I have several blocks where I run center rail power through a toggle switch so that I can cut power to the block as desired. This works fine for my TMCC/Legacy engines. However, if I cut power when there is a DCS engine in the block, when I subsequently power back up, the DCS engines won't operate. I have to cut all power to everything and then power back up for the DCS engines to work again. I am baffled. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Engines running in DCS need to be powered down before turning off track power.
Thanks for the quick reply. I've tried that, however, and they still don't start back up.
That's sounds like odd behavior to me, I am a bit baffled as well? I don't recall ever having a problem starting, shutting down or restarting anything like that and I have several similar sidings on my layout where I park all engines while not in use and power them down. Most engines are MTH with only a couple of Legacy engines mixed in. All of my MTH engines are PS3. I don't have any TMCC engines.
Maybe it would help others in offering some solutions if they knew how you have things wired, what's on the racks, exactly what steps are taken to cause cause the problem you are having, etc.?
If I understand it when power is cut then restored there is no DCS startup signal generated to tell engines to be silent "until spoken to". However when I restore power almost always the PS2 and 3 engines power up in conventional mode, so I need to shut down and cold start everything. I have noticed though sometimes I can scroll to the engine then hit start-up button which sometimes will force it into a DCS engine startup.
O Road posted:I have several blocks where I run center rail power through a toggle switch so that I can cut power to the block as desired. This works fine for my TMCC/Legacy engines. However, if I cut power when there is a DCS engine in the block, when I subsequently power back up, the DCS engines won't operate. I have to cut all power to everything and then power back up for the DCS engines to work again. I am baffled. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
you'd have to wire the switch into a TIU channel so that when it's turned back on it sends the watchdog signal again.
sxe60 posted:Engines running in DCS need to be powered down before turning off track power.
I've never even heard of this? 
makes sense to me because when you shut down engines in dcs they save all the engines setting on power down, but if you just shut of track power off with a toggle switch the engines never shut down to save there setting like is normally done!
O Road posted:I have several blocks where I run center rail power through a toggle switch so that I can cut power to the block as desired. This works fine for my TMCC/Legacy engines. However, if I cut power when there is a DCS engine in the block, when I subsequently power back up, the DCS engines won't operate. I have to cut all power to everything and then power back up for the DCS engines to work again. I am baffled. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
They come up in conventional mode with sounds in neutral, right? Did you try doing a shutdown on the remote to the locomotive and then a startup? I see this all the time at the club, not all locomotives do it, but a lot do. I'm pretty sure it also has to do with signal strength, but I can't say for sure.
Our symptoms are everything works but movement. We can blow the horn, but the locomotive won't move. The shutdown/startup gets their mind right.
Engineer-Joe posted:O Road posted:I have several blocks where I run center rail power through a toggle switch so that I can cut power to the block as desired. This works fine for my TMCC/Legacy engines. However, if I cut power when there is a DCS engine in the block, when I subsequently power back up, the DCS engines won't operate. I have to cut all power to everything and then power back up for the DCS engines to work again. I am baffled. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
you'd have to wire the switch into a TIU channel so that when it's turned back on it sends the watchdog signal again.
sxe60 posted:Engines running in DCS need to be powered down before turning off track power.
I've never even heard of this?
Hi Joe, not to hijack this thread, how do you go about wiring the toggle into the TIU? I have the same problem!
Bingo! GunrunnerJohn's (and SXE60) suggestion of powering down before cutting power and then doing a power up after restoring power gets it going. Don't know why but it works! Signal strength on the siding is 10, so it is something else. Anyway, my 44-tonner is now happy sleeping (and waking up) on a siding. Thanks all and Happy New Year!
mike g. posted:Hi Joe, not to hijack this thread, how do you go about wiring the toggle into the TIU? I have the same problem!
Interrupt the red wire before the channel input
O Road posted:Bingo! GunrunnerJohn's (and SXE60) suggestion of powering down before cutting power and then doing a power up after restoring power gets it going. Don't know why but it works! Signal strength on the siding is 10, so it is something else. Anyway, my 44-tonner is now happy sleeping (and waking up) on a siding. Thanks all and Happy New Year!
I believe your pressing start up after the power is restored. That fixes any missed watchdog signal and makes the engine controllable to DCS.
I still can't figure out why the need to fully shut down?
Alan Mancus posted:makes sense to me because when you shut down engines in dcs they save all the engines setting on power down, but if you just shut of track power off with a toggle switch the engines never shut down to save there setting like is normally done!
If you turn track power off they do the same thing. Save all the current settings. Just like doing a conventional reset right. At some point you turn power to the train off and it plays shutdown sounds, stores data and turns off.
What John said and SXE are not the same thing or at least I do not think they are.
We need to be a little more precise with terms. Shut down and Startup are DCS terms, power down and shutting off track power are the same thing to me but not the same as DCS startup or shutdown.
If you kill power to a siding and the engine shuts down due to no power, when you reapply power without generating a new watch dog signal like Joe talked about the engine starts up conventionally. You could select it with the remote and press Startup button and it will operate with DCS. It will switch it back to the DCS mode. I think you could also scroll through menu and toggle between conventional and DCS as an alternative too. G
I realize that the settings are saved at shut down. However he can't get the engine to run. So the engine is not in DCS mode at power up.
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...-dcs-watchdog-thread
I like Joes idea of a toggle on the input side of the tiu channel just in case one needs the Watch dog.(lash-ups)
There's a way that doesn't involve any additional switches. From page 172 of The DCS Companion 3rd Edition:
If a DCS engine comes up in conventional mode for any reason, the DCS operator has two options. If the operator desires that the engine be dark and silent, waiting for a DCS Start Up command to be issued, all that's required is to select the DCS engine using the Engine Control Screen and press the Shut Down key. The engine will become dark and silent in DCS stealth mode, waiting for a future Start Up command.
If, however, the operator desires to put the engine into DCS command mode and then operate it, all that's required is to select the DCS engine using the Engine Control Screen and press the Start Up key.
DCS engine lashups, however, are the exception to this rule. If a lashup misses seeing the watchdog signal, pressing Start Up has no effect. For DCS lashups to come up in DCS mode, it's necessary to do one of two things. The first is to power off the TIU channel to which the tracks where the lashup resides are connected. Then, if there's a toggle switch that controls the siding or track block where the lashup resides, this switch must be turned on before turning on power to the TIU channel to which the tracks are connected. Power must then be turned on quickly enough that the lashup catches the watchdog signal. The second is to first highlight the engine in the remote's Active or Inactive Engine list. Then, turn on the toggle switch and immediately press the thumbwheel to select the engine. It will come up in DCS stealth mode, dark and silent. This also works with individual DCS engines.
As previously stated, this can present problems when power to TIU Tracks or Z4K Tracks is increased using the thumbwheel on the DCS Remote. The way to avoid this problem is by setting the minimum starting voltage for a TIU Track or Z4K track to a voltage high enough that track voltage can be raised to that voltage by one click of the thumbwheel when scrolling up power. This will ensure that all DCS engines that are on the track being powered up will see the watchdog signal. (This procedure is explained in detail in Part V - Advanced Features and Functions, 2. Z4K Tracks, Z4K and TIU Tracks and the Watchdog Signal, earlier in this book.)
I’ve been cutting power to TIU channels all night. Try a startup after restoring power. It’s been working for me.
The 'Perpetual Barking Watchdog' (PBW) might help some folks with the missing watchdog signals on unpowered tracks. A DCS Remote Commander receiver is required for it's operation. More info here, in the thread where it was developed by Gunrunnerjohn and Stan2004: Proposed Solution to DCS Watchdog in Yard Tracks (DCS-RC WD Gerber Files Added to First Post). The PBW was updated a few months ago in this thread: PBW needed.
Updated files are attached to this post 'Perpetual Barking Watchdog' which include all the information you need to order PCBs and parts to build your own PBW. Or if you prefer a kit, I have a few of those left for the updated version. Info on kits included in the linked post, or my email is in my profile.
Again, a DCS Remote Commander receiver (shown below) is required in order to be able to use the PBW.
To answer engineer-joe's question of why you'd want to fully shut down, there are two reasons. One, is to reduce the amount of time the electronics are powered up when not actually operating the engine. Even when an engine is shut down, the electronics are still powered (or the engine wouldn't be able to hear a power up or start command). Maybe this isn't a real world concern and the electronics last forever but it seems like a good preventive. What do you all think?
The other reason is to prevent engine creep, where they spontaneously start to creep along the track after they've been stopped. I haven't had this happen with DCS but my TMCC/Legacy engines definitely do this periodically which can lead to some holy $&%# moments.
I always felt the same as O ROAD and removed the power to my spurs where I parked trains that waited to be used. Not only for the electronics in the engines but also for the lighting in cabooses and passenger cars. I never run conventional so as a common practice, so that I do not need a watch dog signal for all my toggled spurs, I perform a few simple steps to all my engines. First thing is to turn the conventional volume and smoke controls off. Second, for safety reasons, is to lock the engine in conventional neutral and apply a small label to the bottom of the engine that says "locked in neutral" just as a reminder to unlock it if I go to sell it. Now whenever any engine misses the watch dog signal for any reason, it will sit there safely and not take off at full throttle, if the power is accidentally interrupted a second time. Last, before shutting down the engine and killing power to the spur after parking it, I turn the engines lights off manually. When power is applied to the spur, the engine sits dark and silent just the same as it would normally. I then find the engine in the remote, hit the start up button, and start it just like you normally but without lights. Once that is done and the engine comes alive, just like a real engineer, I manually turn the lights on before pulling out. If you do mind having to turn your lights on manually, don't bother to shut them off before shutting down. This technique has worked flawlessly for me, on my spurs, without having to change or add anything to the layout.
Dave, how do you manage to get all the engine lights off when it comes up in conventional mode?
GRJ, I manually turn them off before shutting down, although it's not really mandatory for me to have an engines lights be dark when the spur is powered up, all the time. What I really don't like is the sound and smoke coming on. So there is no need to have those conventional options turned on or the capability for conventional movement. MTH should recommend neutral locking of engines in their manual when running in DCS mode. It would help to cut back on repairs that come in because of take off crashes.
I'm planning on using the "barking watchdog" on my sidings. 
GRJ. I have your barking set up and will employ it on my next layout. It's a great idea. But for those who need a fix until they have your system, what I suggested, is a safe and reliable temporary fix.
O Road posted:To answer engineer-joe's question of why you'd want to fully shut down,
Dave Zucal posted:I always felt the same as O ROAD and removed the power to my spurs where I parked trains
My question was what shutting down had to do with gaining control on a block's power up.
It wasn't about any benefits of shutting down.
Actually savings are not set at shutdown via DCS. Think about it. If they were you would not need a battery for DCS at all. But what we do know is if you do any changes and just shutdown via dcs, nothing is permanently transferred to memory until power is turned off. Do a factory reset with no battery and see if it sticks. It won't. G
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