Will we ever see a SD70ACe or ES44AC produced in plastic that is similar in quality to the Overland Models brass engines?

Richard,

This is a frequent exchange where I have the Sunset / GGD banners out at shows:

 attendee - "you should really do an XYZ".

 me: "how many will you purchase?"

 attendee: "oh, I don't want any but you guys should do it."

Well, to get back on track, here is another pesky opinion:  I believe most folks in 2- rail scale regard plastic as cheap, no matter how much it costs or how detailed it is.

The 3-rail crowd likes plastic Diesels, but cannot have a steam or electric model in anything but die cast.

So, in my opinion, the only truly scale plastic will be, like the 3rd Rail E-7, aimed primarily at the 3-rail scale folks, and 2-railers will have to suffer the compromises.

Again - just opinion.

Bob,

I would share your sentiments but here is a fact:

- the first run of Sunset FT diesels are basically sold out. 50 in 3 rail and 400 in 2 rail.

That was a surprise to me, but I'll add that the 2 rail guys really like the drive system Scott is using in his diesels. And a semblance of road specific details also helps.

Plus, Jonathan Pfeiffer's work on the graphics has been a good selling point.

Bob H. you beat me to it.  The 2 rail market has really embraced the plastic models and the drive system much more than the 3 rail market.  Granted I was one of the 50 on the FT 3 rail models (well 4) but that was because the FT never saw the NY&LB, the PRR or the CNJ so 3 rail Santa Fe plays well at my Southwest themed club. 

However, the price point of these models has made 2 rail accessible to people like myself who thanks to the recession are on modest incomes and have to choose wisely when it comes to discretionary spending on trains.  I can say that the PRR side of my 2 rail roster is well populated with the right equipment and all Sunset locomotive powered even if the CNJ is severely lacking.  It is all thanks to the time Scott has invested in bringing a superior product to the market at this price point.

As to the graphics work, don't blow my ego up too big.   Just doing a job and a very enjoyable one at that that wouldn't be possible without all the help I have received from the modeling community. 

Well, I was just about to admit my opinion is factually incorrect - but then I figured I would ask: would these two projects have been better recieved if they had been designed for 2-rail only with "Overland" levels of detail?  Could you make it 450 total two rail, and if 3-rail folks wanted them, charge more for a conversion kit?  Isn't that what the OP was asking for?

I believe this is exactly the answer the OP was seeking.  For me, had that E-7 been die cast, I probably would have had to have one.

One thing to keep in mind is that the E7 was the first project of this type for Sunset in what is now into its 4th generation.  The FTs are certainly not the E7s.  As good as the E7s were, the FL9s were an improvement, the FP7s yet another improvement and the FTs really taking this medium even further.

I really see these models as being designed now for the 2 rail community and the compromises being made for the 3 rail models.  All wheel drive, all powered units, fixed pilots and fully programmable command systems have all been based around the what the 2 rail community is looking for. 

I used to prefer die cast or brass, but honestly there is so little difference now with the level of detailing on the FTs that once it's painted it doesn't matter much what it's made of as long as it runs well and pulls the right amount of cars.  The ABBA FT with four horizontal shaft motors is a formidable puller capable of doing the prototype real justice.

Hello Erik,

I stand corrected then. Thanks for the information. When and where can I find out about the EMD Demo F7 ABA set from Key Model Imports?  Will these engines be DC only? 

Best Regards, 

Frank

All you have to do is email Scott and tell him what you will sign up for.  They are not listed on his website.  I think he has sufficient numbers now but the more the better chance.

So are we agreed that the FT is as good as any Overland brass at half the price?  If so, Frank has his answer - as soon as there are 500 firm orders it is surely a "go".

That means my previous posts are simply off base.  Plastic as good as Overland brass at half price is a realistic possibility, at least at the 500 piece point.

I admit to being somewhat surprised - both at the cost of such a low number of units and at the comparison to high end brass.

Actually, you can get an Overland AB FT set for about the same price; $1100.  But that is without the DCC, probably unfinished and is 20 years older.  Key FTs will be about $3000 for an AB set. 

I do believe I said about 7 or 8 pages ago that if you could get 500 reservations for an $1100 SD70ACe or ES44 that might be doable.  It will have to be pretty much only the 2-rail crowd that is not OK with the MTH 2-rail version for less than half the price.

Funniest thing I've read next to Dilbert,

 Bunch of people are sitting in a bar. New people come in and the regulars attack anyone they don't like. They think everyone laughs with them so they get worse with each time this happens.

 New bar opens across the street. Some of the crowd for the "old" bar starts leaving when they hear how much fun it is to be in the new bar. The atmosphere in the old bar is crumbling. Pretty soon the new bar starts offering specials and welcoming new customers.

 The "old" bar closes and leaves no where for those "regulars" to go. Do they go across the street and fear the same rejection they have offered for so long? All that "wisdom" now goes to waste. No one remembers them as they are now having too much fun.

I'll buy you a pint or 3 and we can discuss the merits of post-modern industrialism,

This thread has gone all over the place. It is funny to see Bob2 get tripped up on his facts.

I agree mostly with PRRJim.

Most of the 0 Scalers I know don't care what things are made of, they are just comparing the fidelity of the model. Until recently, that happened to mean you'd be talking about brass models.

I think the highest end brass models today are EXCEEDING the levels of acceptance for most people. The high end brass models are causing other importers to raise their levels TO a level of acceptance for most people.

I'll use an example that is brass vs. brass so I don't ruffle any plastic lovers feathers. I own and run Sunset and Kohs brass Y6 engines. The Sunset level meets the level I will accept. The Kohs models exceed the level I need. If they were made in plastic, that would be okay with me, too.

Also, I think Martin's tagline about art students is very funny and I was one, and saw first hand all of the students who the tagline was referring to.

I don't know, I don't see the discussion as being overly grief filled. It has been entertaining.

Indeed!

This thread has gone all over the place. It is funny to see Bob2 get tripped up on his facts.

Nope.  Ever since the late Ed Reutling got so frosted about my "facts" I have appended "opinion" on almost every assertion I have made.  That is so you know that I am not posting what I believe to be factual information.  Bob Heil and Jonathan posted actual facts that proved my opinions wrong.  In fact, their recent posts have completely answered the original question - it is now clear that the OP can have exactly what he wanted, so long as there are 500 other like- minded O Scalers.

I am now in what appears to be a minority of a minority - my hobby is not plastic models, no matter how good.  And as Christopher and I have said, they are indeed good.

+1.  Those are also my thoughts, but stated better than I could.   If an acceptable model was available in plastic, I prefered it to a brass one -- not only due to first cost, but because I have found that plastic models are generally easier to detail / modify and to maintain than brass ones  -- but if the prototype I "needed" wasn't made in plastic then I bought it in brass.  If I were restocking my layout within the last, say, five years a higher proportion of models would be plastic -- or, as they say nowdays, "mixed construction".  [ I've used "plastic" above in the sense "other than brass".]

Of course, much of the higher end brass continues to be made for either display or those folks who are perfectly happy to, say, comingle UP articulateds with their B&O EM-1, rather than those who model railroads.

I'd also agree with prrjim,  except for where he describes himself as an "old timer" -- and its connotation for me.......

Best regards, SZ