Scale GG1 Comparison - GG1s live on!

Perhaps a predecessor to the PC dip job? If it was in serious need of repainting, Wilmington could have simply done a dip job to get it road worthy when traffic picked up in the mid 50's. Sam - I'd certainly be curious to hear what comes out of your dinner.

quote:

Originally posted by GG1 4877:Jonathan Peiffer Modeling the NY&LB in Arizona

Jonathan,

From what I can see in your images, it looks more like you are modeling the APWAP!

(Anything Pennsy with a Pantagraph!)

Sorry, couldn't resist that,
Simon

quote:

Originally posted by GG1 4877:
"Blackjack" refers to the Amtrak restoration of 4935 in 1981. The DGLE (Dark Green Locomotive Enamel) paint when fresh was close to black so that was the nickname given to that road number.

Actually it was given the name because 4+9+3+5 = 21 which is BLACKJACK!

Simon - yes when it comes to electrics I do tend to wander onto the mainline a bit.

Bob - thanks I learned something today!

If anyone did not see the Spring 2010 TCA MTH video with Mike Wolf
he said that MTH will be releasing a HO PS3 version of GG1.
Great new for the HO community and us guys who collect all
the GG1 gauges.



JohnnyJT
South Philly

The HO GG1 must be based on the BLI tooling that was acquired by MTH. I can't see them spending the money on new tooling with the plethora of HO scale GG1's.

I'm about to paint a Protosounds MTH Conrail Blue GG1 into NJDOT funeral black. It should look good pulling some NJT cars and numbered 4879.

So...

The BLI dies are for plastic GG1s?
I know Little Joe Electric HO is metal
so I would guess GG1 would be same with
Operating Pantagraphs and RC Proto Couplers.

JohnnyJT
South Philly

The BLI tooling was originally for a casting, but a very fine casting compared to the monster metal castings we see in O. Mike did mention when he acquired some of the BLI tooling that it did not meet "MTH" standards. I still believe the MTH GG1 tooling for HO came via BLI even if they are doing them in plastic over cast. In HO design all the weight is typically in the cast frame or in internal weighting as is the case with the IHC GG1's of later vintage.

Having seen the cast work done for the BLI PRR T1's in person, they are very refined - like or hate the owner of that company. My Dad picked up two on a great sale and they make my Bowser version look like tin plate.

How did MTH get Broadway's GG-1's dies?

quote:

Originally posted by DominicMazoch:

How did MTH get Broadway's GG-1's dies?

Simple !!!     It's called a "   lawsuit   " !         MTH is very good at that.
 

Well. I will not be getting any H0 stuff soon. Don't do that scale.

Just got 2 electrics for my electric (GG1) collection













JohnnyJT
South Philly

Nice additions! I've got a P5a (modified), but it's the original one with the tinplate pantographs and numbered 4777. I would like to get an EP-3 someday though!

Here is another new member of my Electric GG1 family...








JohnnyJT
South Philly

Who has a prototypical PC or CR E40 to post? Working on a new GG1 project now that's just in the beginning stages, but it involves some serious tools to pull off. If I ruin the shell, I've the parted out 4876 MTH one to use as a replacement.

Hi, Jonathan.

Ask and ye shall receive.

http://pc.smellycat.com/pics/equip/pc4973.jpg

That's a Joe Testagrose photograph. I bought a lot of his slides over the years.

The last two E40's were never "CR'd" and retained their full PC dress right up until retirement. They made for quite a sight as they meandered along the Amboy Secondary with the daily local from Morrisville to Browns Yard in Old Bridge.

All the best,

Bob

quote:

I'm about to paint a Protosounds MTH Conrail Blue GG1 into NJDOT funeral black. It should look good pulling some NJT cars and numbered 4879.

Completely black ... no other markings except for the numbers? Do I have that right?

I remember seeing those (or seeing it ??). I was born in '59, and spent the first 25 years of my life in Linden NJ ... on the PRR mainline. I was not yet a "railfan," but I remember the very cool GG-1's at the station ... in different paint jobs and different railroad markings.

There are freight secondaries that come off the PRR 4-track mainline in Linden and Elizabeth, and GG-1's would have freight cars, too.

Jim (a rookie)

Bob - thanks for the post. Call me crazy, but having one painted like that in freight service would make for some interesting questions.

Jim - You pretty much nailed it. The only indication of ownership was the NJ Dept of Transportation under the number on the right side of the loco when looking at the side view of the loco.

Not very interesting, but the dings and dents will make up for the lack of color interest.

Jonathan:

Williams offered its EP-5 decorated for PC a number of years ago. I'm not sure as to how accurate the model is but it's out there. The only look I got at the locomotive was through its window box at the Trainworld booth at York when it was initially released.

I think the best part of E40 operation between Morrisville and South Amboy was the need to blow the old New Haven Hancock air whistle for the many grade crossings along the former C&A.

Bob

4877:

Parted out the 4872 motor? Did you get that at a bargin basement sale at WAS?

Now W/WBB EP-5:

Body I think is OK, but the trucks could be from the PA.

quote:

Originally posted by ironmine:

I was born in '59, and spent the first 25 years of my life in Linden NJ ... on the PRR mainline.

Jim (a rookie)

What a small world!

I used to visit my grandparents who lived in a large trailer park (now, long gone) during the late 1950's and early 1960's at St. Georges Avenue and N. Stiles.

There was a minature golf (O’Keefe’s Miniature Golf ????) across the street, and a couple of blocks North, an aluminum silver Diner (St. George Diner ?????) where we had lunch or breakfast.

Boy...   does that bring back happy memories!
 

Linden was a favorite place of mine to watch westbound trains in the mid to late afternoon. Looking north (railroad direction east) the right of way is straight all the way to ELMORA so there was plenty of time to set up when you saw a headlight. Sights and sounds of the G's with evening commuters headed home for the shore and Amtrak long distance trains of up to 18 cars powered by E60's which typically departed in mid to late afternoon passing at speed were very impressive.

Here's one of my shots from this period although it is a weekend morning westbound which is pictured. Linden Yard is to the right just out of the picture. Taken 2/27/82...

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/njdot/njt4881crc.jpg

Bob

Bob - I wonder if you know the answer to this question. Many of the GG1's were modified on the hood side of the doors with a long slot near the bottom of the car body. Also there are some holes about mid way up as well. Do you know what purpose they serve?

Dominic - I'm actually simply taking a PS1 Conrail painted 4800 and making it into the NJDOT 4879. Now that I a proper model of 4800, this seemed the way to go. The 4876 PS1 is still on the layout, but needs a set of pilot trucks and two pantographs. It also needs to have the PS1 replaced. I plan on numbering that one 4877 so that I can double head 4879 and 4877 together.

Working on finishing up another uncompleted NJT project today, but pictures sometime soon.

As to the E40, only the K-line version is close to accurate in 3R. The others are either copies of the shortened post war Lionel or simply too short including the Williams.

I knew I should have gotten one of those NH beauties when K-Line was selling them at a hundred a pop! Never knew it was designated E-40. Thanks for the info.

I like the P5Aa Box Cab. Hopefully, MTH will have a Railking version in the future.

The K-Line EP-5 at $100.00 was basic loco. Headlights, FNR. That's all folks! But Porky would have a nice model and runner!

Jonathan,

Can you guys help me here?
Some of you are referring to the black PC electric pictured in an above post as an E40. I thought it was an old New Haven EP-5. What is the difference?

PS: I was just in Phoenix . . . . . sorry I did not have time to look you up.
I was on a photo shoot.

eliot

Upon its absorption of New Haven, Penn Central re-classed NH's EP-5 and EF-4 in accordance with PC's exisiting method of electric locomotive classification. The EP-5 became E40 for "Electric 4000 HP" and the EF-4's new designation was E33 for "Electric 3300 HP."

Jonathan:

I believe the slots were added for ease of maintenance. I'll speak with a couple of the guys to see if I can get more specific information. Perhaps if Sam or Ron see this they would be able to provide more detailed information in a quicker time frame.

Bob

Bob - thanks for looking into it. I'm trying to figure out the best way to modify an MTH casting with those mods and the slots are going to be the toughest.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to cut those slots out? Thanks!

Bob,

Many thanks for the thorough explanation. I never knew that abut the E40. It looks good in PC black.

eliot

Eliot,

Sorry I missed you during your Phoenix trip. I'm making more doing photography out here than I am in architecture and that is not saying a whole lot!

A few former EP-5's survived as E40's into Conrail at least long enough to receive little CR stencils in lieu of the PC mating worms, but they were all off the roster by early 1977 and none were preserved. I don't believe there is much if any documentation of them even pulling revenue trains under Conrail. A true shame. It would have been nice to see one back in New Haven paint.

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0107/pc4976.jpg

I'm not "internet savvy" enough to pull this off ... But the URL here... is for a picture of a "E-40" /EP-5 in the nasty PC livery ...

I'd love to have an accurate model of an EP-5 to run with my GG1's

Had the 50's era Lionel in the "McGuinnes" (?) Black/White/Orange/Red waay cool livery

Tryin' to get Scott to make one...Or a "-2 MTH" if they plege accuracy...

Hey ... I did it !

(But I didn't realize it had been already done above)

Saw my first real GG1... at the National Museum of Transportation (St. L) ...

I was ... kinda sad and a long way from being "camera ready"

A big, hulking , brute that must of been glorious in it's day ...

quote:

Originally posted by GG1 4877: Many of the GG1's were modified on the hood side of the doors with a long slot near the bottom of the car body. Also there are some holes about mid way up as well. Do you know what purpose they serve?

I read somewhere in my Pennsy library that a federal mandate required that locomotive crews be able access windshields for cleaning purposes without the need for a ladder. This resulted in the ugly step (toe-hold,) slots and cutouts and additional grab irons on the sides of the GG1s. The small upper slots were slightly triangular in shape, apparently to clear the tapered side of the sand boxes which were located directly inside. In some photos you can also see the additional long grab irons just below the cab side windows and small grabs at the bottom of the pillar between the side and forward windows. Here is a photo of Amtrak 902 that shows the step cutouts, the long grab iron below the side window and the short grab on the pillar with the forward sandbox hatch below.



Another example of the mandate were the BP20 passenger sharks where the ugly addition of a clunky ladder on the nose ruined what was a very sleek looking locomotive.

Thanks for the additional information regarding the addition of the steps. I had seen employees using them as steps and figured that was their intended purpose.

Regarding the E40's, their final regular service under Conrail ownership was the daily Monday through Friday (and sometimes Saturday) freight between Morrisville and Browns Yard in Old Bridge. The train usually departed Morrisville before daybreak and arrived in Old Bridge early in the morning. After dropping his train in the yard, he would occasionally run to South Amboy if he had work to do there. You would sometimes see the E40 sitting at the South Amboy Yard Office located on the overpass over the NY&LB. He would return west to Morrisville later in the morning. I believe the train symbol was A-2 east and A-1 west. If I recall correctly, the last two E40's running were the 4973 and 4977. They retained full Penn Central lettering until retirement and never received temporary Conrail markings.

There is a splendid photograph of the 4973 headed west along the old C&A in Helmetta in Railpace's book "Conrail Volume 1 1976-1982" for those interested. As Jonthan stated, pictures of the E40's in Conrail service are extremely rare. By the time I finally decided to head out and shoot them myself after seeing them any number of times, the last one had been removed from service the previous week. Imagine my surprise at seeing a consist of two GP30's spliced by a GP9B when I had been expecting an E40. The only thing I was contemplating shoting at that point was myself for my impeccable timing. In hindsight, the GP30-GP9B-GP30 consist in complete PC dress wasn't so bad after all.

Bob

Actually, would have been a whole lot safer if the fed regs would have required cleaning equipment with extension poles like painters used? that stuff on G's and cab units did not look "safe".

Chessieman:

You have a GG at the bottom of your post....in STEAM!

Locomotives of a carbody design - GG1's, E and F units, etc. - often featured safety appertunances added long after delivery by their builders. As shop forces became more familiar with equipment, they identified opportunities to ease maintenance and made enhancements to streamline their processes. As an example, CNJ added railings running lengthwise along the roof lines of its F3's to hang ladders when units were being shopped. These railings were sometimes mistaken by trackside observers as train communication devices ala PRR.

Bob

There is a brass GG1 kit on ebay right now. I apologize if this link is in violation of the rules. It's not my listing and I thought someone may be interested.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Unknown-Ma...&hash=item4aa1d13a9a

It is interesting to see the link. Certainly looks like an early Alexander as someone posted to the listing. Not sure if that incomplete a kit is worth that kind of money though. Thanks for sharing!