UP 4014 Restoration/844 Trip

Yesterday August 20, 2016, to help with my learning more about the Union Pacific Steam Shop Program, 844 and 4014, I went out to watch the Pere Marquette Berkshire / 2-8-4 run on the main line in Howell , Michigan.

I learned about there restoration and maintenance programs and of course I asked questions about the Union Pacific Steam Shop, restoration projects, 844 & 4014. The 1225 steam shop is located in Owosso, Michigan.  That would be about 75 miles north of my train room.

As the UP 4014 project progresses, I plan on hanging out at the 1225 Round House to see what I can learn about steam restoration. You can read books, watch videos, but for myself, I feel the Round House in Owosso will be one more great source for information.

Click here, Michigan Steam Train  /  Below are two photos to help tell my story about steam power as related to the UP 844 & 4014.

Gary - Railfan

R. Hales posted:

I was not aware of any controversy  surrounding the restoration of Big Boy 4014 until today.  I am actually quite shocked to read this thread.

How can any train guy not want to see this marvelous engine moving under it's own power?  Regardless of who you like or dislike?  Regardless of which railroad it comes from?  Regardless of whether you think it is ugly or not?  Or that Challenger 3985 is better looking?  Just a few days ago I sent a picture of an operating Heisler engine to a friend of mine and commented that "I love this engine because it is so **** ugly".  I love trains!  Just two weeks ago, I took my youngest grandson to see Big Boy 4005.  He liked it.

I am also optimistic that UP will not abandon the operation of 3985.  And I look forward to the possibility of seeing three of the largest steam engines in the world operating out of the same barn.

To you guys working on 4014, I congratulate you on what you are doing and wish you the best!

Mr. Hales, you have done a magnificent job telling it like it is sir......And I commend you!......................Brandy! 

Goshawk posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

If the 4014 just happens to be crossing York Road in Elmhurst one fine day, I'll be more than glad to pull out my cell phone an snap a picture of it, but personally I'm quite happy with the Pentrex video's of when the Big Boys did the REAL work they were designed for.

Rusty

I grew up in the Chicago area, and your comment just reminded of a certain Chevy dealer at the corner of York and Roosevelt Rd.

Celozzi-Ettleson Chevrolet was I think on RT 83 and Roosevelt. "Where you always save more money".

i don't know if 4014 would fit on the Proviso turntable. Where would they turn that thing anywhere out this way? Wasn't there a story of 611 hitting something on CNW bridges in Chicago. Can 4014 run this far east?

I believe the incident with the 611 occurred on the IHB when a crosshead guide yoke struck a bridge support, but that was back in the early 80's so I don't know what if anything has changed.

Tranz4mr posted:

If it's easily removed I guess they arrange to swap it with a different one. If not they have a lot of grinding and welding to do. 

Boy you aren't kidding...what a job. 

trainroomgary posted:

Yesterday August 20, 2016, to help with my learning more about the Union Pacific Steam Shop Program, 844 and 4014, I went out to watch the Pere Marquette Berkshire / 2-8-4 run on the main line in Howell , Michigan.

I learned about there restoration and maintenance programs and of course I asked questions about the Union Pacific Steam Shop, restoration projects, 844 & 4014. The 1225 steam shop is located in Owosso, Michigan.  That would be about 75 miles north of my train room.

As the UP 4014 project progresses, I plan on hanging out at the 1225 Round House to see what I can learn about steam restoration. You can read books, watch videos, but for myself, I feel the Round House in Owosso will be one more great source for information.

Click here, Michigan Steam Train  /  Below are two photos to help tell my story about steam power as related to the UP 844 & 4014.

Gary - Railfan

Ha I'm in the first photo. Furthest to the left in the hat. Glad you came out! And I encourage anyone to visit a local or preferred railmuseam to learn more about how machines like this operate. Sure there are drastic differnences but it helps to have a better appreciation and understanding of steam locomotives and the work that goes into them.

The Bellcaptain posted:

 

 Ha I'm in the first photo. Furthest to the left in the hat. Glad you came out! And I encourage anyone to visit a local or preferred railmuseam to learn more about how machines like this operate. Sure there are drastic differnences but it helps to have a better appreciation and understanding of steam locomotives and the work that goes into them.

Hi Bellcaptain / Thanks for the tips  on the Steam Railroading Institute / This video will show what I have been up too. As we wait for the next U.P. update. Play time five minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZt83PevSyM

KEY FACTS

01:02 Drive Wheel Diameter 69 inches

01:52 Uses 150 gallons of water per mile

01:58 Holds 22,000 gallons of water per mile

02:04 Holds 22 tons of coal

02:55 Steam shop is at Owosso, Michigan

03:04 Uses 1 ton of coal every 12 miles

04:20 Great Lake Central Railroad, Diesel Helper

04:28 Steam Railroading Institute

Thanks: Gary, railfanning in Michigan

Steam Update: Big Boy Progress No. 4014, and ’Trek to Tennessee' Preparation by Union Pacific Steamshop Manager, Ed Dickens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...ature=em-uploademail

Published on Oct 12, 2016 - On YT - Play time: One minute, 34 seconds.

Ed Dickens, Union Pacific senior manager - heritage operations, discusses progress on the restoration of the Big Boy, locomotive No. 4014, and what's involved in preparing for locomotive No. 844's trip to Memphis, Tennessee.

Gary - Railfan

The Union Pacific No. 844 is on it’s trek to Tennessee,  This was filmed today, Oct 13, 2016. One hour out of Cheyenne, Wyoming.

You Tube: Play Time is; 23 seconds. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...ature=em-uploademail

Cool video. Thanks TRG. 

Great shot !!  Hope there is more posted.

What was the last car on the train?  HEP power car?

trainroomgary posted:

The Union Pacific No. 844 is on it’s trek to Tennessee,  This was filmed today, Oct 13, 2016. One hour out of Cheyenne, Wyoming.

You Tube: Play Time is; 23 seconds. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...ature=em-uploademail

Are we sure this isn't CGI or a model on a layout?  I'm pretty sure we were told that this wouldn't happen.

I'm glad the naysayers were wrong.

Well that is the longest train 844 has pulled unassisted since 2010 

Dominic Mazoch posted:

What was the last car on the train?  HEP power car?

That is the Bunk Car from the rotary snow plow equipment. Maybe they eat & sleep in it.

Gary,

      Thanks for the video.  I learned yesterday, the 13th, of 844 getting underway to the Big River Crossing in Memphis.  There will be the opening of the "Big River Crossing" on Oct. 22 in Memphis, Tenn. and 844 will be on a planned 19 day round-trip running.  After spending a layover in Van Buren, Ark. the night of Oct. 25th on the return trip, she will run West/North through Oklahoma with scheduled brief stops in Sallisaw on the 26th, then on to Kansas with stops in Wagoner, Claremore and Nowata, Oklahoma.  Not bad for a 72 year old, after 3 years of restoration, and proof of the power of yesterday's steam power. 

  I was fortunate to see 3985 on excursion through the Chicago area in 2002.  They had to run her up to Milwaukee and use the wye "up there" for turning her around and also witnessed/taped the return trip on the next day.  OK... so where have I put that CD of 3985 run through the North Illinois area????   My wife and I are considering the 3 hr. drive to Sallisaw on the 26th and I plan to record that visit, and hopefully some of her running.  Now for getting footage of 4012 when she, also, is back on the rails and strutting her stuff.

Again, Gary, thanks for the information and video.

Jesse    TCA  12-68275 

Thanks for the video.. brings a little smile to me.   Sometimes you can tell who's running the engine by the whistle.  I don't think it was Ed Dickens but the video was very brief.

I'm not even a fan of UP, and that brings tears to my eyes.............

The more locomotives under steam, the better!

Barring any problems at home or work, I'll be waiting on 844 at a convenient spot south of Durand, KS on 10-27. Will be the 7th time to see this engine and the first time since October of 2012.

There is no plan for the 4012 at steamtown to be rebuilt. Being outside and not taken care of all these years will doom it to scrap if not taken care of. 

The main rods were also cut in half. 

david1 posted:

There is no plan for the 4012 at steamtown to be rebuilt. Being outside and not taken care of all these years will doom it to scrap if not taken care of. 

The main rods were also cut in half. 

Are you sure you don't mean the piston rods were cut?

Day 2 • Today, October 14th, 2016 • The 844 stops at Gibbon, Nebraska on it’s was to Tennessee.                                   On YT - Play time; 3 minute & 22 seconds.  Enjoy.

Gary - Railfain

Gregg posted:

Thanks for the video.. brings a little smile to me.   Sometimes you can tell who's running the engine by the whistle.  I don't think it was Ed Dickens but the video was very brief.

Yes that was Ed.  

N&W Class J posted:

Gregg posted:

Thanks for the video.. brings a little smile to me.   Sometimes you can tell who's running the engine by the whistle.  I don't think it was Ed Dickens but the video was very brief.

Yes that was Ed.  

Correct. Nobody, but NOBODY, operates 844 except the current manager.

Hot Water posted:

N&W Class J posted:

Gregg posted:

Thanks for the video.. brings a little smile to me.   Sometimes you can tell who's running the engine by the whistle.  I don't think it was Ed Dickens but the video was very brief.

Yes that was Ed.  

Correct. Nobody, but NOBODY, operates 844 except the current manager.

I don't believe you and I don't really care one way or the other.

Gregg posted:

Hot Water posted:

N&W Class J posted:

Gregg posted:

Thanks for the video.. brings a little smile to me.   Sometimes you can tell who's running the engine by the whistle.  I don't think it was Ed Dickens but the video was very brief.

Yes that was Ed.  

Correct. Nobody, but NOBODY, operates 844 except the current manager.

I don't believe you and I don't really care one way or the other.

Believe it! Ever since his Fireman, Ted, was running and forgot the MU'ed diesel was still in throttle 6/7 while he was trying to stop, and wound up flattening all the drive wheels, nobody but NOBODY runs 844.

Hot Water posted:

Gregg posted:

Hot Water posted:

N&W Class J posted:

Gregg posted:

Thanks for the video.. brings a little smile to me.   Sometimes you can tell who's running the engine by the whistle.  I don't think it was Ed Dickens but the video was very brief.

Yes that was Ed.  

Correct. Nobody, but NOBODY, operates 844 except the current manager.

I don't believe you and I don't really care one way or the other.

Believe it! Ever since his Fireman, Ted, was running and forgot the MU'ed diesel was still in throttle 6/7 while he was trying to stop, and wound up flattening all the drive wheels, nobody but NOBODY runs 844.

1.  Was that disaster with UP 1982 near Austin TX?

2.  But how can you train new people to tun her if only one person is always in 

Hot Water posted:

Gregg posted:

Hot Water posted:

N&W Class J posted:

Gregg posted:

Thanks for the video.. brings a little smile to me.   Sometimes you can tell who's running the engine by the whistle.  I don't think it was Ed Dickens but the video was very brief.

Yes that was Ed.  

Correct. Nobody, but NOBODY, operates 844 except the current manager.

I don't believe you and I don't really care one way or the other.

Believe it! Ever since his Fireman, Ted, was running and forgot the MU'ed diesel was still in throttle 6/7 while he was trying to stop, and wound up flattening all the drive wheels, nobody but NOBODY runs 844.

1.  Was that disaster with UP 1982 near Austin TX?

2.  But how can you train new people to tun her if only one person is always in the right seat?

OK..... do not know if it was a slip of the finger or the mind... or both.  YES it is 4014 as everybody knows.  May have been sub-thinking of the BB I have, as many do, #4012, and that transposed to the fingers and keys...........

I am just glad to be witness to the great restoration and running of such wonderful, excellent examples of solid technology.  Not simply tech outdated in one year and dependent upon software not messing it up.  Just as we still enjoy getting our hands greasy and glowing in the light of hearing the rumble and roar when the throttle is pressed.  And AWAY we GO !!!!!!!

Jesse     TCA   12-68275

Hot Water posted:

david1 posted:

There is no plan for the 4012 at steamtown to be rebuilt. Being outside and not taken care of all these years will doom it to scrap if not taken care of. 

The main rods were also cut in half. 

Are you sure you don't mean the piston rods were cut?

 The last time I was there about 7 years ago I do believe it was the main rods that

were the ones cut. 

david1 posted:

Hot Water posted:

david1 posted:

There is no plan for the 4012 at steamtown to be rebuilt. Being outside and not taken care of all these years will doom it to scrap if not taken care of. 

The main rods were also cut in half. 

Are you sure you don't mean the piston rods were cut?

 The last time I was there about 7 years ago I do believe it was the main rods that

were the ones cut. 

 

Well, probably not. The standard practice on UP was to cut the piston rods, on steam locomotives being donated. But simply cutting the piston rods, the running gear was still "in balance", thus could be towed dead at fairly reasonable speeds. If the main rods had been cot, the the running gear would have been seriously out of rotational balance, and could have only been towed at pretty slow speeds.

david1 posted:

Hot Water posted:

david1 posted:

There is no plan for the 4012 at steamtown to be rebuilt. Being outside and not taken care of all these years will doom it to scrap if not taken care of. 

The main rods were also cut in half. 

Are you sure you don't mean the piston rods were cut?

 The last time I was there about 7 years ago I do believe it was the main rods that

were the ones cut. 

 

The main rods look intact to me.  However, the piston rods and crosshead links are gone.

Rusty

Why would anyone cut the rods ?? To move it?  Were they frozen ?  Stupid.

jim pastorius posted:

Why would anyone cut the rods ?? To move it?  Were they frozen ?  Stupid.

Look at the photo, posted above. The main rods are NOT cut, just the piston rods are gone.

I talked to a buddy of mine who lives about five minutes from steamtown and he confirmed that it is the piston rods that were missing. The main rods are intact. 

Sorry for the misinformation. 

jim pastorius posted:

Why would anyone cut the rods ?? To move it?  Were they frozen ?  Stupid.

I'm Surprised Hotwater didn't answer this one, it wasn't "Stupid" to cut the piston rods, they were cut because moving a steam locomotive dead will cause damage moving it with dry cylinders.

 Even running down a long downhill grade, some throttle needs to be used to keep some steam flowing to lubricate the cylinders.

Doug

I am not a railroader but have read a lot about steam engines and realize the pistons and rods need lubed  when they are moving.  If they didn't have a functioning lube system I thought they would disconnect the rods.  Too much work ??

jim pastorius posted:

Why would anyone cut the rods ?? To move it?  Were they frozen ?  Stupid.

challenger3980 posted:

I'm Surprised Hotwater didn't answer this one, it wasn't "Stupid" to cut the piston rods, they were cut because moving a steam locomotive dead will cause damage moving it with dry cylinders.

Hot Water posted:

Look at the photo, posted above. The main rods are NOT cut, just the piston rods are gone.

Nobody cut anything! Good grief!

The pistons and the piston rods were REMOVED from the Steamtown Big Boy years ago. This was done so they could move it without damaging the dry, un-lubed cylinders.

I think we could use a dose of common sense here...wow.

OK. Then that puts to rest the "they cut the rods"  myth that has circulated a loonnngg time!  Thanks. I bought your magazine today at my LHS !!

jim pastorius posted:

OK. Then that puts to rest the "they cut the rods"  myth that has circulated a loonnngg time!  Thanks. I bought your magazine today at my LHS !!

Well, that only puts to rest that rumor for the Steam Town 4012. There are many other UP steam locomotives on display around the U.S. with the piston rods cut.