Will we ever see a SD70ACe or ES44AC produced in plastic that is similar in quality to the Overland Models brass engines?

I'd also love to see nicely detailed modern diesels but to get that detail one would have parts braking on them as the mass of the model works against the strength of the fine plastic parts. I could see where the superstructure not being a one piece but a shell where most if not all parts be metal and added on. Like fine molded on stirups just don't work as they break easy especially when repackaging to store away. These models are so tightly squeezed into their shipping boxes and heavy that fine parts suffer. I like Atlas's new clear view wrap around shipping containers but heavy engines, I think, won't ship well that way.

But yes, i wish Atlas would get the act together and go back to the production schedules they used to work with. I have been waiting for yrs now on this 8-40CW release. Now, like this thread headlines, be great for an announcement of Sd70s and ES44s

Phil  

I will certainly buy a BNSF & a Union Pacific ES44AC. I love my MTH scale-wheeled ES44AC from last year but I will certainly support any other manufacturer who would bring out these models.

But I have a concern about these latest models & I hope someone on this forum could provide some feedback. I was always interested in the O-Scale models of contemporary trains but contemporary keeps changing. We have been asking for a better ES44AC (& SD70ACe) since the beginning of this year without much success. But in 5 months the prototype ES44AC as we know it will cease production. All locomotives built for US railroad use after Jan 1, 2015 will need to be EPA Tier IV compliant. GE has been testing their Tier IV locomotives. The middle & rear end of these test units do not look like the current Evolution locomotives. Since these GE locomotives are pre-production locomotives I am not certain if the production versions will look different.  So will that diminish the interest for the ES44AC at the beginning of this thread if it is no longer the latest model like Apple I-Phones?

Here are some images of the Tier IV GE Evolution locomotives.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...ography/10108512496/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...neebush/10045791905/

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

That's a very valid point. Some manufacturers are using "flex tooling" where certain road-specific differences can be produced (Santa Fe Gullwing cabs for example). GE and EMD seem to have settled in on cab designs they like, so the long hood details, length, and frame are what will likely change. If the tooling can be built to handle several configurations, then the manufacturers won't have a high an expense in producing the variants. Time will tell.

I take Phill's point, above.

A plastic model loaded with fiddly bits just isn't a good thing.

I would happily (well, not me-I don't do modern diseaseldom) take a plastic model with exactingly correct contours and size with minimal added-on jewelry, and perfect running qualities, along with a means to buy whatever extra jewelry needed to make it match the prototype  of choice-such as acquiring passenger pilots for the PRR E-7 that Sunset imported.

Anything is possible.

If the question is "can we have models in plastic that are as good as brass, with identical detailing and fidelity for a quarter the price of brass?" I am going to guess NO.

The answer could be YES if there were as many O Scalers as there are HO modelers.

Opinion, of course.

Although the Lionel unit may be nice the coupers and lack of full length handrails takeaway a great amount of detail. Add those items and it shapes up much better. 

Some of the latest HO models at the recent NMRA show are superb examples of what can be produced in a plastic model with many added details, The big three in O guage MTH,Lionel and Atlas and Weaver and Sunset all have to build to there primary 3 rail market and to a lesser extent 2 rail. More expensive, highly detailed[more fragile]do not market that well to the primary market for these companys. Atlas to there credit has produced a number of highly detailed Mline cars, not inexpensive but in todays market this is the trade off between a less expensive more durable train and a true scale model and the reason even if or when their factory problems are resolved I do not believe Atlas will do a diesel to the detail level of the Trinity carsJMO

Jae-Gil of ATM- good guy! In his element at the factory

Image Copyright (c) Erik C Lindgren

Interesting........................14,463 views of these posts!  

There is a market that much is certain. Not an opinion

If the market is certain, the opportunity to make a risk-free fortune is there.  Go for it.

Always a pessimist.. 

Bob2 your like a conscience for all of us.. a reality check 

A Corvette or the 24 hours a LeMans winner Ford GT Mk40? Ford re-made the Mk40 in the late 90s and it is selling in the 250,000 range.

A great model speaks for it's self; has anyone produced a "great" model, regardless of the materials used...

Rick

Bill Clouser, Joe Fischer,many others.  Media is not the determining factor whether a model is a masterpiece.

It's all a matter of quantity vs price.

Good Evening,

I'm ready........................ for SD70ACe's or ES44AC's produced in plastic that are similar in quality to the Overland Models brass!

Did I ever mention, I never give up!

Regards, Swafford

Fantastic craftsmanship!

Did I already ask this?  Are we lusting after plastic models because the injection molding process produces superior detail, or are we lusting for brass quality at plastic prices?

A very short run of plastic models will cost more than a very short run of brass.  If you can put up with the relatively less crisp details in a brass model, Midwest Model Works appears ready to produce the definitive Diesel model in O Scale.

Good Day, 

I would prefer the plastic models with superior detail. 

Regards, 

Swafford

 MTH has been releasing very good quality plastic versions for the price point. They are stronger runners. They would provide a great base for those that want to add their own detailing upgrades. They have already added several road and model specific upgrades themselves. I have several versions of the SD70ACe for example that show this. If one wanted to, they could upgrade the hose, piping, and handrails themselves. With the vertical motors taking up real estate, they can never be totally accepted. 

 At some point, the OMI detail level could be reached with plastic and it already has. If you'd compare older brass releases with the most recent plastic, I believe it just becomes a battle of dollars.

 Atlas for instance tried to make higher detailed plastic diesel releases. The market didn't seem to accept them widely. If they did, Atlas would probably be much more successful. I believe the market is much slower to accept things. By the time it does, and average company would go out of business. It takes larger companies to ride out the market demands and acceptance. I see guys looking for older Atlas two rail models now, that were released 10 years ago! (myself included). It's a battle of releasing plastic at rock bottom prices that will sell quickly.

 So we try to lobby someone else to get involved with importing models that combine everything we want. Higher detailing, superior sound and control, and high quality running gear. Trouble is, the market is still divided with control systems. Lionel sought after a market share with their metal shelled modern diesel release. It mainly quenched three railers from leaving their market for better detail.

 The few customers that will actually pay for this level of superior detail in O, are the ones that already buy the OMI models. They must stay ahead of the plastic mass produced models that are slowly moving forward. I imagine they might withdraw from O, because of the lower volume sales vs. investment. Why tie up company resources for little profit margin and just bragging rights? The HO market size and demand, probably leaves much more room for their releases to generate big cash?

 We will be talking about how come the OMI O scale releases weren't overwhelming successes someday soon. The models that were sold, will be records of the level of detail for their day.

When I was a kid the Varney F-3 sold for around $15 - a huge sum.  Then Globe made an excellent plastic F-7 for 95 cents.  I am not sure of the moral of that story.

In O scale, we had fairly good brass imports - an IHB 3-cylinder switcher started at a couple hundred and rose all the way to maybe $900 on the used market.  An infinitely better plastic version made it to the market -twelve bucks, and twelve more for the motorizing kit.  Granted, the motorizing kit was not very robust, but you would think that would have sunk the brass version.  Nope.

How many here would rush out and buy a plastic 2-rail scale Lionel 700E for, say, $300?

It may take some time to educate modelers to the idea that plastic is a superior medium. It is, and there is no way I am going to collect superior plastic models.  It is metal and wood for me  - irrational though that may be.

Quality is not detail.    Quality is when the mfg does what they say.   the definition of quality is "say what you are going to do, and then do what you said you would do".    It does matter if it a cheap 10 cent product or 100k italian sports car.    Either could be good quality or bad quality.

What this thread is about is features.   There are obviously features of the OMI models that some feel are more desirable than the MTH models.  

As for detail level between mass-produced and generic plastic/diecast models vs hand assembled brass models.    I think the brass will always tend to have better levels of details for models built about the same time.   Also since they are individually assembled, more variations are possible for the same price.    Inherently also, brass superstructures can have thinner cross sections than either plastic or diecast and still be relatively sturdy.    Even the very new very nice plastic models still have too thick sidewalls on cabs when looking at the window frames.   

Modern plastic models are much more detailed than in the past and do compare very well with older brass.   But you may notice that most of the finer detail parts are still brass or metal such as grab irons, ladders, lift rings etc.   

Each of us has to decide what level of detail we want on our layouts.   Do we want each piece to be museum quality?    Or do we want the whole layout to be "good enough" but still sturdy enough to run on a regular basis?   

I think what the proponents are saying is, given two equal models, they would rather purchase the plastic one for the same price.  I submit that that is a minority position, and not likely to become a choice.

Nowhere near enough....

I guess I missed that point.    It is certainly a valid choice.    

Those of us old timers who grew up drooling over brass and not being able to afford it, probably feel just the opposite.    If the price is the same for the same model, we would opt for brass.   

To: mwb,

Well darn!!!  I always enjoy Martin's post as he is very knowledgable, and a VERY accomplished modeler, at least in my opinion.

Not a problem.  Apparently I misread the intent of the OP's and that actually answering the questions honestly is not what he really wanted.......  I guess he just wanted everyone to join his granfalloon.

So it goes.

Actually I'm still waiting for Frank to sign up for the F7 demonstrators he said he wanted.  That thread is locked so I can't respond there.