Which Atlas Zephyr cars have been produced so far, and are they still available?
Thanks,
Ben
banelson posted:Thanks all. I do think the Atlas Zephyr cars look great. Two trains I would like to run are the Zephyr (pulled by Burlington units) and someday an Empire Builder. But would you all agree that with max O96 that would be a waste of a nice (and expensive car)? I assume that even if I kept the cars on the outer loop they still wouldn't look very good.
Ben
The only waste would be if you don't buy and run the 21" Atlas Zephyr cars!! 
Right now I am running them on 072 and it seems fine to me so 096 would be even better. These are some of the best detailed cars you can buy.
Enjoy your search!
banelson posted:Which Atlas Zephyr cars have been produced so far, and are they still available?
Thanks,
Ben
If you are considering Atlas 21" cars there was a rumor after the last York that Atlas would take orders for a complete set. Now you would have build a train piecemeal unless someone was willing to part with a complete set. This is one set that Lionel did a poor job on.
Pete
They've already been made. Lionel postwar Madison cars.
#2 are the "Silver" postwar cars.
Matt
Gentlemen,
You have to be joking, the best looking P Cars are on Tin Plate Trains, the big Solid Silvers in both O Gauge and Standard Gauge, absolutely nothing like them any where.
A man has to know his Tin
PCRR/Dave
Budd Company made some nice cars. Bombardier is making nice cars too!
GG1 2340 posted:Budd Company made some nice cars. Bombardier is making nice cars too!
In O SCALE????
bob2 posted:If you disregard price, of course Overland and Wasatch...
The Wasatch cars are in my opinion, works of art and the absolute best representation of O Scale ever. Nothing surpasses them.
i don't do plastic models at all - an irrational thing, but then this hobby is irrational.
Yes, that's the truth~!
I think, dollar for dollar, K-Line is the best in extruded aluminum.
Agreed, though some of those are now approaching the stratosphere.
If cost is not in the equation, the Sunset extruded cars are about three times the quality of K-Line. My K-Line came in at $75 - $100 per car.
I really like the GGD stuff. For the price, I think it's a fantastic product.
The verdict is still out on Lionel's new ABS passenger cars-uh oh, I opened that can of worms now....
86TA355SR posted:I really like the GGD stuff. For the price, I think it's a fantastic product.
The verdict is still out on Lionel's new ABS passenger cars-uh oh, I opened that can of worms now....
Having seen the Lionel NYC ESE cars I can say they are better than GGDs efforts in virtually every way. This from someone who owns a GGD set and prefers metal passenger cars. They are true to prototype as far as window arrangement, much better detailed underframe and trucks, and equipped with full width diaphrams as per prototype. They are also closer in color to the real cars of which about half a dozen are located about 15 miles from me as I type this. Had they been offered without the engine I would have ordered a set.
Pete
The touring Lionel 21" observation car (images have been posted here) is not correct for the Empire State Express as that car did not have an end door. See the prototype and MTH HO images below.
https://www.philadelphiabuildi...sk2/47-p-010-023.jpg
https://www.google.com/imgres?...YKHUI8DOEQMwgrKA8wDw
https://www.google.com/imgres?...i-Dbw4rAIQMwhFKEIwQg
The Lionel model seems to be some kind of fudged Pullman.
Norton posted:86TA355SR posted:I really like the GGD stuff. For the price, I think it's a fantastic product.
The verdict is still out on Lionel's new ABS passenger cars-uh oh, I opened that can of worms now....
Having seen the Lionel NYC ESE cars I can say they are better than GGDs efforts in virtually every way. This from someone who owns a GGD set and prefers metal passenger cars. They are true to prototype as far as window arrangement, much better detailed underframe and trucks, and equipped with full width diaphrams as per prototype. They are also closer in color to the real cars of which about half a dozen are located about 15 miles from me as I type this. Had they been offered without the engine I would have ordered a set.
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I'd have to go with the K-Line non-silhouette cars too 15"-21" are great. I also like the look of the Atlas cars but I have never owned them.
GG1 2340 posted:Budd Company made some nice cars. Bombardier is making nice cars too!
Hot Water posted:GG1 2340 posted:Budd Company made some nice cars. Bombardier is making nice cars too!
In O SCALE????
Sorry bout that Hot Water, I saw the heading and thought of passenger cars life size. Now I'm in Hot Water
I have had 6 sets of passenger cars since I got into this hobby in the last 25 years.
The first set was 5-car Lionel 15.5" passenger cars that was the 11711 Santa Fe set. Nice cars at the time as there was very little competition.
Next I bought a 9-car set of Santa Fe 18" cars from a small outfit that has long been put of business. I am sorry that I do not remember the name. I had these cars for less than two years before selling them to a friend that moved to Colorado about 12 years ago.
I also had two 7-car sets of the MTH Heavyweights. One Santa Fe the other Northern Pacific. All of the above had the silhouette passenger on the windows.
About 15 years ago I bought a total of 14 the MTH 18' Santa Fe passenger cars and installed over 200 figures for my version of the Super Chief. I sold those cars shortly after GGD announced they were building the El Capitan. I have the complete 12-car El Cap that needs at least 100 more figures.
IMHO, the best passenger cars on the market today are the Atlas California Zephyr. Dollar-for-dollar they are the most detailed, best looking and best operating cars on the market. YES, it is a shame that it took seven years for the complete set to hit the market and that SUCKS.
However, if and when Atlas ever announces that they will produce the Santa Fe Super Chief, I will be first in line.
So... to answer the OP's question, my vote goes to Atlas.
Norton posted:86TA355SR posted:I really like the GGD stuff. For the price, I think it's a fantastic product.
The verdict is still out on Lionel's new ABS passenger cars-uh oh, I opened that can of worms now....
Having seen the Lionel NYC ESE cars I can say they are better than GGDs efforts in virtually every way. This from someone who owns a GGD set and prefers metal passenger cars. They are true to prototype as far as window arrangement, much better detailed underframe and trucks, and equipped with full width diaphrams as per prototype. They are also closer in color to the real cars of which about half a dozen are located about 15 miles from me as I type this. Had they been offered without the engine I would have ordered a set.
Pete
Wow Pete, I have to disagree. In fact, I could not disagree more. The Lionel painted plastic ESE samples look like toys compared to the GGD ESE aluminum cars, which are plated. The only problem is that the matching 3rd Rail ESE Hudson can only pull the 6-car set, and not the 8-cars with the 2 add-on cars.
Well, we will have agree to disagree then. The GGD cars finish do not match any metal I am aware of. Certainly not stainless steel. In particular they don't match the real thing. Proof of that is the fact that the Santa Fe cars are not the same finish as the New York Central cars. They are much closer to prototype. I give Scott credit for the attempt but in this case the experiment didn't work out.
Pete
I have a full set of K-Line Great Northern Empire Builder cars and they are truly spectacular. Next in line
is the K-Line Rio Grande Prospector. Another is the K Line B&O Columbian. And last but not least is the
K-Line Canadian Pacific Canadian set. 
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Those look great. I have the B&O, GN, PRR, and a couple of hi-level CNW, and a string of UP. The K-Line dome car was a bit toy- like, so I use Midland Reproductions domes.
For the Museum, I 2- railed a full set of NP, Milw, and the Surfliner bi-level cars. I wish I had stocked up on the Surfliner cars - you should see how they light up at night!
I cannot edit.
I should not throw rocks - but the K-Line SP Daylight cars missed the mark for me. On the other hand, nobody in O Scale has ever done the Daylight cars properly. Sunset came really close. Overland missed by a mile. And Speer would have been within one corrugation if he had made it into production.
How many different Zephyr cars did Atlas O actually make?
banelson posted:How many different Zephyr cars did Atlas O actually make?
Virtually all of them for each of the three railroads that operated the CZ, i.e. CB&Q, D&RDW, and WP. the last car in the entire series is due from Atlas next year.
Jtrain posted:Norton posted:86TA355SR posted:I really like the GGD stuff. For the price, I think it's a fantastic product.
The verdict is still out on Lionel's new ABS passenger cars-uh oh, I opened that can of worms now....
Having seen the Lionel NYC ESE cars I can say they are better than GGDs efforts in virtually every way. This from someone who owns a GGD set and prefers metal passenger cars. They are true to prototype as far as window arrangement, much better detailed underframe and trucks, and equipped with full width diaphrams as per prototype. They are also closer in color to the real cars of which about half a dozen are located about 15 miles from me as I type this. Had they been offered without the engine I would have ordered a set.
Pete
Wow Pete, I have to disagree. In fact, I could not disagree more. The Lionel painted plastic ESE samples look like toys compared to the GGD ESE aluminum cars, which are plated. The only problem is that the matching 3rd Rail ESE Hudson can only pull the 6-car set, and not the 8-cars with the 2 add-on cars.
Let's see a ESE comparison!
My GGD Pullman.
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"Nicest"? That has a lot of room in it and means many different things to many people......
I happen to think that my SMR PRR passenger cars and the Beaver Creek cars that I have are both nice, but also prototypically accurate cars.
But then I also happen to think that my Alexander car is pretty nice and I'd really like to have several more if they could be found.
l'm also thinking that some of my other cars are "nice"...
Well, I don't have access to most of my pics but I do have these.
First the real deal.
As built.
Today with the Alonzo Cornell RPO in the foreground.
Here is Lionel's Coach.
With Full Width Diaphrams as per as built prototype.
Here are some GGD cars. One with GGD trucks, the other with Lionel's. Note the lack of full width diaphrams. Which one is toylike?
Pete
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Big Jim posted:Jtrain posted:Norton posted:86TA355SR posted:I really like the GGD stuff. For the price, I think it's a fantastic product.
The verdict is still out on Lionel's new ABS passenger cars-uh oh, I opened that can of worms now....
Having seen the Lionel NYC ESE cars I can say they are better than GGDs efforts in virtually every way. This from someone who owns a GGD set and prefers metal passenger cars. They are true to prototype as far as window arrangement, much better detailed underframe and trucks, and equipped with full width diaphrams as per prototype. They are also closer in color to the real cars of which about half a dozen are located about 15 miles from me as I type this. Had they been offered without the engine I would have ordered a set.
Pete
Wow Pete, I have to disagree. In fact, I could not disagree more. The Lionel painted plastic ESE samples look like toys compared to the GGD ESE aluminum cars, which are plated. The only problem is that the matching 3rd Rail ESE Hudson can only pull the 6-car set, and not the 8-cars with the 2 add-on cars.
Let's see a ESE comparison!
My GGD Pullman.
Big Jim:
Very nice. Are those customized in any way?
Ben
A lot depends on your choice for a prototype RR, then, the era you are modelling comes into play and finally what size curves you have, which will determine the size of the cars you can use. IF you have minimum curve diameters of 72" or more, you can probably get away with 21" (85' scale) cars, which, in my mind look the best for a long, sweeping passenger train. But if you have a smaller layout with smaller curves, you will need to limit yourself to 18" or maybe even 15" cars.
No one made heavyweight style (often incorrectly referred to as "Madison" cars) longer than 18" until Golden Gate Depot began their new series of cars which are more correct, prototype, 21" cars. Those cars, to my mind, are the best looking of all heavyweight design passenger cars. Before that, Lionel, MTH, Williams and K-Line all offered 18" heavyweights as their largest offering. I own some of those cars from each of those manufacturers, all with interiors making them fairly recent cars from the last 15 years, and I think that all of them have their individual attractiveness about them. I have also installed people in all of my cars, and modified some of the "as made" interiors to what I believed was a more correct arrangement.
As to streamlined cars, K-Line made some nice 21" extruded aluminum cars, and then Lionel offered them after K-Line's demise. All of MTH's streamlined cars are 18", from what I know. Weaver offered several different prototype RR passenger car sets that were 21" that were very nice. And of course, the new Atlas streamlined cars, specifically designed for the California Zephyr, are all the correct 21" overall length. For me, owning primarily Milwaukee Road equipment, the Weaver cars offered good detail and the attraction of 21" Milwaukee Road cars. On the older series of cars, from the 1990's, they had no interiors and I have had to add interiors, clear windows and overhead lighting, but the effort has been worth the work. I understand that Lionel is now offering 21" cars in their new line, and, of course, Golden Gate also offers very good replicas of real passenger cars in 21" lengths.
Paul Fischer
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banelson posted:Big Jim:Very nice. Are those customized in any way?
Ben
No, it is straight out of the box.
Has anyone made a nice version of the Empire Builder?
banelson posted:Has anyone made a nice version of the Empire Builder?
Not yet, in my opinion, at least for 3-Rail O Scale, anyway. However, I believe Sunset/3rd Rail/Golden Gate Depot is working on it. You might check their website.
Love the Zephyr cars and yes they need a minimum of 081 for operating. 0100, I like to run them on. I am cannot wait for the new LIONEL ESE CARS. I believe they will set a new benchmark for passenger car models.
Haven't heard anyone talk about the smithsonian passenger cars made by Fine Arts Models (Kohls?) in 1992-1993. These 2-rail cars have incredible detail unmatched except for the most high priced brass such as Pecos River? They are still available quite frequently in the 20th Century Limited scheme for between $250-$500 each depending on the auction. I also have several sets of GGD cars. Quality can vary a great deal depending on who manufactured them for GGD. The best ones in my opinion are the 1938 and 1940, 20th Century limited sets (1948 set not so good); (Had to buy them because my grandfather road the engines out in the yards at ALCO Schenectady, NY in the 1930s and 1940s.) Also the Prewar PRR Broadway Limited set (fr 2013?). I would buy more of these (add-ons) in a heart beat. They are heavy, have great detail and window dressings, for about $200.00 each. Would like to see Atlas make more 21" passenger sets in other road names; modelers would gobble them up! Atlas take note! ;but don't let is wait so long to complete a consist! Keep riding the rails guys!
For non-articulated stream-lined Zephyr sets, I like these:
1. Lionel 2003 California Zephyr CB&Q extruded & plated aluminum sets based on Budd prototype in semi-scale 60' (15"). These include the Budd-style curved glass domes, length-wise ribbing on sides & roofs, full skirting (with truck cut-outs), full-with diaphragms, detailed silver trucks, tinted glass, CZ-car plates (CZ-10, CZ-11, etc), RR plates (CB&Q), Zephyr gothic lettering, detailed lower & dome interiors, and passenger car figures. The 4 car set: baggage Silver Coyote, vista dome coaches Silver Saddle & Silver Stirrup, and vista dome observation Silver Lookout with CZ drumhead. The 2-car sleeper set: Silver Shore & Silver Point.
2. Lionel 2000 California Zephyr WP extruded & plated aluminum sets based on Budd prototype in semi-scale 60' (15"). These include the Budd-style curved glass domes, length-wise ribbing on sides & roofs, full skirting (with truck cut-outs), post-war-style silver trucks, clear dome glass, passenger silhouette side windows, RR plated (WP), Zephyr gothic lettering, and detailed dome interior with no passenger figures. I have added black rubber heavy-weight style diaphragms. I plan to tint the dome windows and add passenger figures. The 4 car set: vista dome coaches Silver Thistle, Silver Poplar, & Silver Palm, and vista dome observation Silver Planet with lighted CZ drumhead. The 2-car set: baggage Silver Stag & diner Silver Platter.
3. Lionel 1993 California Zephyr D&RGW extruded & plated aluminum sets based on Budd prototype in semi-scale 60' (15"). These include the Budd-style curved glass domes, length-wise ribbing on sides & roofs, full skirting (with truck cut-outs), post-war-style silver trucks, clear dome glass, passenger silhouette side windows, RR plates (D&RGW), Zephyr gothic lettering, and detailed dome interior with no passenger figures. I have added black rubber heavy-weight style diaphragms. I plan to tint the dome windows and add passenger figures. The 6 car set: baggage car Silver Antelope, vista dome coaches Silver Bronco, Silver Colt, Silver Mustang, & Silver Pony and vista dome observation Silver Sky with lighted CZ drumhead.
4. K-Line ~2000 California Zephyr extruded & plated aluminum sets based on Budd prototype in semi-scale 60' (15"). These include the Budd-style curved glass domes, length-wise ribbing on sides & roofs, full skirting (with truck cut-outs), detailed silver trucks (larger than Lionel's & maybe based on full scale), clear dome glass, clear side windows, black rubber diaphragms, RR plates (CB&Q, WP, or D&RGW), Zephyr gothic lettering, and detailed lower & dome interiors, and passenger figures. I plan to tint the dome windows and add a few more passenger figures. The 4 car set: vista dome coaches WP Silver Dollar, D&RGW Silver Mustang, & CB&Q Silver Round-Up and vista dome observation CB&Q Silver Horizon with lighted CZ drumhead. The 2-car set: baggage CB&Q Silver Bear & diner WP Silver Platter.
5. MTH-Premier ~1997 California Zephyr CB&Q extruded & plated aluminum sets based on Budd prototype in semi-scale 70' (18"). These include the Budd-style curved glass domes, length-wise ribbing on sides & roofs, full skirting (with truck cut-outs), post-war-style silver trucks, clear dome glass, passenger silhouette side windows, RR plates (CB&Q), Zephyr gothic lettering, and no dome interiors. I have added black rubber heavy-weight style diaphragms. I plan to tint the dome windows, add dome interior floor & seating, and add passenger figures. The 5 car set: baggage Silver Bear, vista dome coaches Silver Rifle & Silver Range, flat-top coach Silver Larch, and vista dome observation Silver Solarium with lighted CZ drumhead. The 2-car set: sleeper Silver Siesta & diner Silver Cuisine. Although not plated aluminum or prototypical for CZ, I have supplemented this set with a few of MTH's Premier full-vista CZ dome 70' (18") coaches in silver paint on the ABS bodies (Budd-based models).
6. Lionel 1980 Texas Zephyr Burlington CB&Q extruded & plated aluminum sets based on Budd prototype in semi-scale 60' (15"). These include the Budd-style curved glass domes, length-wise ribbing on sides & roofs, full skirting (with truck cut-outs), post-war-style BLACK trucks, clear dome glass, passenger silhouette side windows, Zephyr gothic lettering, and no dome interiors. I have added black rubber heavy-weight style diaphragms. I plan to add a BR herald drumhead, paint the trucks silver, tint the dome windows, add dome interior floor & seating, and add passenger figures. The 5 car set: baggage Silver Pouch, vista dome coaches Silver Kettle & Silver Dome, flat-top coaches Silver Gladiola & Silver Halter, and flat top observation Silver Veranda with no drumhead. these car names are actually based on CB&Q's 1956 vista dome Denver Zephyr (the Texas Zephyr used the 2nd hand semi-articulated cars from the 1936 Denver Zephyr).
I will make separate postings about the articulated shovel-nose Zephyrs and heavyweight passenger cars.
I love passenger cars. I can run only semi-scale. I hand-painted a total of 180 MTH figures to go into them. And the winners are...
MTH PRR heavyweights, and MTH PRR "Fleet of Modernism" streamlined. These semi-scale cars look great, and were priced right. Believe it or not, these are the only MTH products I run.
if I wanted to acquire a set of Atlas Zephyr cars in CB&Q, what cars would I need to track down? I am trying to figure out what cars have actually been made. Why are they called? What serial numbers? I want to start the search.
When you guys build a Zephyr train, does it matter if you have CB&Q mixed with WP, etc?? What is the prototypical mix of cars??
Thanks and sorry for my ignorance!
Ben
The road name cars were mixed into the train,the PRR also had a Zephyr Car that was pulled from NYC to Chicago to be cut into the train.
Mikey
Ok. For instance it appears that they made a baggage car in WP, D&RG, and CB&Q. I assume I only need one... So I just buy one in any of the three road names?
Ben
No Empire Builder? I am in love with my K-Line Empire Builder, but I am a 2-railer, and not quite as interested in exact window arrangements.
No heavyweights of proper length before GGD? Tell that to Ed Alexander, Wm. K Walthers, and maybe PSC. Not to mention Fisher and Jc Models, and maybe Exacta.
And I see that folks have figured out how to duplicate preceding posts. I was hoping that would become more difficult with this new format.
Actually, I do have some 1990's UP dome cars I am getting to love. See posting within this "Traditional" postings. They do have the people in the windows.
But I am thinking of what a person might see on ground level at sunset or night into a passenger car at the Amtrak Station here in Houston before the Superliners. Actually, you do not see very much. And you don't see very much at speed.
So see what you are really looking for in a passenger train, and go from there. To me, unless you have your train or biz car parked at the front end of the layout, inside detail maybe a wast of money.
Ben: The original, the prototype California Zephyr was the result of an agreement between the railroads: Chicago Burlington & Quincy, the Denver and Rio Grande Western and the Western Pacific. Each of them owned their own share of the equipment used on the train and on any train you could see any of the cars represented by each railroad. The only difference between the different RR's cars was the road's initials which appeared in the upper corner of the sides of the car, the letterboard area.
Each railroad used their own engines for their stretch of the total. From Chicago to Denver it was pulled by CB&Q power, from Denver to Salt Lake City the train had Rio Grande engines, and from Salt Lake to San Francisco (actually Oakland) the train was handled by Western Pacific power.
So, to answer your question, any of the three RR's cars would be correct and any of the three RR's engines (depending on your location) would also be proper.
Incidentally, the WP pulled out of the agreement in 1970, leaving passengers stranded in Salt Lake City. The following year, in 1971 when Amtrak was formed, the Rio Grande was one of four railroads that didn't sign up to be a part of Amtrak. Therefore they were obligated to continue to run the former California Zephyr, but in reduced form and it was renamed the Rio Grande Zephyr. I had the privilege of riding this great train, several times and you could see the pride of the Rio Grande employees who worked hard to maintain the tradition of the original Cal Zephyr. That train ran one train, every other day in each direction: Monday's it was West Bound, Tuesday East from SLC and so forth, except Sundays when it stayed in Denver for the weekend. There was a great video of this train and I believe a book was written, called "Never On Sundays". Of course, this remnant of the CZ used all Rio Grande equipment but it still ran through some of the most spectacular scenery in the United States.
Paul Fischer
I think the Q had some silver F units built for the CZ which were planned to run through onto the Grande and Western Pacific. For some reasone that did not work out. Hence the CZ on the Q was powered by E units.
