(07/12/21) SOLD OUT! Santa Fe F3 Diesel Locomotive from Menards!

@RixTrack posted:

My guess is that they thought were “finished” with them when they showed up from the factory.  Then, some of the people tried running them and realized that there were issues that needed addressed. So they made a decision to circulate the product at low margin to cover their costs and solicit feedback from experienced users.

I was thinking this exact thing.

A company I worked for years ago had an annual employee picnic and each year they would get everyone a nice gift.  They had about 1400 employees.  Well one year they decided to get everyone one of those nice folding camping chairs that fold up into a bag, in the company colors with their logo on it.  While the company was involved in manufacturing, it was more on a military scale with big metal things - things like armor and ships etc.  Well for these chairs, they decided to order them from China because they found a place that would let you customize them and they were cheap.  This was around 2003 or so.  So, while China was full steam into the manufactured goods segment - not everyone was wise to their tricks.

The chairs showed up in a 40 ft intermodal container stacked to the ceiling.  No boxes.  No bags.  No pallets.  Nothing but chairs.  It took the loading dock guys quite a while to unload those things and I have no idea how they got them to the picnic.

Weeks later after the event, I was at a campfire with some friends and I leaned to the side to grab my beer and down I went.  I'm not a "skinny" guy but I don't go around breaking chairs that often.  I copped it up to a defect and moved on.  Well one by one, everyone's chairs started to break.  The company was lucky they didn't end up with a lawsuit had someone fell and hit their head or something.

There are some wonderful products that are made in China - but man you have to watch the manufacturing process like a hawk.  You also need to specify EVERYTHING.  You want it in boxes - specify exactly what you want.  You want it palletized, better be on the requirements document.  The manufacturing is sometimes like this giant powerful saw that will cut down any tree and make amazing things with the wood.  But if you are doing the ordering, YOU are the saw's operator and you need to really know your stuff so you don't get ripped off when "renting" the saw.

OMG!!!!!

What is it with all you people who like to bring up conspiracies?     Can't take Mark at his word?    And we can stop with the lessons on doing business with China.   It gets posted in almost every thread that deals with products coming from there....and usually by the same few people.

I'd say, "get a hobby," apparently some of you already have one:   "Dissect and negatively commentate on every business decision by train companies, without any solid backup information.

I can’t wait for Menards to apply some of the requested fixes. So looking forward to a plethora of road names. You’ve created a lot of excitement Menards. Thank you, Thank you!

@EscapeRocks posted:

OMG!!!!!

What is it with all you people who like to bring up conspiracies?     Can't take Mark at his word?    And we can stop with the lessons on doing business with China.   It gets posted in almost every thread that deals with products coming from there....and usually by the same few people.

I'd say, "get a hobby," apparently some of you already have one:   "Dissect and negatively commentate on every business decision by train companies, without any solid backup information.

What conspiracies are you talking about? I think Menards is making some great business decisions.  Nothing negative about it.  I’m just happy to have another F-unit variant that might become widely available.  Lionel and MTH never did an FP7!

Nice engine so far. Ran it for a while with a legacy engine on the same track with a 180 powerhouse . Starts and stops were kind of rough. Found it ran a little smother through a ZWC  just setting the Menards remote up a little ways and controlling the voltage through the Legacy Cab 2. Using that setup put it on a track with a steep grade like 7" in about 12' of track uphill. Engine was hooked to 12 cars which have weights in them to bring up to standards. Having those cars behind took care of the fast starts and stops. Engine ran smooth up and down the grade no problem pulling the cars. Ran on that track for a half hour or so and engine showed no sign of getting  over heated. The engine ran smother and better than the Lionel GP9 which has 2 can motors in the trucks that normally pulls that train.

Bottom Line...... IT'S A TOY!!!!!! Who cares about colors, what type it is, as long as it runs, pulls a decent consist and reliable.  Maybe just maybe it will bring newcomers into this great hobby which seems to be pricing themselves out of business.  For around $150 what a bargain. And also who cares who made it.

KUDOS to the Menards people!!!

@Elevatorman posted:

Bottom Line...... IT'S A TOY!!!!!! Who cares about colors, what type it is, as long as it runs, pulls a decent consist and reliable.

Most of the comments have been generally favorable about this locomotive AND Mark from Menards DID solicit input about any frailties.

Maybe just maybe it will bring newcomers into this great hobby which seems to be pricing themselves out of business.  For around $150 what a bargain. And also who cares who made it.

I would assume Menards would like to know where the product could be improved.  If things like the weak battery clip in the remotes aren't addressed and result in excessive returns by John Q. Public they will be of no value to newcomers.

Rusty

KUDOS to the Menards people!!!

I think it's a great looking locomotive and hope to see other fallen flags since I already have several Santa Fe F units. Like someone mentioned earlier a dummy unit and B unit would be a nice addition. Hopefully Mark will post a thread asking members what road names they prefer.

@Elevatorman posted:

Bottom Line...... IT'S A TOY!!!!!! Who cares about colors, what type it is, as long as it runs, pulls a decent consist and reliable.  Maybe just maybe it will bring newcomers into this great hobby which seems to be pricing themselves out of business.  For around $150 what a bargain. And also who cares who made it.

KUDOS to the Menards people!!!

Just think of the potential new market Menards could be serving here. How many folks are in a train store looking for paint, flooring, lumber etc???? With the addition of motive power, and I'm sure RTR sets to come as well, impulse buys should cover the R&D cost by themselves. Have you seen the price of the Straburg # 90?

I have many of their cars and they are well made and are a fraction of the cost of the regular mfrs. I would buy the buildings too but my layout is too small.

The feedback Mark and the team are getting just on this thread are worth more than any fancy marketing consultant could provide. So let's leave the conspiracy theories on the shelf and enjoy the moment and what's to come.

I'm still in awe that Menard's jumped into the pond with a powered unit.  It adds a whole new dimension to their existing train line, and I surely hope they expand that part of the lineup.

John,

I am hoping the lineup is varied, robust and long lived!

@RSJB18 posted:

The feedback Mark and the team are getting just on this thread are worth more than any fancy marketing consultant could provide. So let's leave the conspiracy theories on the shelf and enjoy the moment and what's to come.

With 14 thread pages, and who knows how many more may follow, if Menards doesn't see what worked and what didn't for this loco, then I guess not more can be said here by us OGRers.

@Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

I opted to mist the shiny trucks and pilot with Tamiya Silver Leaf. I like the difference.

Steve

Wow Steve! Now that made a HUGE difference.

And in case you thought Menards was just  lumber, paint and hardware and now trains, here comes Menards coffee!!

https://www.menards.com/main/l...m_campaign=30D2-2021(1)&utm_content=Great-Value-Marcella&spMailingID=33520239&spUserID=NDE5NzIxMDI2NDI0S0&spJobID=1984375981&spReportId=MTk4NDM3NTk4MQS2

But we can drink the their coffee while admiring the Menards loco pulling Menards cars past Menards buildings. There, kept the thread focus on trains!

I didn’t get one but have been following this thread very closely. It seems that the glaring issues that I would be concerned about for my purchase are remote contacts, packaging for cosmetics and the quick start.  I am not concerned about the number boards and for night running they look kind of cool.  The packaging could be corrected with a simple foam sheet across the top of the engine and will still display nicely on retail shelving. There might need to be a slight redesign for the copper contacts in the remote, still a simple fix.  The jackrabbit starts might be correctable with something as simple as wiring motors in a series.  None of my MPC engines have flywheels and it has never been an issue, however they are nice.

Now down to the real reason for my post this morning.   I believe you have a chance to reach out to beginners, budget minded operators and collectors.

         Yes I said collectors !  Find unique road names, prototypical or not and produce a limited number of each.   I am not in for a Santa Fe or New York Central, I can get those anywhere but come up with some railroads that have flashy paint schemes and  that haven’t  been done to death and I will be in for one of each.  Then all of a sudden, instant collectible, I will have to have one of everyone produced.  You might even snag a high end collector/operator because of that road name they can’t get anywhere else ( think upgradable).  

I think this could get real interesting real fast !

@Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

I opted to mist the shiny trucks and pilot with Tamiya Silver Leaf. I like the difference.

Steve

Much improved. The shiny trucks are a swing and a miss for me.

@CAPPilot posted:

An F3 is not on my wish list, but if this is successful it will be interesting to see what future engines they do.  At 13", their F3 is scale length so I assume the other dimensions are good too.  If future engines are also scale sized that would be great (for me).

As a command control engine, does it matter to any of you that it does not have electrocouplers?

Yes, since I have a switching layout and enjoy switching, electrocouplers operated by pressing a button on a handheld is important to me.

This morning I found a use for a Santa Fe B unit from MTH that I wasn't currently using.  It works quite well with Menards FP7.  I had to rubber band the teather to the couplers, but I may be able to retract it into the B unit.

Ron

@rrman posted:

And in case you thought Menards was just  lumber, paint and hardware and now trains, here comes Menards coffee!!

https://www.menards.com/main/l...m_campaign=30D2-2021(1)&utm_content=Great-Value-Marcella&spMailingID=33520239&spUserID=NDE5NzIxMDI2NDI0S0&spJobID=1984375981&spReportId=MTk4NDM3NTk4MQS2

But we can drink the their coffee while admiring the Menards loco pulling Menards cars past Menards buildings. There, kept the thread focus on trains!

Tastes like a robust Columbian Dark Roast with a hint of fresh cut 2x4???

Rusty

@RSJB18 posted:

Much improved. The shiny trucks are a swing and a miss for me.

I would think that the shiny trucks would be great if the body had a chromed look to it.  As it is it’s a little incongruous, however, it could have an appeal to the perhaps targeted user- kids?

By the way, do you have to strip it or prime the trucks first?

Alan

@Rusty Traque posted:

Tastes like a robust Columbian Dark Roast with a hint of fresh cut 2x4???

Rusty

😜🤪😂

@ajzend posted:

I would think that the shiny trucks would be great if the body had a chromed look to it.  As it is it’s a little incongruous, however, it could have an appeal to the perhaps targeted user- kids?

By the way, do you have to strip it or prime the trucks first?

Alan

The shiny parts appear to be raw metal, so I just sprayed them directly.

Steve

Who is the targeted end user?

Is this being put out for us; the mature user?  Or is this intended as the motive power for a starter set.   In other words, kids.
What we see will go right over the head of a new young engineer.  They might like the jack rabbit starts. (My nephew used to wonder why the train accessories were so slow).
A reddish glow to the number boards might be a novel attraction.
They could be happy with any push button horn.

The broken red paint pattern over the grills would not even be noticed.
So, are we reviewing a kids toy, or an adult toy?  Where’s the money at, and for what targeted user?

I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be nice if Menards corrected our adult concerns, and they probably will.
But, is this targeted as an inexpensive engine around which to build bigger Menards sets from?

Of course, one might say why not target both markets?  I enjoy my high end engines, but I also enjoy running Williams engines too  Let’s see what the final price point is , and how it’s packaged  That will give us the answer (unless Mark tips his hand first)  

Alan

I tested the Menards remote for the Santa Fe engine for distance.  Works great at 35 feet.  I couldn't get farther away, so it will work fine for me.

Ron

@ajzend posted:

Who is the targeted end user?

Is this being put out for us; the mature user?  Or is this intended as the motive power for a starter set.   In other words, kids.
What we see will go right over the head of a new young engineer.  They might like the jack rabbit starts. (My nephew used to wonder why the train accessories were so slow).
A reddish glow to the number boards might be a novel attraction.
They could be happy with any push button horn.

The broken red paint pattern over the grills would not even be noticed.
So, are we reviewing a kids toy, or an adult toy?  Where’s the money at, and for what targeted user?

I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be nice if Menards corrected our adult concerns, and they probably will.
But, is this targeted as an inexpensive engine around which to build bigger Menards sets from?

Of course, one might say why not target both markets?  I enjoy my high end engines, but I also enjoy running Williams engines too  Let’s see what the final price point is , and how it’s packaged  That will give us the answer (unless Mark tips his hand first)  

Alan

Hey, watch who you are calling mature!

@ajzend posted:

The broken red paint pattern over the grills would not even be noticed.

Which, by the way, is accurate, prototypically speaking . . . .

Love the engine @Menards. Really good job. Just some feedback for you in this thread I made.

Menards F3 Thoughts/Feedback

@RON ARNDT 091718 posted:

I tested the Menards remote for the Santa Fe engine for distance.  Works great at 35 feet.  I couldn't get farther away, so it will work fine for me.

Ron

Does engine stay running or does it stop if no transmitter sending?  Answering my own question, I would think it stays running until a new command sent.

@palallin posted:

Which, by the way, is accurate, prototypically speaking . . . .

You mean prototypes are not based on Lionel?

Alan

@ajzend posted:

You mean prototypes are not based on Lionel?

Alan

Some folks seem to think so...

Rusty

1. @ajzend posted:

You mean prototypes are not based on Lionel?

Alan

No.  He means the prototype, which it’s closest match is an F7A, also does not have the grille painted.

@rplst8 posted:

No.  He means the prototype, which it’s closest match is an F7A, also does not have the grille painted.

That was a joke.
Alan

@RON ARNDT 091718 posted:

This morning I found a use for a Santa Fe B unit from MTH that I wasn't currently using.  It works quite well with Menards FP7.  I had to rubber band the teather to the couplers, but I may be able to retract it into the B unit.

Ron

What is the teather for.  Does it have sound?

John

My RK MTH Santa Fe set has the sound in the A unit, and pass through tether for lights for B unit and on to the trailing dummy A unit for lights and rear coupler.

rrman - good question.  I went down to my layout to give it a try.  The engine will stay running with no commands given to it as long as the remote is turned on.  I set my transformer to only a couple of volts and turned the remote off.  The engine went about a quarter of the way around my layout and stopped dead.  With the couple of volts on the track, the engine remained in neutral with lights and idle sounds.  Tried this a few times with the same results.  The engine has two large capacitors and I think that one of them retains the remote commands until it is depleted and shuts the engine down.  Just a guess on my part.

Ron

@Ron_S posted:

My RK MTH Santa Fe set has the sound in the A unit, and pass through tether for lights for B unit and on to the trailing dummy A unit for lights and rear coupler.

OK.  Thanks Ron.  I take it the MTH B unit matches pretty well?

JOhn

Another comment on the wiring in the engine.  I’m impressed with the heavy gauge wire used in it compared to the competition.  I didn’t check the gauge when I had the shell off, but it looked to be at least 18 gauge.  

A shout out to Elizabeth W.at Menards  in customer service. I deleted the receipt for the F3 and she emailed another one so I could get the rebate.

This is exciting news for sure and can’t wait to see what’s in store next !

There are a few Menards Facebook pages out there with posts already .

Great time for model railroading folks 😎

Ron S is right on as to the purpose of the teather.  The B unit has almost identical dimensions as the Menards Santa Fe.  The MTH B unit has more glossy paint and the trucks match the body color.  Other than that, it looks quite at home behind the A unit.  The extra weight also helps cushion the start-up jerk.

Ron A