Why do people go so cheap on packing and shipping?

Agree with one exception. It is possible to hold the seller liable, but if they refuse to make good, then what do you do? Are you going to travel to another state and stay a few days just to go to small claims court?  In these cases you will be S.O.L. but if you purchase on eBay you have buyer protection. Sellers/stores on eBay are held hostage by the service to their policy. If you don't do it their way, you lose; you've lost your sales vehicle and they also control paypal payments. I doubt if many people who sell on eBay want to lose their selling privilege and at the same time, be charged for the claim anyway.

When this happens, it is not just indicative of their carelessness in packing skills, it is a mirror of the way they conduct themselves generally.

I think its mostly a case of not knowing how to pack an item properly, or how packages are handled by shipping companies (including USPS).

 

That depends on how densely you pack the newspapers.  If you just crumple them and leave them so there can still be movement you are right. 

 

If you crumple them and pack them in until you can't fit any more in the box and it rigidly holds the form, I'll place that against packing peanuts any day.

 

Now if we get into the discussion of some amount of play being desirable to lower shock when items are dropped, then peanuts may provide some give.

 

It's somewhat analogous to the college physics/engineering club contest to design a container to help an egg survive being dropped from one or 2 stories up.  If you have no play at all, the egg likely breaks.

 

For most cases for our trains, I'd prefer rigidly holding the item in the middle vs. loose packing that lets the item migrate to the edge of the package as the peanuts move around each time it gets dropped/thrown, etc.

 

It's not always desirable to leave big packages on your doorstep all day until the PO shows up to pick them up. 

 

Not everyone lives in neighborhoods where they can safely assume the item will always still be there when the PO arrives.  (Even in neighborhoods that may be considered "safe", it's also a matter of personal comfort and assumed risk doing so, and in lots of places, it rains/snows sometimes.  Starting off with a wet/snow covered package before the shipper even has i tin their possession is not a good recipe for success)

 

-Dave

As a shipper, I pack well and track every item I ship until it is delivered. Recent increases in shipping costs and my own experience with a lost item shipped to me have shut me down until I figure things out. Nothing I ever shipped was lost or damamaged.  I refuse to sell something that costs less than the shipping method and I have to get over it. A mint Hess truck sells for $6 on Ebay and costs me $9 to ship? Ridiculous! I just gave away 6 Hess trucks to the people in my office. Not worth selling IMO.

twos words  Stupid &  Cheap. I like when products are packed correctly and I have a tendency to over pack anything I ship out to a buyer as I want the receiver to enjoy that train as much as I had

It's not just that the don't care, it's really because they don't know.  I've gotten some stuff for repair or upgrade that was very poorly packed, several to the point they got damaged in the shipment.  I make sure they're packed properly for the return trip.

 

Some people just don't have any idea how to properly pack something to avoid damage in shipment.  It's a skill like anything else.

 

Very true.  Just going to the PO to drop something off you encounter folks that seemingly have no idea how to mail a letter, let alone pack a box properly, close the box, tape it up for shipping, put a label on it, or have any concept of what mailing options or rates are available.  And, then you get the clerk that takes the time to pack it for them and the so on............

 

But there are clearly some that simply do not care and/or are just too cheap moving too much of a volume of items to be bothered.

 

As for leaving stuff on the porch to be picked up, there's a fair chance it will be picked up but not by the USPS.  Good rash of folks scouting for stuff to steal off porches.

Stupidity

 

Carelessness

 

Laziness

 

Ignorance

 

Not one lick of common sense

 

Cheap

 

are a few that come to mind.

 

Simon

That pretty much sums it up.  On the other hand, I have received items so tightly wrapped with bubble wrap, and surrounded so tightly with peanuts that the item broke from the pressure!  I am sure the shipper believed he had done an excellent job, but you can overdo a good thing.  Proper packing for shipping is an art in and of it's self.

I've had 3 MPC engines arrive in the last 2 months that had broken couplers, & truck steps due to them just being tossed in a box w/ some newspaper & plastic bag for packing.  Really gets me angry.  In all 3 cases, I was able to get a partial refund from the seller & repair them, but still.   When I sell something, I make sure it's packed to withstand pretty much anything.  I'm not just selling a train, it's also my name on that box & I have pride in doing anything in which my name is attached.

Sorry to hear about what happened Jeff. You have already heard my horror stories about several items purchased over the last few months. Hopefully you find the parts again soon. I know this quest has been ongoing for some time. Nothing more frustrating than finally finding something and it arrives broken due to ???  See you Sunday,

 

Bob

 

In my experience it's been mostly either cheap skates (usually a reseller) or people who don't know any better (like a non hobbyist relative liquidating an estate).

 

For the stuff I've received damaged I have either been able to get a partial refund or have the item returned on the seller's dime.

 

These days I only buy from hobbyists who have a lengthy track record and near perfect rating, especially for shipping. That has solved it thus far.

 

Oh, and of course, ALWAYS get full insurance even if you have to pay extra (the cost is a pittance).

 

Lastly, used to be UPS had packaging requirements - a package has to survive a 10' fall - it not packaged accordingly they'd try to deny the claim. Not sure if that's the case anymore though...

 

 

 

Probably a combo of lack of skill, knowing better and cheap, but what about our examples, the big boys, the expert companies that have been around and should know better while making a profit.  The last 3 engines I received from Dash/Trainz have either come in pieces or bent parts.  All in their original boxes.  What about Lionel, are the new boxes padded because their old boxes just don't cut it as I've also had pieces or bent parts?

 

I'd rather have you guys pack my stuff than them.

 

My impression has been the manfs are only concerned about getting it from China to the USA.  That means in a large shipping con-ex.  Not the delivery truck or driver.

 

After that, it's our problem.  

 

Now, I'm ready for the 'heat rounds' to come my way from the last statement...

When you purchase an item, their is an implied warranty unless there is noted exceptions. It is the sellers responsibility to see that it arrives undamaged.

Happy Pappy, you are correct, one must get good documentation of the damaged item and the Packing material.

A note to shippers, make sure the item is packed well because its your responsibility. If its poorly packed,even if the item is insured the carrier will not pay the claim.

Because everyone wants free shipping Or close to it, then complain when damage, people have to stop living in 1950s pricing

 

There's an element of truth to that. Another aspect to this is, although I pack things very carefully, a number of times over the years (including one incident recently) the buyer complained that something was broken on the item and he wanted his money back.

 

In these cases, I have been 99.9% sure the buyer had dropped the item or otherwise broke the item after he received it, because it appeared all but impossible that the particular part could have broken in shipping with the way it had been packed. Of course, with the big auction site, the seller has no option but to refund the buyer's money, and then get back a now-broken item without any compensaton.

 

I find the packing and shipping portion the worst part of the selling job - a real time-consuming PITA, but that's not an excuse for not doing it properly, of course. It is a problem though, as the poster states, that many folks want unrealistic "old days" cost shipping, and don't realize how expensive it actually is today, or how much time and extra cost is involved in the packing and shipping process, including, in my case, time and transportation costs travelling to and from the post office. And often if you put in the true shipping costs, the items won't sell.

Hmmm. I have charged a shipping fee. Once the item has made its way and the buyer is satisfied as to its received condition, then the buyer reimburses me for the shipping.

This method has worked well. If the buyer does not like the way it was received or didn't like what they bought, they send it back on their dime. And then they receive a refund for their purchase. It keeps everybody honest.

David,

I no longer collect. Rest assured that if I ever do start collecting modern pieces, I'll look you up.

I been buying in ebay since 1999 and only had a few poor packing experiences. All but one followed thru and the one was handled thru the ebay dispute center.

 

Thanks Happy Pappy. There are some on this forum that can attest to this. I have actually eaten some of the shipping cost because to ship it right and safe, after the deal is done, the true cost of shipping was more than expected.  The seller and I have come to a reasonable middle. I've never gotten anything returned. If it costs me to stand straight, so be it. One member of this Forum actually paid more, even after we finally agreed, kind of, to the final shipping cost, so the excess is going to the DAV (Disabled American Veterans) on top of what I usually give. It turned out to be a Win-Win. We are both Veterans...

I couldn't have anyone send me a note to say something didn't make it through the process.  I will spend $5-10 extra dollars if need be to make certain things don't break.  When I sell something on Ebay or here on this forum, its because I need the money for other trains.  I have to make certain that my buyer is happy so that I can keep their money, and whatever I sold them has to get there in the same shape it left.

The other thing you have to realize is not everyone can grasp the concept of packing. Alot of people dont intentionally pack bad they just cant visualize it. I have helped several people move and they even pack their own belongings horrible, let alone something to go across country. Then they are shocked when it is broke. Ever since we have become more advanced in technology, common sense is out the window. Unless there is an app for it, forgetaboutit.

I think some people don't understand how the item can be damaged.  The motion inside, the vicinity to the outer box.  I have had many items shipped to me by owners for repairs with inadequate packing.

 

A 7 to 10 pound weight in an undersized box with marginal packing is a sure way to damage a shell, or bend wheels and axles, let alone break off detail parts.

 

Also, when shipping in the original box, make sure you add the wrap paper around the engine.  It restricts the movement in the Styrofoam, and prevents Styrofoam pellets from getting everywhere inside the engine, including gears.  G

quote:

I think some people don't understand how the item can be damaged.  The motion inside, the vicinity to the outer box.  I have had many items shipped to me by owners for repairs with inadequate packing.

 

Additionally, I don't think people appreciate how packages are handled. It's not just the weight of the item inside the box. For example, UPS now accepts packages up to 150 pounds (over 70 requires a special label). When I worked for UPS, boxes got stacked from floor to ceiling in the trailer boxes. Your package could wind up on the bottom of the stack.  Boxes move on conveyor belts and are slid down chutes. What if a seventy pound box comes sliding down, and hits your package?

 

I seriously doubt any other carriers handle their packages any differently.

 

Here is a link to UPS packaging instructions. Its four pages, ending with the following note:

 

Note: UPS does not provide special handling for packages with "Fragile", package orientation (e.g., "UP" arrows or "This End Up" markings), or any other similar such markings.

Ups has accepted 150 lbs for many years. According to my daily pickup driver they have a special procedure for the heavy boxes over 70 lbs. i doubt they are throwing them on the conveyor

quote:

Ups has accepted 150 lbs for many years. According to my daily pickup driver they have a special procedure for the heavy boxes over 70 lbs. i doubt they are throwing them on the conveyor

 

How about seventy pound boxes? You don't think they are going on the conveyor? They don't have any special markings for weight. Here is what I wrote:

 

quote:

What if a seventy pound box comes sliding down, and hits your package?

Gentlemen,

   I agree with Brian, most times this is not a mistake, it's the over all discipline that person lives with, their entire life is conducted in the same manner.

PCRR/Dave

Ok everything I have ordered a engine from a hobby store its sent in the shipper and 97% of the time it comes all the way from china with out damage .. While I still pack a train in another box over the shipper with paper or foam what are you really suppose to do? Unless you drive it to them yourself sometimes things will get broken..Now if you take a train and throw it in a box that's different.

I usually use double boxing plus foam peanuts and big bubble wrap to protect. 

Another problem is that buyers are balking at paying exact cost for shipping. The cost of selling and shipping a engine coast to coast can cost upwards of $65+ And that does not include insurance. 

 

Buyers should take a look at what shipping costs, they would be surprised.

 

 

 

My pet peeve is opening a box from someone who has used the foam pebbles that cling to everything.

Ive been doing ebay since 1999 with over 5000 transactions and shipping my various bridge since 2007. I have found that I hate packaging, however it is by far the most important segment of the entire transaction no matter if it is a simple part or a large/fragile configuration. I normally package trains and train parts w bubble wrap covered by thick newspaper or equal. Then install into appropriate size box and fill any gaps w additional filler materials. I package my bridges in a very similar process. I frequently receive messages on how great the packaging was. Anyhow, my 3 cents worth.

 

jim r

I like Dave's idea on packing though I don't think the big businesses, as I previously mentioned,  are going to do it.  "It's just business" to them, even though I would guess they get supplies at cost for bulk.

 

From there I'm also guessing down the road when a person wants to sell their train that they bought from a big company, if they are inexperienced or not disciplined they just wrap it up the way they received it and the cycle starts again.

 

The sad part is sure you can return a damaged product to  the company/person but how bad do you want it, especially if it was hard to come by?

Captaincog,

       Just curious, have you received or pursued any offer of compensation from the seller?

 

Couldn’t agree more on the cheapness in today’s society.   I’ve lost track of how many times over the years that a buyer for something that I sold on eFees complained to me that they paid for example, $15 shipping but the postage on the box said $10.  I would have to explain to them that they are paying for Shipping AND Handling, not just shipping.  Boxes, tape, bubble wrap, peanuts, etc. aren’t free (I make sure that I pack things well), and I wasn’t about to eat the cost so that they could save $2.  They would still complain and threaten to report me.  Now that I print all my eFees postage labels at home, I NEVER check the box that says “display postage on label”.  Problem solved and less headaches for me.

 

Heck, this past weekend, this bloke in line at the post office was complaining to everyone who would listen (we tried to ignored him) that the USPS boxes weren’t free and that the ones that were free (the Flat Rate/Priority ones) you had to pay extra postage for.  Said he could get boxes for free someplace else.  Wanted to tell him to go there and leave the rest of us here in peace.  I guess that he felt that he should still be able to send a 6 pound box in the mail for 22 cents.  There are many fools in this world, plain and simple.

They've already made the sale, therefore they do not care.

I've had several HO locomotives arrive with broken handrails and add on detail parts.

I no longer buy anything without the original box, even that didn't prevent the last two items from arriving broken, the locomotive was allowed to slam back and forth with the foam box because the shipper left out all of the original packaging.

Amfleet, i agree well said buddy!

I dont have to worry about that as i pack per the standards. If there is sufficent packing inside and a box with proper crush weight it could survive a blow or stacking from a 70 or 150lb box. Again it all goes back to packing it properly

We ship hundreds of boxes a day and may have 1 or 2 problems a year