World's Smallest Freight Motor?

Wow, you sure came up with some curiosities.  So which one will you model?

Electroliner, those are great locos. I'm curious what you'd use for the verticle gear drive...NWSL?...maybe a carpet drive on one axle...?

I'm seeking the same thing, of sorts....got plans for both the Mack 12 or 15 tonner, a lone 1/50th mack AC nose{I'd resin copy it}, all the plastic I'd need to build it{a whole lot that is} but the drive escapes me.

I have all those same problems...trying to build "critters"...gas electrics, rail buses, steam dummies, etc....in three rail...finding a usable drive train/chassis and then the correct side frames...Is that a commercial source you found for side frames?  The

problem with scratchbuilding a McKeen car is that front truck....

I have all those same problems...trying to build "critters"...gas electrics, rail buses, steam dummies, etc....in three rail...finding a usable drive train/chassis and then the correct side frames...Is that a commercial source you found for side frames?  The

problem with scratchbuilding a McKeen car is that front truck....

Oops...something went wrong...not trying to be an echo..

Bob 

This might help. If this doesn't work, there are others. Let me know..I just didn't want to carpet bomb you with links. These are O scale vintage frame designs that might fit in with your project rather than more modern ones. Heres an example of a Baldwin..They also carry insulated and non insulated wheel sets...,also drives. I know the real McKeen used a chain drive. A great book on McKeen experiences is in a book "The Woodstock and Sycamore" At one point, these guys derailed and ran one bumping down the street. It was supposed to be a trolley line but they couldn't afford the wire(?)

One thing I learned from the book was that Fairbanks Morse made a gas car that looked like a Brill Trolley..Another good book on early gas cars is "Old Maud" In the video at 1:58 theres an example.

They experimented with some wacky examples.

http://www.qcarcompany.com/lis...ck_Hardware.html#THS

Bruce

How bout this as a quirky prototype?

Hah, and to think I was just about to tell you that McKeen did make a 3 axle boxcab...ya beat me to it!

Ok...a few ideas for 3 rail projects.... grab any 2 rail power truck and try and add two brass center rail shoes to the bottom of it...try and make sure they won't swing side to side to prevent shorts...think "T" shape here. See pic for my future attempt at this-

Or...you can look here for my new idea...it's in the mail but mine is black framed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONEL-O-27-TRAINS-GP-DIESEL-ENGINE-DC-MOTOR-POWER-TRUCK-8369-101-BLACK-SIDES-/181118865475?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2a2b869043

Add another p/u truck and some kind of E/reverse and viola..pending your wheel center needs.

Hmmm, per the Old Maud theme, take that a step further and toss a shortened passenger body on it as an inspection engine...or whatever....that'd be different.

Yup, got that side frame link on On30 faves...was searching car bodies and found it.

...well, what is the problem? You can buy styrene or brass, scale up a side truck frame and build it close or as close as needed...can't ya? 

If I am not mistaken, there is a small motor available that actually is in the truck, and is used by traction modelers.  Didn't Sunset/3rd Rail use this on their beautiful Budd RDC cars a few years ago?

Madison

I would gladly do that in terms of a rightful credit but you have done that very effectively yourself and I am glad you responded, although we both would have preferred a less awkward stumble on my part.  A visit to your encyclopedic website on the subject is  more than well worth the time of anyone interested in McKeen. Its the most comprehensive I have come across. I apologise if I accidently stepped on your toes. What began your interest in McKeen?

Bob

All of this came out of the frustration I had from no decent three rail interurbans.I bought the Lionel K-Line CNS&M cars which were an improvement over the originals but the conductor sounds like he inhaled helium after popping amphetamines. My sister burst out laughing..I said I know, it's ridiculous..someone at Lionel has a weird sense of humor.

I am reworking the cars and I just ordered some better poles, after adding anticlimbers, diaphragms, etc. Its a subset of my overall interests.If I didn't stretch myself with this freight motor I would ditch the non prototype roofs that irk me. And this is from a guy who likes tinplate. Go figure this contradiction.  Your comment made me think of trying the ever elusive steeplecab in three rail as the next one. But..first things first. I always felt intimidated about casting thinking I would screw it up. I think it's time to get over it. I did see an article on making wood molds and baking plexiglass over then for curvilinear shapes. Dang if I didn't lose the magazine years ago. The guy then simply made plastic shapes and glued them on after shaping the roofs and bodies as one piece.. . I wish I had a picture. It was the IT articulated streamliner. Came out beautifully.

The W&OD had quite a few shop built oddities - one of my earliest scratchbuilding efforts was #26. 

Now I have to go find out where I put it!

MWB

I would really like to see yours. I can't imagine how you pulled that off. Didn't that road change over to gas-electrics? I have a vague memory of that.

Bruce

Bruce, I had an interest in traction too even way back when...G scale didn't have much of anything in the way interurban or trolley stuff when I came into it 20+ years ago...heck, they still don't have bilevel commutor cars. I've recently found out that my home town used to have cantenary and not only interurbans running thru town but 70 or so ton electrics for freight too. So, modeling some of that would be cool.

I now have my email addy in my profile...when the time comes for you to cast give me a yell! While there are possible pitfalls, once you start you won't want to stop.

Another thing to look into would vacu forming roofs and the like...make a box with a bunch of holes in the top, set a master on it and toss it in the oven, when the plastic is drooping pull it out, drop the frame that holds the plastic sheet and hit it with vacuum{as in cleaner}...let it cool and trim.

Don't remind me about lost mags...back in '96 my house got flooded and I lost about 20 train shed cyclopedias and my milwaukee road 2-c-c-2 A-A I was making...that hurt on multiple counts...time to find some more mags and start again in O this time- I want one that'll handle 0-36 curves since everything out there has an 0-72 limit.

I'd like to see it myself!  I put it into a box 15-20+ years ago and I hope it's "somewhere" under the layout.  I'm sure that back then I made a lot of compromises and that it's got a Bowser trolley drive under it, too.  Now I have to go find and be embarrassed by the efforts of my youth.

Still, it's one of those that caught my eye and started me on scratchbuilding.  Could inspire me to re-visit it and do it over.

W&OD also went to small diesels, but had all sorts of oddities. 

mwb

I have lost count of how many times I misplaced tools, screws, parts and even my own wallet. I am sort of loathe to admit it, but I have ( more than once) gone out and bought some little part after an extensive search only to find it afterward in some misbegotten location that I had "thrown it" in haste. A brief, mumbled self cussing ensues. Cleaning the layout room was a real eye opener and I'm still sorting things out and organising  parts bins but I have a kind of attention deficit disorder about it..I swear to myself to clean this mess up, and then plug the layout in and run trains instead.Don't even ask about my chaotic wiring. I see these articles with color coding neat parallel lines, and think hmmm..one day I should get around to that as well.  

Bruce

Madison

It is great to hear from you and it's heartening and inspiring to hear about what you have both accomplished and are trying to do, all of which makes my own accomplishments in comparison, at your age of fourteen.. non existent. I wish you the very best of luck in anything you try further. Theres hope for this hobby as well as rail preservation!

Bruce

Been there and done that too many times.  I usually find the missing part long after I needed it and frequently seem to find it by stepping on it.

I did clear out the layout room once and did inventory everything - but that was just the 2-rail models. 

I never even looked at the 3-rail stuff to inventory it!!!    There's an entire wall cabinet under the layout that I totally have not opened in 15 years.  Kind of scary actually as I will find other "stuff" that I built in additon to all of the commercial stuff.....

Oh well!  If that's what it takes to locate my version of the W&OD #26, so be it.  Sleep is over-rated,

BTW, great stuff on the McKeen cars!   

MWB

The step on it method works for me as well. Another is the telltale clink coming from the vacuum cleaner. The wife method works. "Whats this?" "It would take me an hour to explain what it is and I know you don't care about this bit anyway..." "True.." A whosit to a whatsit.  Our cat is helpful, scuttling around some shiny detail part. What have you got there? I ask. Oh, Ive been looking for that..I very effectively hide my failed experiments from prying eyes. I repainted a Marx small switcher. Although it turned out o.k..after eyeing it quite abit, I realised I had jumped the shark..the dreaded over-decoration syndrome. It was an odd case of neither being a good tinplate or a good scale model. It now resides in a box ( if I could find it)

Bruce

Madison, nice site and I just liked ya on FB.

My next venture is a modern KcKeen knock off...two lionel observations connected together and shortened up a tad. One of the things I'd love to do is make myself a scaled McKeen car someday...it's on the list of things to do....a rather large list. 

I'm not the only one?! I did that when we moved in here 10yrs ago...stashed a bunch of G scale cars in a big base cabinet and forgot about it till 2 weeks ago...sometimes the thrill of the hunt is what you find in your own home! I should go check the attic!

We could start the brotherhood of "is that where that got off to!"

Just posted on the FB page...nice drawings of the KcKeen, might have to download those for future reference.

Now, I know your young, but Athern HO used to be rubber band drive...I've got one too. Picture a centered dual shaft motor connected to extending rods that run to front and back of the chassis, picture the drive trucks having drums on the axles and the rubber band running at an angle from the top drive shaft down around the drum- yes it pivots! To keep your interior intact you'd want to mount the motor and shaft in the frame yet tall enough to give clearance for the rubber drive- if you choose that route. If you have the funding you could buy a carpet drive from north west shortline{search-NWSL}, if that body is metal like it looks like, there should be enough weight to give one drive unit enough traction. 

Madison

 One suggestion outside of or parallel to direct sales is searching on Ebay under O Interurban or O Trolley Parts. Of course they are mostly two rail. Another is to look for Bowser drives under Bowser trolleys as a donor unit. Prices run from the ridiculous to the sublime. I saw a couple of complete interurban drive units go through in the past couple of weeks. Might be worth a shot with nothing to lose. heres one @$60.00 direct. I could donate some truck frames but I can't match the lead McKeen truck..You could lengthen the Bowser unit to get the right distance between trucks easy enough..by some splicing. Heres the link...

http://bowser-trains.com/oscale/corgi/corgi.htm

PS

Hey, wheres the horse, the trolley pole? This one would be a piece of cake as there are enough four wheel trolleys around to float a boat. I wouldn't want to be the engine mechanic on that with radiators on top and the engine underneath. I guess it might be easier than replacing a chewed up chain drive or similar. Much cussing might have ensued.."Not that thing again!  ..I need a sick day."

Bruce

That's a tough challenge - only time I've seen that done really correct was on the older Kidder brass import. 

Madison, check this link, page 13...the LH column is 2 rail - the RH column is 3 rail.

Those carpet drives will nee an external center rail pick up as I doubt they'd be "on" the drive itself - I could be wrong there as I've never seen a 3 rail carpet drive, but they do exist.

The flea drive is being revamped...when, I don't know, but it's comming I guess. An email to NWSL might shed some light as to when.

http://www.nwsl.com/uploads/ca..._for_web_3-01-13.pdf

Another option would be to run a centered motor{dual shaft} and run NWSL gearboxes to either{or both} truck{s} to drive them.

mwb

Your comment might reflect the conversation on resin casting. I wouldn't anticipate a really detailed casting could be molded @ home ( since I don't that much) but I suppose details could be added later. BTW your comment sent me a search..this is on the W&OD. Why can't manufacturers have some imagination? A rhetorical question if there ever was one. The wheel well covers look like they are vented (?)

Just the simple truck frame as a basis would be a neat accomplishment. The question in my mind that would hold me back is how you would attach the frame casting to the rest of the truck, and then to the bolster? Screws and Epoxy might be used? It seems like a mix of dissimilar materials, how do you hold the thing together as an integral unit?

Bob, How did you do that in G?  What about this...workable? 12 volt nominal.

http://www.micromark.com/motor-drive-system,9872.html

Maybe a match to the drive here?

http://www.micromark.com/SearchResult.aspx?deptIdFilter=0&searchPhrase=miniature+gears

Bruce

Pretty standard option - could also use Weaver drive components.

Electroliner, I am enjoying following your saga... a few years ago, I had a 3-rail interurban themed layout - using the Western Hobbycraft trolleys as a 'base' for creating 'unique' cars.  I live by the former lines for the Woodstock and Sycamore line, and one summer traced what i could of their ROW. 

-Bruce, in G scale things are just two rail like HO and On30. To hang a carpet drive{I used tandem} on a single truck was easy...brass wipers or paper clips on the inside of the wheels were simple power pick ups and less noticable than the dang shoes the production companys loved to use. For 3 rail O it'd be a tad different needing both outside wheels on one power pick up and the center rail could be tapped via a brass shoe or wiper...make sure it doesn't swing or hit the outside rails!

 As far as resin casting details...heck, if you leave a thumb nail mark and/or paint have of the master with flat and the other side with gloss- it will show in the cast parts. Nuts, bolts, washers can be added details before or after the casting process- your call- but I'd do it before. I could start tossing casting ideas in here, but your actual thread was for smallest engines...your call...to put the casting ideas here would leave them open to all who follow..or search and find...this thread- your call.{I can happily email it all to ya too...}

Doug, hello fellow Illinoisan{think that's right}....got any pics of those cars you built?

Doug and Bob

I can't believe this. I spent most of my life up until my twenties growing up in Illinois at the branch terminus of the CNS&M..Mundelein. Must be karma.

Bruce