that will be available into the future.  I like the price of the old Lionchief boards, but the supply is very limited and then there are no more.  It would be nice if there were a cheaper option, but I guess that's not in the cards.