v5 of My Layout Plans, Still Not Happy - Now on v27 and still going

sinclair

How big is the entrance to layout near the desk?

How close is layout to back door.

Is there anything that might have to be brought in or taken out from back door?

How big is turntable?

I personally like this v_12 the best so far.

Bad part is if passenger station has cars in it no way for a locomotive to come out anyway to put a switch at far end of passenger area for engines to enter or leave from turntable area?

$oo

HOW ABOUT AN ELEVATOR? HIDE IT IN A TUNNEL, PULL THE ENTIRE TRAIN ONTO THE TRACK, MAYBE 8' LONG OR SO, PRESS BUTTON, ENTIRE TRACK LOWERS TO ALIGN WTH TRACK ON LOWER LEVEL, AND THEN POPS OUT OF TUNNEL PORTAL LIKE MAGIC! IM TOTALLY SERIOUS! ELIMINATES A LONG GRADE. ELEVATOR WOULD HAVE TWO "FLOORS". WHEN IN "UP" POSITION YOU CAN RUN UPPER AND LOWER TRAINS AS NORMAL. PULL TRAIN ONTO LIFT AND RAISE OR LOWER TO OTHER TRACK AND CONTINUE ON ITS WAY. IT REALLY WOULDNT BE DIFFICULT TO PRODUCE, AND THE RESULTS WOULD BE ASTOUNDING. IM GOING TO PUT THIS IDEA ONTO PAPER TOMMOROW. ILL LET YOU KNOW!

 A THOUGHT FOR YOU. A TRANSFER TABLE MAY BE A BETTER ALTERNATIVE TO A TURTABLE. SAVES SPACE, COST EFFECTIVE AND WEATHERS REALISTICLY. MY FRIEND HAS LIONEL VERSION AND ITS ALOT OF FUN. GOOGLE IT!          OOOOOOPS, NOT AS COST EFFECTIVE AS I THOUGHT. $225.00 PLUS $75.00 FOR AN EXTENSION , ON EBAY. OH WELL- MAKE YOUR OWN!

I agree with Clifford.  My only suggestion is to try to get the lower level out in the open a little more.  I don't like the train in a tunnel for too long, unless you are going to park it for a later run.  This is just my opinion, I just visited a superb layout Saturday that has a lot of hidden track.  Also, I agree with John that the ability to see it in 3D is a real nice feature with modern software,

CLIFFORD...

 

HOW ABOUT AN ELEVATOR? HIDE IT IN A TUNNEL, PULL THE ENTIRE TRAIN ONTO THE TRACK, MAYBE 8' LONG OR SO, PRESS BUTTON, ENTIRE TRACK LOWERS TO ALIGN WTH TRACK ON LOWER LEVEL, AND THEN POPS OUT OF TUNNEL PORTAL LIKE MAGIC! IM TOTALLY SERIOUS!

 

you are right a straight section of track could be made to go up and down need 1 motor and 2 drawer glides  one each end and a center guide to keep things solid poof instant train.

 

hey if the misty mountain can raise and lower that 6' bridge anything is possible!

 

$oo

The TT is the Atlas one, so whatever size it is.  There is almost 16" between the loops to allow you to the center of the layout.  There is 22" between the top of the loop and the wall the back door is in.  The laundry is back there, so that may be a problem for my wife to get the basket in and out.

 

As for leaving the TT, if there is a train at the station, locomotives can leave from the other leg that goes to the loop as the TT has two leading legs to it.  But I think I have 3 locomotives that are too big for the TT anyway (K-line Big Boy [K3790-4015S] and Allegheny[K3715-1601S], and a MTH Cab Forward [30-1144-1]).  I just kinda threw it in for something else to play with that'd maybe help me expand my ideas.  I've never really cared for transfer tables as I'll have mostly big steam running and the table is too small.

 

I'm not sure I want to tackle a 12' lift track.  v6_3 is still in the running, and that'll have a 4-5' lift section that I'd want to do first so as to allow you in and out of the room.

 

As for thinking in 3D, I always do, But I'm still not sure if I want a multi-level layout, so I go back and forth between yes and no.  Not to toot my own horn, but I have always had a very good 3D spacial thought process.  It's part of the reason I went into mechanical engineering.  Plus it really helped me in playing some games when they first introduced true none planer playing areas.

DEAR $OO LINE, IVE BEEN TINKERING WITH THIS ELEVATOR IDEA TODAY. YOUR SUGGESTION OF USING DRAWER SLIDES IS BRILLIANT. THE FIRST DESIGN WILL UTILIZE 4 DRAWER GLIDES TO STRADDLE THE TWO LEVELS REQUIRED FOR THE LIFT. IT WILL HAVE A STOP, WHEN IN THE RAISED POSITION, AND A STOP WHEN IN THE LOWERED POSITION. I DREW A COUPLE OF SKETCHES AND THE MECHANICS WILL WORK FLAWLESSLY. A SIMPLE MOTOR WITH A CABLE OR SCREW DRIVE USING A LIMIT SWITCH AT EITHER STOP LOCATION COULD BE USED. I HAVE MOST OF THE ITEMS ON HAND, AND I WILL BUILD A PROTOTYPE THIS WEEK!

Clifford, take lots of photos and take lots of notes on the work and post it here in a new thread just on the subject, I'd put it under this same subforum, layout design.  I'm sure there will be many here that'd love to follow your progress and want to try it themselves.  Maybe once you have it done, OGR would like you to submit an article for the mag about it.

SINCLAIR, THATS WHAT I AM GOING TO DO! I HAVE ALREADY GOTTEN SOME OF THE MATERIALS TOGETHER, AND I WILL DOCUMENT MY PROGRESS. PERSONALLY IM QUITE EXCITED ABOUT THIS PROJECT.

CLIFFORD....
I used the heavy duty drawer glides on a  bridge to lift it up so I could duck less in old age LOL.
Will look forward to seeing how your elevator works out.
$oo

Another update on designing.  In messing around, I realized that I could stay away from the bottom left corner and came up with something else.  It was inspired by another thread about L-shaped layouts, and I really liked this one, so I upsized it from O31 to O45/54 curves.

 

It is smaller than most of the others, and doesn't have the curves for the BB.  I have thought about doing a "ceiling" layout, and my brother in law asked me if I was going to put trains through the house when I bought it, so maybe getting the BB will "force" the issue and I'll get around to the through the house ceiling layout which will run the BB, up away from the little hands of the kids, and away from the paws of the cats.  But everything else I own will run on this just fine.  I can run 3 trains at once, and do some switching too.  This will give me a more toy like layout that I really want.

 

But this hasn't stopped me from still wanting a O72 loop.  Here is the latest O72 plan, but it also doesn't feel right.

 

It has a massive yard for sure, but things just seem to squished and haphazardly placed in the oval for operations, and you can only run one train at once.

 

That back door is just really placed in the most inconvenient spot for trying to plan a layout.

Before you invest thousands into a layout, can the door be moved? Can the door swing outward? Or why not build display shelves instead of having a large yard. Put your trains on the wall, and take them down when you wish to run them. The walk-in L- shape is still the best fit for the space allotted. Think about it!

The door can't be moved, it's all block and it'll cost more than the layout will.  Having an outside door swing outwards is never good as the hinges are now on the outside and pulling the pins will allow the door to be opened without unlocking it.  That and there is a screen door on the outside.  And there will be plenty of display shelves, I have a ton of HO, N, and S to go up, as well as my wife wanting places for her nicknacks.  As for format, I do like a L or U/C format, but I'm still toying around as it doesn't cost anything to keep upping the version of my plans.  Maybe I'll get to triple digits before I'm ready to buy the wood and nails.  I kind of figure that I'll have a bunch of plans, show them to my wife and she'll come up with something better in one shot.  She's smart like that.

sinclair.... door can be reversed and secured how????  You drill 3 - 3/4"holes evenly spaced on door frame and door same side as hinges.
now get some 3/4" round metal stock and make it 2-3" long into those pre drilled holes. now when hinge pins are pulled out to gain entry no way as those 3 pins made to be 2-3" long go into door frame and door no way is it coming open by removing the door hinge pins.
As to block home and doorway if your a handy fella you can create new doorway and if careful use removed block for new doorway to fill in old doorway.

I kinda did same at my home except I was lucky a 3' wide window 16" away from doorway it was a no brainer.
food for thought.

$oo

Sinclair,

 

I may have said this before, and, if so, I apologize.  BUT, grades above 4% in the model world will rarely work well (older engines with magne-traction might be the exception) if you expect your engine to actually pull something.  This is even more the case when the climb will also be on a curve because you have both the curve and the climb creating drag on your engine.  Most modelers that I know try to keep as far below 4% as possible.

 

Good luck,

Chuck

Keep grades to max of 3PERCENT! anything more and you will be sorry! Remember lower the crossover height to 1/4" more than  the tallest piece of equipment you run! 5 and 1/4" is about as low as can be from top af rail to bottom of bridge. Scale doublestacks may require more room! Also the track can dip slightly as it approaches the overhead, it should be subtle, not a ditch. This may give you extra clearance.

I know most don't like the look over 3%, but I do have Lionel's over/under trestle set for FasTrack and that make a 5% grade with O36 track, and all the locomotives I had at the time I got it could pull a train up it.  I have since learned that my longer locomotives can't do it because of length, not strength, but with O63 curves I wasn't worried.  But like I said, this is still very fluid and probably won't be the plan I go with.  And before I actually build I will test with a temporary setup on the ground to make sure my locomotives can handle the grade I go with with curves and desired length train.

I really like the V12 plan, thanks for posting the SCARM file on that one. I eventually want to move my layout into the garage though my absolute maximum size would be 9'x18' and even then I'd really on want part of it to be 9'. I'm going to see if I can shrink it down and also convert it to FasTrack which I have quite a bit of (maybe do one level FasTrack and the rest Atlas). I really like how you worked in the reversing leg on the upper level. Also a fan of walk-in style layouts and layouts that avoid the bullseye effect of perefect concentric loops. On my 5x10 layout I broke things up by having one side of the outer loop using O36 curves and the other side using a mix of O36/O72 curves. I also don't have my inner loop perfectly centered inside the outer loop. 

 

As for grades, I think 3% is being conservative unless your pulling a long train. I wouldn't go more than 4% myself and would try for less if possible. You have enough room that you should be able to keep it under 4%. Yes, the engine can probably do 5% but I suspect it wouldn't be good for the long term health of the engine. 

The attachment provides more info about engines, trains, curves and grades.  I "borrowed" all of this info from another forum post and put it in a word file in case the post and/or poster disappear.  Hope you find it useful.

 

Chuck

I do like it too, but I think it's more than I want for my 1st big layout.  I'm not ready yet for a realistic layout.  I'm still messing around, but I think it'll be a version of v6 in the end as it gives me the longest mainline possible in the least space.  Some don't like long straights, but I do.  And it'll be a good experience too.  I did take the comment about foaling the yard lead if a passenger train was at the station and made a change, as seen below.  But I did figure out that the yard is deep enough to make getting to the wall mounted AC unit, which will be an issue in the summer here (110+ is normal).