@Mark Boyce posted:

Bob, it’s looking great!  I have a there engines I want to do similarly, 2 MTH RS3 and a Weaver RS3.

Well this is a Weaver so you have a good tutorial....

The newer MTH have the body sides up to full height so they just need figures inserted.

Thanks Mark.

Looks great Bob, and its amazing how you were able to find twins to work together! LOL I am glad everything is fitting in!

@mike g. posted:

Looks great Bob, and its amazing how you were able to find twins to work together! LOL I am glad everything is fitting in!

They've been called into the yard masters office on more than one occasion for conduct unbecoming a train crew......

@RSJB18 posted:

Well this is a Weaver so you have a good tutorial....

The newer MTH have the body sides up to full height so they just need figures inserted.

Thanks Mark.

Bob, yes you are doing a great tutorial for my Weaver RS3!  😃 Thank you!!

I agree, both MTH RS3’s have full height body sides with the cab just plopped on.  One is a newer PS3 and the other is a PS2.  There are slight differences with the body and cab windows, but the area we are concerned with looks the same.

This may be a little off topic but, my Peanuts Halloween locomotive & Lionchief Thomas are currently being fixed up by a man named J.D Lathbury in Atlanta, GA. Both of them got their PCBs fried in early 2020.

I hope to get both of them back by the time "Spooky Season" comes back around.

Kyle - A Fellow "Rail-Nerd"

Kyle, I'm sorry both engines' boards were fried.  Did you figure out what caused it; track wiring, not having surge protectors on an old transformer?  That brings up the question, what were you using for track power?  I have not heard of JD, but I live in Northwestern Pennsylvania, so he is quite a ways away from me.

Well Mr Mark, the story goes a little like this. Back in 2019, I bought a Lionel 275 Watt ZW at a local Christmas train show to replace my Lionel CW-80 (Which had recently died on me). It worked fine until it fried the boards of 2 out of the 3 Lionchief locomotives that I mentioned above. I haven't used it ever since that fateful day & I plan on selling it.

Kyle - A Fellow "Rail-Nerd"

Kyle, yes the ZW doesn’t have surge protection for engines with modern electronics.  I made the same mistake, but faired much better than you.  Even though I added proper surge protection to the ZW, I use an MTH Z4000 for my layout.  

Then in that case, how do you add a surge protector to a Lionel ZW? Is there an easy way of doing it? Will it even work?

Kyle - A Fellow "Rail-Nerd"

@The-576-Guy posted:

Then in that case, how do you add a surge protector to a Lionel ZW? Is there an easy way of doing it? Will it even work?

Kyle - A Fellow "Rail-Nerd"

Kyle- If you are only running Lionchief engines, you could buy a Lionel Powerhouse brick. They are rated at 180 watts.

A good ZW will last a lifetime and you can add fast trip circuit breakers easily. I have a KW powering my layout and added 8 amp breakers several years ago. I bought mine from Mouser. Lower amperage ratings are available. The size needed would depend on what you are running. Lighted cars add load, etc.

Lot's of threads on the Forum regarding the subject.

Bob

@RSJB18

Bob I've got a KW I'd like to use but need some breakers.  I remember Peter describing how his modular club built their power and control station, they used a specific electronic breaker for 3 rail trains, I've got the name hear somewhere, but yours looks like a good alternative.  Any chance you could do a little "how to" for your unit?

@coach joe posted:

@RSJB18

Bob I've got a KW I'd like to use but need some breakers.  I remember Peter describing how his modular club built their power and control station, they used a specific electronic breaker for 3 rail trains, I've got the name hear somewhere, but yours looks like a good alternative.  Any chance you could do a little "how to" for your unit?

Pretty straight forward Joe. I went to my electrical supplies and found that a Tel/data jack insert (Leviton) fit the breakers almost perfectly. So I mounted them in the adapter and used a single gang adapter for a 1900 box to mount the breakers. A Decora plate finished off the job.

Wiring was simple- just take the power from the transformer through the breaker to the track bus.

Also added TVSS diodes to each buss. They should be closer to the load side (track) on each power drop, but this is still better than nothing at all.

Bob

Kyle, As Bob said, there are a number of threads on the Forum regarding the subject.  Bob knows electricity and his method is a good one.  There are numerous other ways of doing it.  I like Bob's method because everything is mounted substantially so none of the components will come disconnected as may happen when breakers and TVSs are just hung on the terminals on the back of the ZW.

Forgive my electrical ignorance, I've heard of the TVS diodes before on our great forum but not really sure what they do?  From the name I'm guessing something to do with transient voltage spikes.

@coach joe posted:

Forgive my electrical ignorance, I've heard of the TVS diodes before on our great forum but not really sure what they do?  From the name I'm guessing something to do with transient voltage spikes.

That's it in a nutshell Joe. Lot's more engineering goes into how they work which is beyond my humble skills.....

My Dad was a EE, you'd think it would have worn off on me but......

Some light reading......https://prosurge.com/tvss-transient-voltage-surge-suppressor/

Bob

So is it transformer to track or the other way around?  Wouldn't the circuit breaker pop due to surge?

A railking McDonald's f40ph.  A truly ugly loco.  Pulled the allegedly working electronics out, didn't need them anyway, dropped a bridge rectifer in it until I pick up a cruise commander.  Rattle can repainted as NJT 4120.  Will likely redo it, my painting skills need some work.  Picked up NJT logo from the internet and after several failed attempts got the sizing right.  Learned how to make decals, at least that worked out.  Now to create some passenger cars for it to pull.   

Congratulations, that’s quite an accomplishment.

@coach joe posted:

So is it transformer to track or the other way around?  Wouldn't the circuit breaker pop due to surge?

Yes- Transformer output through the breaker and to the track. The breaker would trip if the initial inrush current exceeded the rating. Example- powering up the track with a derailed car on the track. The current draw through the short would cause the trip. Exactly why we use circuit breakers.
Normally if everything is OK then the breaker wouldn't trip.

Bob

My Weaver RS3 upgrade is nearly complete. I assembled it last night and gave it a test drive. All good except I can hear something rubbing on one of the flywheels. I think I know the culprit and will take a look later and get the shell screwed down. I also need to install a new horn which was missing when I got the engine. The cab interior and figures worked out well. I installed a cab light too. I didn't want it to be too bright and used a 1K resistor. Probably would have been better with a 470 ohm.

Here's a short video running the engine with the Universal remote. I'll take another showing the LC app. The speed can be controlled better with the app which reduces the jerky stops and starts. You can also customize the bell and horn pitch in the app.

I'm very pleased with the results and the install was simple compared to doing a full ERR or PS3/2 stacker. Safe to say I'll be upgrading more basic engines with this method.

Bob

As usual, well done sir!

Bob, do you have the part number for the Lionchief upgrade handy?  Thanks.

John

Another job well done Bob!

Gene

Bob, the RS3 looks and runs great!    I need to back to where your started this project to see if what I have forgotten, since I wasn't filing everything away in my mind since my Weaver RS3 is a fairly new acquisition.  Then I will formulate any questions I may have. 

@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:

As usual, well done sir!

Thank you Jay.

@Steam Crazy posted:

Bob, do you have the part number for the Lionchief upgrade handy?  Thanks.

John

John- The board was from a LC starter set which is Lionchief w/bluetooth. I think these were their second generation boards The advantage is app and universal remote control. The next gen LC + /BT boards require a feedback sensor on the motor. When GRJ said it's not worth the effort, I listened.....

Bob, that’s a nice deal for all the features the board provides!  The engine runs nice and smooth; smooth acceleration and deceleration too.  Thank you for all the hints.  Yes, the flywheel hitting the cab insert, just grazing it would make the sound.

Thanks, Bob!

John

I have other projects going, but since Bob @RSJB18 presented such a nice description of his Weaver RS3 upgrade, I pulled my Weaver RS3 off the Ceiling Central RR for a look inside.  Let me say that I bought this engine from a Forum member a few months ago.  It doesn't need the LC+ upgrade because the previous owner upgraded it with ERR.  However, as I posted when I got it that it doesn't have any slow speed control.  Opening it up, the upgrade looks very nicely done and I see the motors are wired in parallel.  So first off, I need to wire it in series to see if it responds more to my liking.  I wonder if there will be room for adding a cab insert like Bob did without having to move the circuit boards.  I do dislike looking in a cab window and seeing a motor and flywheel instead of a crew member.  Here is what I have.

It's a very nice looking engine and was offered at a great price.

I can see it has been run quite a lot looking at the pickup rollers.

I think the ERR upgrade was done pretty neatly.

Here is the cab end where the cab insert would go.  If I have to move the circuit boards, there isn't much room on the other end before the boards would hit the other motor.

I'm not that familiar with ERR.  I see it has a Cruise Commander version 4.5.  I know ERR uses add on boards, but at this point I don't know what these two boards are.

Thank you for taking a look see!

Whoa Mark, that looks scary. That’s a job for Dr. Bob.

@Tranquil Hollow RR posted:

Whoa Mark, that looks scary. That’s a job for Dr. Bob.

😄😄  Funny, there was a Dr. Bob nearby who ran a weight loss clinic.  😄😄  The Dr. Bob you are referring to will chime in at some point here.  

OK OK OK.......

I'd start with getting the cab interior and see how it fits. If the electronics are solid, I'd hate to see you mess with them.

Better to cut up a $10  piece of plastic then blown up a $200 set of boards.

I'll send you the part numbers.

😁

Thank you, Bob!  I really appreciate the part numbers you sent me.  That can be half the battle.  I totally agree about cutting up plastic rather than risking busting up boards.  😃  Yes, it should run nicely once I rewire the motors.  I’ll take all precautions against damaging the boards doing that.  Not a big deal.  Thank you!!

@RSJB18 posted:

OK OK OK.......

I'd start with getting the cab interior and see how it fits. If the electronics are solid, I'd hate to see you mess with them.

Better to cut up a $10  piece of plastic then blown up a $200 set of boards.

I'll send you the part numbers.

😁

I knew Dr. Bob would arrive to save the patient; and, he’s sending a prescription.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Thank you, Bob!  I really appreciate the part numbers you sent me.  That can be half the battle.  I totally agree about cutting up plastic rather than risking busting up boards.  😃  Yes, it should run nicely once I rewire the motors.  I’ll take all precautions against damaging the boards doing that.  Not a big deal.  Thank you!!

Mark- I'm far from a ERR expert but the Cruise Commander will allow for 32 or 100 speed steps. You can download the instructions from 3rd rail/ ERR and check the programming.
Gunner John would be the best resource for answers.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

Mark- I'm far from a ERR expert but the Cruise Commander will allow for 32 or 100 speed steps. You can download the instructions from 3rd rail/ ERR and check the programming.
Gunner John would be the best resource for answers.

Bob

The programming steps are all in the installation manual. Speed steps, large/small motor, cruise on/off, etc.

Pete

Bob, Pete, thank you very much!!  I will download the instructions and program once I rewire the motors.  Yes, John is such a great fount of knowledge on this subject!  Thank you.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Bob, Pete, thank you very much!!  I will download the instructions and program once I rewire the motors.  Yes, John is such a great fount of knowledge on this subject!  Thank you.

Mark- my (our) point is that you shouldn't need to re-wire the motors. The board programming should solve the speed control issues. I would start by doing a full reset of the boards, and then program according to the instructions.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

Mark- my (our) point is that you shouldn't need to re-wire the motors. The board programming should solve the speed control issues. I would start by doing a full reset of the boards, and then program according to the instructions.

Bob

Ohhhh!  Now I see!    🤦‍♂️  Thank you both, Bob and Pete!!  I will report back after doing the full reset and programming!  

@RSJB18 posted:

Mark- I'm far from a ERR expert but the Cruise Commander will allow for 32 or 100 speed steps. You can download the instructions from 3rd rail/ ERR and check the programming.
Gunner John would be the best resource for answers.

Bob

Correct default is 32, need to be programmed on engine set up.

Craig

PennCentralShops

@ThatGuy posted:

Correct default is 32, need to be programmed on engine set up.

Craig

PennCentralShops

Thank you too, Craig!  So you can teach an old dog new tricks!  It just takes a bit of clarification. 😃