Sorting Out Lionel Control Systems: Conventional, LC, LC+, LC+ 2.0, TMCC, and Legacy (and some Bluetooth mixed throughout)

tncentrr posted:

Question; I have a layout that has the TMCC control system installed right now. I do not, at this time, have a smart phone at all. I have a regular "flip" phone. I desire to run the ET44AC with LC+ 2.0 shown of pages 82-83 of the latest catalog. What are my options? Can I,

A) Run it from my Cab-1 remote?

B) Purchase an LC universal remote.

C) Purchase a smart phone even though this is the only reason for getting it?

Thanks in advance for your help.

A thirty dollar track phone from Walmart, or any thirty dollar smart phone, should be enough tablet to run the Lionel app. I lack a Bluetooth engine, but it runs the DCS app well enough. They are cheaper than the tablets I looked at, easy to find, when not sold out, and you do not have to activate the phone half to use it as an Android tablet. I hope it helps.

tncentrr posted:

Question; I have a layout that has the TMCC control system installed right now. I do not, at this time, have a smart phone at all. I have a regular "flip" phone. I desire to run the ET44AC with LC+ 2.0 shown of pages 82-83 of the latest catalog. What are my options? Can I,

A) Run it from my Cab-1 remote?

B) Purchase an LC universal remote

C) Purchase a smart phone even though this is the only reason for getting it?

Thanks in advance for your help.

A. Yes

B. Yes

C. Yes, Smart phones are one option. You could also use an iPad tablet. Or android devices, although I don’t have experience with the app on those.

 I believe you could use an outdated iPhone or iPad (I.e. a few years old and not the newest latest greatest version).  You might ask family members if they have an old one they aren’t using.

D. You can also use it conventionally or with a legacy remote and base. From the sounds of it, you could also be able to use it with a DCS system like it’s a TMCC engine. 

tncentrr posted:

Question; I have a layout that has the TMCC control system installed right now. I do not, at this time, have a smart phone at all. I have a regular "flip" phone. I desire to run the ET44AC with LC+ 2.0 shown of pages 82-83 of the latest catalog. What are my options? Can I,

A) Run it from my Cab-1 remote?

B) Purchase an LC universal remote.

C) Purchase a smart phone even though this is the only reason for getting it?

Thanks in advance for your help.

All of the above.  I'll be running them from TMCC/Legacy I imagine, though I do have the LC Universal Remote for service reasons.  I also have a couple of smart phones and a tablet, but I don't routinely use those for running trains.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Tuning them to the Legacy speed curves is a nice touch.   I assume they'll still have to be the "lead" unit and the MU is configured in a TMCC configuration, right?

Do these have cruise control?

According to page 72:

Okay I might of missed this but anyway, I keep seeing that the LionChief+2.0 can be MU with a legacy engine, How about a TMCC engine? 

I am sure tempted to make a video about how all the control methods interact. Many need to see it in action to understand, and with effectively four major control set ups available right now, Conventional, TMCC/Legacy, DCS, Lionchief Remote/Bluetooth Basic and Plus, it is getting a bit confusing. Then I lack TMCC/Legacy, but it would be nice to see a video, or series of videos explaining each one, how they interact, and pros cons between each one.

rtraincollector posted:

Okay I might of missed this but anyway, I keep seeing that the LionChief+2.0 can be MU with a legacy engine, How about a TMCC engine? 

An excellent question.  If the speed profile has been optimized for Legacy, where does that leave TMCC?  If they had to consider it, obviously it's different from older TMCC models.

Allin posted:

I am sure tempted to make a video about how all the control methods interact.

Truthfully, a writeup with charts and the like would probably be more useful.

As a marketing guy- looks to me that:

- Lionel has been happy w/ sales, and profits of Lion Chief Starter sets, Lion Chief Plus, "themed" trains like Polar Express, Thomas etc., maybe they see appealing to a new market of younger train guys/gals?

- That they see adding TO the LC+ line as technology comes available- like BlueTooth, and added features such as lighted number boards or markers, etc. and

- adding those features is reasonable from a cost standpoint, and still allows a sub-$ 500 retail price point??

Maybe the original LC line's life is limited- maybe replaced w/ LC+ 2.0?  Even in Starter Sets?  I say this because very little is being added in the LC starter sets line.  

- It might be that, assuming the LC+ 2.0 sells at its price point...that LC+ 2.0 line might be increased and targeted to pick up all the TMCC guys, as well as the "traditional" guys, and get them back in the market buying new stuff??

Mike Wyatt posted:

As a marketing guy- looks to me that:

- Lionel has been happy w/ sales, and profits of Lion Chief Starter sets, Lion Chief Plus, "themed" trains like Polar Express, Thomas etc., maybe they see appealing to a new market of younger train guys/gals?

- That they see adding TO the LC+ line as technology comes available- like BlueTooth, and added features such as lighted number boards or markers, etc. and

- adding those features is reasonable from a cost standpoint, and still allows a sub-$ 500 retail price point??

Maybe the original LC line's life is limited- maybe replaced w/ LC+ 2.0?  Even in Starter Sets?  I say this because very little is being added in the LC starter sets line.  

- It might be that, assuming the LC+ 2.0 sells at its price point...that LC+ 2.0 line might be increased and targeted to pick up all the TMCC guys, as well as the "traditional" guys, and get them back in the market buying new stuff??

Actually they did ad stuff to sets and the availability of engines only in LC.   Im going to get the Southern engine at well under 200.00.  And the Southern Berkshire # 2716 in LC+2.0 at just under 500.00.    On the notch 6 podcast Ryan said 2018 was one of the best years they have had in a LONG time!

Jim

gunrunnerjohn posted:

rtraincollector posted:

Okay I might of missed this but anyway, I keep seeing that the LionChief+2.0 can be MU with a legacy engine, How about a TMCC engine? 

An excellent question.  If the speed profile has been optimized for Legacy, where does that leave TMCC?  If they had to consider it, obviously it's different from older TMCC models.

My thinking for this question, is that TMCC remote can operate it, so why couldn't you do a lash-up with a TMCC engine. 

As I see it, LionChief2.0 is similar to many of the available aftermarket wireless control systems. It's major advantage is that it comes installed in the engine which anyone who had done a conversion will tell you is a huge plus. Lionel is catching up with the highly sophisticated wireless aftermarket. Another way to look at LC2.0 is as the long term replacement for TMCC.

carsntrains posted:   On the notch 6 podcast Ryan said 2018 was one of the best years they have had in a LONG time!

Jim

They say that every year.

BOB WALKER posted:

As I see it, LionChief2.0 is similar to many of the available aftermarket wireless control systems. It's major advantage is that it comes installed in the engine which anyone who had done a conversion will tell you is a huge plus. Lionel is catching up with the highly sophisticated wireless aftermarket. Another way to look at LC2.0 is as the long term replacement for TMCC.

I also see LC+ 2.0 as a way for people with a Legacy system who may not always be interested in (or have the funds) to continually invest in the latest and greatest Legacy engines, to be able to have a lower cost alternative and still be able to run on their Legacy system without having to either invest in or bother with using a different control system.

The 2019 catalog has a checklist-type chart that shows features of all/most systems.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Allin posted:

I am sure tempted to make a video about how all the control methods interact.

Truthfully, a writeup with charts and the like would probably be more useful.

Very true, write up are easier to understand. Yet, many now are more video/image centric and don't read as much. That and it is a relief for many, like myself, to see things working together. Greek algebra had both the visual proof, the drawing, and the math proof to cover both ways of thinking, at least that is what comes to mind. That and it is far more fun to just watch trains in action, and to run them.

I love videos for their intended purpose, that being visual input.  However, for stuff like a comparison of features and the like, a printed table is MUCH more useful and concise.

I realize that many people are gravitating to video, but in many cases it's a massive time waster.  I could read about a topic in a fraction of the time that it takes many videos to present it.  Add to that that many people don't really understand how to do a good video presentation of a DIY project. 

For instance, just one example.  Watching someone do common jobs like remove the shell of a locomotive in excruciating detail for minutes is a total waste of time.  That can be described with a single picture and a couple of sentences.  Here's an example.

Remove the four screws denoted by the Body Screws label in the following graphic.  Carefully lift the boiler shell off the frame and disconnect the color coded plugs.

That is a TON more useful than watching five minutes of a video describing the same thing.

Oh, yeah. Then there is what i increasingly have run into, typos, or incomplete manuals. Took me months to figure out how to fix my DCS explorer because of poor labeling/typos in LUCI. I've run into missing oiling points, two versions of smoke fluid amounts to add in the same set, and other issues because of this. The thorough and well laid out diagram this post started with, or the one you shared, I rarely come across in official documentation, or English text books.