Southern RR Fans- PHOTOS

As steel Heavyweight cars began replacing wood on mainlines prior to WWI the Southern Ts 4-8-2 Mountain types replaced the light passenger Pacifics on the eastern Lines from Atlantia to Washington [both ways out of Spencer] and on the CNO&TP central lines both directions out of Chattanooga until the Ps-4s were built.

After arrival of Ps-4s the Ts and Ts-1s were shifted to Bristol-Memphis, Birmingham-Atlanta and other "hill climbs". All principal passenger trains out of Asheville were assigned 4-8-2s [home of#1491] including south over Saluda to Spartanburg and east through the Black Mountain "Loops" to Salisbury and Greensboro.

When passenger diesels became prevalent in the very early '50s via upgraded E6s, new E-7s as well as some continued use of F-3s equipped with steam generators; passenger steam power was scrapped or occasionally assigned to local freights. The engine "morgues" show a lot of Mountain type being scraped during 1950,51,52].

I recall snapshots of Ps-4s, including the streamlined "Tennessean", pulling local freight Spencer to Monroe, for example, but never saw evidence of a Mountain type heading freight. However it very likely occurred someplace on the Southern Ry.

Photo[painting] below of the Carolina Special [Ts-1] and Crescent[Ps-4] at Salisbury.

My family got my Lionel Southern GP30 for me for Christmas since this was the same locomotive I ran at Spencer,NC for my birthday. The MTH Kanawha and my pair of MTH Southern SD45's Welcome the newest member to the Southern fleet!!

Sean:

Congratulations on the GP30.  It's a winner!

Neal Jeter 

Enjoy the new engines - look nice.

Didn't see anything (Southern) in the new catalog to add to what I have. Still wishing for a set of E7s and the 18" Passenger cars that were deleted but are still in the shipping schedule. E7s at Union Station in Columbia S.C. 1952. Union Station is now the California Dreaming Restaurant.

I don't have any Southern O-gauge equipment, but I did ride the real thing several times. 

SC Shagger, I contacted Lionel several months ago about the 18" Southern Passenger cars that are still on the shipping schedule.  They confirmed that they are not making them and being replaced by 21" Southern Passenger Cars.  They said it was a mistake on the shipping schedule.

Very nice photo of Southern Engines in front of your Christmas Tree!  I used to live in Columbia and had dinner at the station several times.  Thanks for sharing the photos!

Did anyone purchase Lionel Legacy Southern Heavy Mikado and have photos or video of it?  I believe it recently shipped to dealers. 

After recently watching Eric’s review of the Lionel SRR TrainMaster, I finally purchased a new one today for about half its retail price. Overall, I am satisfied. I especially love the “shutter” vents.

Tyler,

That FM looks terrific. Lovely paint and excellent detail.

Personally, I'm looking forward to how the new MTH Premier Southern Mikados turn out when they (reportedly) will be out next month.

Mikado 4501 posted:

Tyler,

That FM looks terrific. Lovely paint and excellent detail.

 

Personally, I'm looking forward to how the new MTH Premier Southern Mikados turn out when they (reportedly) will be out next month.

I agree the FM looks very sharp!  Nice purchase, Tyler.

The MTH Southern Mikado should be interesting to see.  

Speaking about Mikados, has anyone seen or bought the New Lionel Legacy Heavy Southern Mikado?  I know it's not exactly prototypical but like to see some photos anyways.

Mikado 4501 posted:

Tyler,

That FM looks terrific. Lovely paint and excellent detail.

 

Personally, I'm looking forward to how the new MTH Premier Southern Mikados turn out when they (reportedly) will be out next month.

Me too.  Regarding the arrival time, I would not hold my breath.  I am also curious about Lionel's 630. 

kjstrains posted:

Mikado 4501 posted:

Tyler,

That FM looks terrific. Lovely paint and excellent detail.

 

Personally, I'm looking forward to how the new MTH Premier Southern Mikados turn out when they (reportedly) will be out next month.

I agree the FM looks very sharp!  Nice purchase, Tyler.

The MTH Southern Mikado should be interesting to see.  

Speaking about Mikados, has anyone seen or bought the New Lionel Legacy Heavy Southern Mikado?  I know it's not exactly prototypical but like to see some photos anyways.

Thank you, Kjstrains.  I have seen Lionel's 4866 in action, however, I did not purchase one.  It's a beautiful locomotive, but I reserved a 3rd Rail SRR E8 instead. 

Sharp looking engine - Eric does a good job on the reviews

The FM Train Master looks pretty good, but.  I am a bit surprised after the great job Lionel did with the Hi-Nose GP30's

that they missed a particular detail for the Souther FM Train Master.  The pilot decks were stepped down for the safety of the crews.

MTH did get this Southern detail correct.

Note different height in pilot deck of PRR at left vs. Southern at right.

Ron

   I  have two Southern Railway Ps-4  4-6-2 Weaver "Tennesseans" . I plan to eventually sell the one that has the T/A Studios upgrade to TMCC. The engine has the Limited Edition Certificate and has been run very little. I am certain the aged traction tires would probably last only briefly in running. I purchased this engine from "Purple Papa" at his store in Conway,S.C. near Myrtle Beach about 15 years ago. I paid $800 for the engine and about $190 for TMMC.

The engine is damaged via a partial crack in the rear of the cab roof in the bend where it turns up. An auto body friend placed epoxy in the crack and although the crack/epoxy is not obvious I had planned to repaint the roof [original flat black] but hand tremors have eliminated that. No cosmetic damage otherwise. The engine was dropped from knee high onto carpeted floor. [Eight years ago my son had it upside down in his lap oiling it and dropped it between his legs when his 3 year old raised up and cut her head on a glass table].

When ready to sell I will list on the OGR Buy/Sell Forum. Most folks probably consider T/A's upgrade obsolete although it functions perfectly from Cab 1. In addition there is likely a perceived damage discount from "elite" pricing levels mentioned on the Bay,etc.  In that regard pricing  won't be anywhere near $1,000. [but when listed on OGR 3 years ago at sub- $800 price I received zero response].

PRRronbh posted:

The FM Train Master looks pretty good, but.  I am a bit surprised after the great job Lionel did with the Hi-Nose GP30's

that they missed a particular detail for the Souther FM Train Master.  The pilot decks were stepped down for the safety of the crews.

MTH did get this Southern detail correct.

Note different height in pilot deck of PRR at left vs. Southern at right.

 

Ron

Yes, I agree.  Lionel outdid themselves in regards to the GP30's.  I originally purchased one SRR GP-30, but I loved it so much that I purchased the other road number.

Another thing that bothers me about Lionel's SRR FM, is the absence of the bell on the front of the loco. 

Also, after looking through the new 2016 catalog, I wish Lionel would have waited to make the SRR 21 inch passenger cars with the new "non-skirted" tooling unveiled in the new catalog. 

Lionel's 81181 Southern Railway Heavy Mikado

Lionlman posted:

Lionel's 81181 Southern Railway Heavy Mikado

Beautiful locomotive.  Congrats on the purchase.  Let's see a video, please.  Tyler

Neal, nice engine and photos.  Thanks for sharing.  

Lionel's 82238 Southern Railway Alco PAs

Lionlman posted:

Lionel's 81181 Southern Railway Heavy Mikado

Sure would like to see some images of the "Fireman's" side!

Ron

The new 21 inch passenger cars just arrived. The Soundstation dinners will arrive in a few months. Wish they were more prototypical, but they still look good.

Tyler, 

Your new passenger cars look great.  The trucks are nicely done along with the other details.  The new packaging looks good too.  Thanks for sharing the photos!  Ken

Very nice cars

Thanks for the kind words.  The new lighting system is really cool.  Can't wait for the 3rd Rail SRR E8 to arrive. 

Well since "LIONLMAN" did not post images of the Heavy Mikado fireman's side I will.

And also a tighter shot of the smoke box,

As a Southern fan would like a good representation of a Ms-4 Heavy Mikado.  And as we all should know the three-rail makers most probably will NOT invest 150/200K for die cast tooling for at best a few hundred sales.

My personal philosophy is not to spend $$$$ on motive power that is NOT Very, Very, Very close to prototype.  And it is Very to Very, Very close for cabin/cabooses.   As stated before Lionel did hit it out of the park with the Southern & N&W high-nose GP30s.

But this Mikado falls short.  But it could have been a contender.

First off 4866 has the more numerous Elesco water heaters on the top front of the smoke box.  Although 4866 had a Alligator guide and the split walkways as Lionel's model.

Now if Lionel would have researched they would have found that 4829 used the worthington heater, had Alligator guide and split walkway much like their model.  Also from the so so picture of 4829 I found, it appears that the worthington heater is mounted just below the walkway between the pump and cab.  So even If a Worthington heater could add as an add on, it would not look too bad.  Also the apparent add on turbine on top of the smoke-box in front of the stack should not be there but should be just in front of the cab fireman's side.

And of course the the quintessential Southern steam engine look is the slight lower than center headlight.  Also on the Lionel model the classlights should be moved more outward.  Now presuming that the smokebox front is an separate piece it could have been tooled for a modest price.

Now I for one would have been willing to pony up $100 to $150 more to make this model Very, Very + close.

 So disappointing, sure would like a Ms-4!

Ron

Another issue with Lionel's 4866 is the dynamo mounted just behind the bell. This should be located just in front of the cab.

The biggest problem with models of Southern steam is what they did at Spencer and other shops during the 1940s. As part of their rebuilding and modernizing steam locomotives, many had the walkways changed beside the smoke box, allowing easier access for the shop crews to do their work. The SRHA has documented this well in past issues of TIES magazine. You could tell the shop that serviced the locomotive by the design of the new steps and handrails. This Lionel model, even if totally correct for a Worthington Feeder locomotive, would still not by prototypically correct for the mid 1940s - early 50s era. The same modification was done to the PS-4s as well. I attached an image of the 1401 as she looks now, and notice the "high ladders" on the front. Compare to any model of Lionel or MTH and see the difference. This would have been done at Spencer shops.

Now, with some decals, detail parts and paint this can be turned into a very close model of a Ms-4, but with an $1100 cost I am not sure how many modelers would take that extra route. 

I have several good images of Southern Ms-4 locomotives at home on my laptop that I can upload if anyone wants to see the differences between model and in-service appearance.

Looks like MTH's new Premier Mikados, including both versions of the Southern 4501, are being pushed back from March to between July and October. Most say a July arrival, but some say October...

I purchased a print of this Howard Fogg Oil Painting from Saluda Mercantile after visiting Saluda and the steepest mainline grade east of the Mississippi and possibly in the country.

The original is far superior than my picture would indicate, truly a beautiful print.

I agree with Larry Neal regarding Lionel's model version of Southern's Ms-4 Mikado. Lionel didn't try very hard on this Southern workhorse--the Road's mainline freight engine for 30 years. Expensive mistake at $1100.

A friend of mine had a periodical that a gentleman wrote about the old Weed Line that ran from Alexandria Va to Harrisonburg Va.  The man worked the Weed Line and in his own words talked about his experiences.   I forget how many years he worked but it was some very interesting reading about working for the Southern Railroad.  My friend has misplaced his copy and I was wondering if anybody might have information as to where another copy could be found. 

Well a few weeks ago I ran across these images of a NS GP59 taken at a NS event at the NCTM.  Posted one on the week photo thread.  Posting all four with a story.

In 2000 I accepted a position as Quality Manager at a manufacturing plant adjacent to the NCDOT double mainline tracks through.  In fact shared office area on second floor over the QA testing lab.  We had two large picture windows overlooking that mainline only about 40-yards away.   Due to build shape only had a few degrees of view.  Was very hard not to spend time looking out.  One day recall looking out as train went by to see an Abraham M1A1 on a flat.  I tried to discipline myself not to look like I was paying too much attention to trains going by.  And one day from the corner of my eye I a green and white (imitation aluminum) engine go by.  Did not get a good look.  Asked train friends and found it was this 4610.  The Southern rides again!

Ron

Among my Southern Railway favorites are the three GP40X units built for the road in 1978. Here are all three together working a train in multiple:

Bob 

clinchfield bill posted:

A friend of mine had a periodical that a gentleman wrote about the old Weed Line that ran from Alexandria Va to Harrisonburg Va.  The man worked the Weed Line and in his own words talked about his experiences.   I forget how many years he worked but it was some very interesting reading about working for the Southern Railroad.  My friend has misplaced his copy and I was wondering if anybody might have information as to where another copy could be found. 

http://www.amazon.com/Southern...Hepler/dp/1883089638

Southern Ten-Wheeler, taken in or near Mobile, 1930's. These were used between Mobile and Selma. They were green and gold. Very shiny and snazzed-up, too, apparently.

Lionlman posted:

Williams custom painted U33C with high hood added



Williams custom painted SD-45 with high hood added



MTH custom painted GP-30 with high hood added



I have had the U33C and GP-30 converted to TMCC with Railsounds.

Neal Jeter

Just came across these. Great job! How hard was it to build the high hood? I want to do something similar to my Lionel SD40-2's.

I used a zona saw to remove the roof of the low hood.  I tried to use a Dremel cut off wheel but all it did was melt the plastic.  I built the high sides and nose with sheet styrene.  I then used super glue to attach the styrene to the roof and sides.  I then used auto body putty to fill in any gaps.  I then spray painted the entire engine flat black.  I used Microscale O scale Southern Railway decals.  After this I sprayed the entire engine with dullcote.  

Neal Jeter 

The firecracker antenna, and bell and bracket are O scale detail parts.  I don't remember if they were Keil, CalScale, or Precision Scale.  The ladder rungs are staples I bent and cut to size.  The headlights and number boards I saved from the engines and reused them.  

Neal Jeter 

Hello All!, Here is my latest addition to my layout!  MTH-Premier Southern PS-3 E-8 Diesel Engine #6900. I have a video and some pictures of my latest engine.................Rogerw.

Roger:

Thanks for sharing.

Neal Jeter

Roger,

Congrats on your new E8.  Did MTH update the trucks to the modern 3 axle arrangement with the blind axle in the middle instead of the inner most axle?  In other words, flange-blind-flange instead of B-F-F.  The older E8s I have are the latter and they derail constantly in switches.

Cheers,

Bryan 

Hello Bryan, The trucks are the same as previous editions of MTH-Premier E-8 Engines..............Rogerw.

Man,  that's  a really nice train Roger!

RidgeRunner posted:

Roger,

Congrats on your new E8.  Did MTH update the trucks to the modern 3 axle arrangement with the blind axle in the middle instead of the inner most axle?  In other words, flange-blind-flange instead of B-F-F.  The older E8s I have are the latter and they derail constantly in switches.

Cheers,

Bryan 

Hi Bryan,

Although this arrangement is not prototypical, it is functional in that long frame diesels can negotiate O-31.

I do not recall hearing of this problem so am curious.  What brand (manufacturer) of switch(s) and track is involve?  What diameter curves/switch(s)?  Are the switches and connected track the same brand?  What (by MTH item number) is/are the engine(s) involved?

As said just curious since hace not seen this type of problem and have several MTH engines with this arrangement.

Ron

PRRronbh posted:

RidgeRunner posted:

Roger,

Congrats on your new E8.  Did MTH update the trucks to the modern 3 axle arrangement with the blind axle in the middle instead of the inner most axle?  In other words, flange-blind-flange instead of B-F-F.  The older E8s I have are the latter and they derail constantly in switches.

Cheers,

Bryan 

Hi Bryan,

Although this arrangement is not prototypical, it is functional in that long frame diesels can negotiate O-31.

I do not recall hearing of this problem so am curious.  What brand (manufacturer) of switch(s) and track is involve?  What diameter curves/switch(s)?  Are the switches and connected track the same brand?  What (by MTH item number) is/are the engine(s) involved?

As said just curious since hace not seen this type of problem and have several MTH engines with this arrangement.

Ron

Hi Ron,

Yep, I already recognize and agree as to the O-31 functionality.  To your question, O-72 MTH Realtrax and Lionel Fastback turnouts.

Previous detailed discussion is here where others reported the same issue I've had in ABA configuration.  It's nice MTH sells the A units singly now and without the tether.  It's sad to have to leave the old BA units in the box because they don't play nice together with the lead A. 

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...63#36484918432457163

Bryan

c.sam posted:

Man,  that's  a really nice train Roger!

Thanks c.sam!

That is a nice engine.

That new train inspired me to post something from my family history.  This is from my Mother's collection.  My Grandfather worked for Southern out of Chattanooga as a fireman. As they transitioned from steam to diesel,  this was the only training he got on the new technology.  An instruction manual for his new assignment,  the EMC FTA #6100.  One day I would like to get a model of that train. 

 

Yep, I already recognize and agree as to the O-31 functionality.  To your question, O-72 MTH Realtrax and Lionel Fastback turnouts.

Previous detailed discussion is here where others reported the same issue I've had in ABA configuration.  It's nice MTH sells the A units singly now and without the tether.  It's sad to have to leave the old BA units in the box because they don't play nice together with the lead A. 

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...63#36484918432457163

Bryan

Hi Bryan,

Just got to ask how did/do you mate the two dissimilar track types and get a smooth transition?  Especially since the FasTrack rail ends are NOT even?

Ron

PRRronbh posted:

 

Yep, I already recognize and agree as to the O-31 functionality.  To your question, O-72 MTH Realtrax and Lionel Fastback turnouts.

Previous detailed discussion is here where others reported the same issue I've had in ABA configuration.  It's nice MTH sells the A units singly now and without the tether.  It's sad to have to leave the old BA units in the box because they don't play nice together with the lead A. 

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...63#36484918432457163

Bryan

Hi Bryan,

Just got to ask how did/do you mate the two dissimilar track types and get a smooth transition?  Especially since the FasTrack rail ends are NOT even?

Ron

Ron,

I don't mix track.  I have Realtrax (for now).  Friends have Fastrack.  The problem occurs on both O-72 switch types.  Thanks for the discussion but I don't want to hijack the thread away from Roger's posting of his SR E8 acquisition.  He was kind enough to answer my question.

All the best,

Bryan

Hello All, These photos are for clarification on the MTH-Premier Southern E-8 Diesel engine. The engines from left to right are:

MTH-Premier Southern E-8 (2002) Left

MTH-Premier Southern E-8 (2010) Middle

MTH-Premier Southern E-8 (2016) Right

There is also 2 pictures showing Southern E-8 Engine# 6900 with ditch lights....................RogerW.

Those Southern's have a beautiful paint scheme. They're a great looking diesel.

I must resist!

Contemporary survivors!

Ron

Roger, does the 2002 model have a MARS light?

Nice line-up!   (Notice I didn't say lash-up )

Hey C.Sam, the engine on the left side of my picture above is the 1st release of the Southern ABA PS-2 (5 volt battery) diesel engine set. It has the Mars light and a headlight...............rogerw.

Great work folks. 

I received an invoice from Brian at Legacy Station today.  The Lionel Southern StationSounds diner and the Lionel Legacy Southern GP9s are shipping.

Neal Jeter 

Southern Railway StationSounds dining car.  It has announcements for the Southerner.

Neal Jeter

Lionel Legacy Southern Railway GP9s.

Neal Jeter 

Nice photos Neal.  Can you share a video of the sounds of the Station sounds car?  

May take a couple of days, but I will try to post a video of the sounds. 

Neal Jeter

This video is a little over seven minutes long.  Some of the sounds are out of sequence but you get the idea of what sounds the dining car has.  Also to keep the car in the video I had to move the camera so it is shaky in some spots. 

Neal, thanks for sharing the video.  The sound and dialog on station sounds car sound great!  

What would you think of a Vanderbilt tender behind the Southern 4-8-2 #1491:

Just kidding, don't shoot!!!

I'm in the process of converting this Lionel engine to a Seaboard Mountain with Vandy tender.  Still have a loooong way to go and then I have to rework some of the boiler accoutrements (sand dome, part of the running board, bell)!!!

I think it looks great, did Southern ever have any Vanderbilt tenders???

In 1942 Southern acquired from the Erie seven 2-8-2s that had Vanderbilt tenders.  They were numbered 6630-6636 and were rebuilt at the Finlay Shops.  This information comes from the Southern Steam Power book by Harold Ranks and Shelby Lowe.

Neal Jeter

Lionel's Southern Railway Alco PAs and 21" passenger cars.

In the TMCC section of the forum, I'm upgrading my 4501 Mikado made by Lionel 24 years ago. It's not done yet, but just enough that I could get this shot outdoors.

I guess there are some perks of not having a permanent layout. And it's cool what you can do with a little PhotoShopping.

BTW, look closely, and you'll see that I've painted the cowcatcher rim and the edges of the pilot to make the engine look much more like the prototype was when it was painted green.

Thanks Neal!  I forgot I had Prince's book on the Southern, there's a photo of ex-Erie 6630 on page 112.