2 TIU's with weird Voltage readings between them. CP Premier Holiday will not cross.

Curtis,

The first thing that I would suspect is that the wires from the transformer to the TIU channel inputs of at least one channel are reversed, as comparing the two TIU output channels present when the engine crosses over between the TIUs.

If there is a significant voltage measured between the two center rails when the engine stops, this would tend to indicate that that's the problem. This is not the same as two transformers being out of phase with respect to each other, although the symptoms are somewhat similar.

As you can see I have a 35 volt spike between center rails where engine stops.

My guess would be..... Transformers are out of phase,...... can you reverse  the plug on one of them at the wall outlet?  You may have to buy some type  of adaptor  that will allow you to reverse the plug rather that filing off the . polarized blade.

"TIU #1 is powered by 2 Z4000's with on one handle raised for fixed one input, to 18 volts. The TIU is powered by a Z500 into the AUX port on the TIU.

TIU #2 is powered by a Z1000 on Fixed Input one with a Z750 powering the TIU through the Aux Port on the TIU."

Without a picture this says you are using two Z4000's for TIU#1 Fixed One and a Z1000 for TIU#2 Fixed One?

Did you use color coded wires for an easy polarity check? What happens if you power everything from one handle of a Z4000? Running wires to the Fixed 1 inputs of both TIU's?

Could you just power the TIU's from the Z4000 fixed voltage output and get rid of those other transformers? How much power does it take to run the TIU's?

Do you have your transformers plugged into separate wall receptacles?

Chris

LVHRF

35 volts or so is an indication of a phasing problem. If you have the two Z4Ks and the Z1K plugged into separate wall outlets, unplug them and re-plug all 3 to a single power strip. Do the same for the transformers that provide power to the TIUs. Now check the phasing between each transformer. With the throttles at the same settings you should get 0 volts between transformers. If you are still getting 35v somewhere, those 2 transformers are out of phase. It is possible to have the two 4Ks out of phase. There was an early batch that had the internal wiring reversed. Please post the serial numbers and IDs of each transformer. 

Chris

LVHR

Any update?

Sorry for no updates as we are being bombed with high winds and drifting snow. I am a volunteer fire fighter and we have been busy as we are all volunteer and cover two townships and a 1 square mile Boro. Hopefully tonight or tomorrow. Thank you so far everyone. Will try the suggestions as soon as I can.

Bundle up & be careful...

OKAY finally got a few minutes to do some of the suggestions. Here is what I discovered.

Removed all power supplies except Z500 to TIU #1 and Z750 to TIU #2.

Removed all track supplies on table 2 except first track supply to track that has gap at Table 1 (10 sections of track ).

Hooked up 1st Z4000:

Handle one is loop one on Table one - TIU #1 Fixed input 1 (TIU output to track block under table 1 to feed track on loop 1).

Handle two I  ran wire to table two, TIU  #2 Fixed input 1 TIU output to loop 1 (now only 10 sections) terminal block.

Voltage reads 18v between center rails to outside rails at each table (at gap). Crossing gap with table 1 center rail and table 2 outer rail is 18 v as is table 2 center rail to table one outer rail.

I hooked up the 2nd Z4000, after removing first, the exact same way and got the same readings. OK all OK so far.

Now I returned table on to #1 on TIU #1 to handle 1 on first Z4000 and left table two hooked up to second handle on 2nd Z4000.

WHAM back to 36V center rail to center rail as before.

Out of curiosity I checked voltages between inputs at both tiu's. Black on one to red on other 18v tried reversed - 18v. Balck to red on same transformer - 18v.

Both transformers plugged into the same outlet. Also tried different outlet with same results.

Taking just table one I have no problems between loop one and two, two and three.

according to my readings all transformers are in phase as black to black or red  to red = zero volts.

Any Suggestions?

I am definitely stumped. I can not figure out why when changing to two different transformers everything goes bonkers. And just for kicks I also substituted a Z1000 for one of the Z4000 and got same results. Even swapped out each Z4000 for the Z1000. This rules out a Z4000 being mis-wired inside. One I just purchased and the other is from August 2015. Z1000 purchased September 2016. All New. I purchased only the Z750 and Z500 used from my dealer.

Barry

I also thought that might be a problem so I went back and checked all wiring. I am using all MTH wiring other than track feeds whic is color coded Ogaugerr wire I purchased ( which they do not currently have in stock as I need more). I agreed that the voltage increase indicated a cross connection but NOPE it is all correct. I even disconnected all track supplies except the first one on table two. Still the same. Also since I was only removing the plug jacks from the back of the transformers if it was somewhere else it should have still remained at 36v. REALLY GOT ME STUMPED.

Did you try reversing one of the plugs at the wall? The transformers are out of phase.

If you noticed above I used the same plug and checked all transformer voltages across outputs of transformers. If they were out of phase shouldn't they have higher reading between transformers? I was under the understanding that instead of taking a ground (common) wire from one and touching to other for sparks you could use a meter (which is safer for the transformers) to check voltage. As I do not have a voltage jump that is what leads me to believe they are in phase. Am I wrong?

Also as Barry suggest this tends to lead more to:

"The first thing that I would suspect is that the wires from the transformer to the TIU channel inputs of at least one channel are reversed, as comparing the two TIU output channels present when the engine crosses over between the TIUs. If there is a significant voltage measured between the two center rails when the engine stops, this would tend to indicate that that's the problem. This is not the same as two transformers being out of phase with respect to each other, although the symptoms are somewhat similar."

But I checked all wiring and found nothing.

Let's take the track and TIUs out of the mix. Plug both Z4Ks into the same power strip. On the back of the Z4Ks, connect a wire between any black post on one Z4K and any black post on the other. Raise the left handle on each to the exact same voltage. 12v or so is fine. Use a volt meter to measure the AC voltage between the 2 red left posts, one on each Z4K. If the Z4Ks are in phase, the difference will be zero. If you are reading double the indicated voltage, the Z4Ks are out of phase.

Also, while you are looking at the back of the 2 Z4Ks, please note the serial numbers and post them here.

Chris

LVHR

OK Gregg

I thought about what you said some more and said Self, Just try it. So I ran a wire form the black terminal of the Z1000 on TIU #2 Table 2 across the room to the Black terminal of the Z4000 on Table 1 for TIU #1. And it now reads the correct voltage.

But before we do the Happy Dance,

1. Why did this work yet the transformers are in phase and I got no voltage reading between transformers.

2. We ( or I should say I ) still have a problem. Below are the pictures I took of the connection between the two tables. It is a bridge. The right side has the track gap as in photo. The left side is hooked with Atlas connectors (which are tight , I checked 2 times to make sure)

A MTH NS Genset will run on either table, BUT will stop completely on the bridge with track voltage dropping to ZERO from the left side. (This is the same with any engine)

Lehighline

Here are snap shots of the serial numbers and please read my last post to Gregg. It will explain the phase issue better. Please be aware that I am using a Z1000 and the Z4000 SN:111447543. I did your test between these two Z4000 and got O Volts. Again I really don't think it is phase issue according to test , YET putting a common between them dropped the 36 volts to 18 volts. So why did it not show voltage when doing your test or as Lionel suggest touching a wire to see if it sparks? (Zero Volts before and NO Spark). To make matters worse, now the voltage is correct until an engine is on the bridge. Shouldn't the bridge just be as another section of track? It came with no track and I had to slide this section into it. Strange, So Strange, Hence me asking for help. Anything else you want me to try?

Also please beaware that the voltage on Table two, The Bridge and Left Table, drops to zero as soon as an engine is completely on the bridge coming from table two. I did not check voltage coming from table one but the engine still stops.

CurtisH posted:

OK Gregg

I thought about what you said some more and said Self, Just try it. So I ran a wire form the black terminal of the Z1000 on TIU #2 Table 2 across the room to the Black terminal of the Z4000 on Table 1 for TIU #1. And it now reads the correct voltage.

But before we do the Happy Dance,

1. Why did this work yet the transformers are in phase and I got no voltage reading between transformers.

2. We ( or I should say I ) still have a problem. Below are the pictures I took of the connection between the two tables. It is a bridge. The right side has the track gap as in photo. The left side is hooked with Atlas connectors (which are tight , I checked 2 times to make sure)

A MTH NS Genset will run on either table, BUT will stop completely on the bridge with track voltage dropping to ZERO from the left side. (This is the same with any engine)

A MTH NS Genset will run on either table, BUT will stop completely on the bridge with track voltage dropping to ZERO from the left side. (This is the same with any engine)

Are you losing common with the switch?

Are you losing common with the switch?

That is an excellent question. I guess I should go back and try again and see if I still have voltage before the switch when it happens - Correct?

CurtisH posted:

Are you losing common with the switch?

That is an excellent question. I guess I should go back and try again and see if I still have voltage before the switch when it happens - Correct?

The two outermost rails of the switch should be the common. The straight near the motor and the outside divergent rail that is continuous.

it doesn't harm anything to jumper the both outside rails somewhere on the layout.

Thank you Moonman. Will jumper today and get back with results.

We have 8 post war ZW on Jack's large super mode layout.....All the  transformers   "U" connections are tied together via   14 gauge wires,,,, This insures   a great common and we don't have to depend on the track  to keep the transformers in phase.

If you read LEHIGHLINE's  post again we should all get our  transformers  in phase  before actually hooking anything up  to the track.... I'm a little lost but  are you using the z-1000? 

Hope this helps...

"Please be aware that I am using a Z1000 and the Z4000 SN:111447543."

He is somewhere, just not sure what it is doing. Plus the two Z4000's he has as well.

OK Let me try again.

Table one has an outside loop that crosses to table two outside loop. There is a bridge between tables with a gap in all 3 rails on table one side.

Table one outside loop is powered by a Z4000, handle one, going to the fixed input of TIU #1 and coming out the Fixed Output to a MTH Terminal block which feeds track supplies to table one loop. This TIU is powered through the AUX  port, as suggested by Barry in his book, with a Z500.

Table two outside loop is powered by a Z1000 going to the fixed input of TIU #2 and coming out the Fixed Output to a MTH Terminal block which feeds track supplies to table two loop. This TIU is powered through the AUX  port, as suggested by Barry in his book, with a Z750.

 I have a second Z4000 but it is NOT in these loops, but moved there temporarily to see if I had a bad Z4000 or Z1000 upon suggestions made here. It made no difference I still got 38 volts at middle rail gap.

Upon suggestions here, I ran a wire from the common of both the Z1000 and the Z4000 and with a volt meter got a ZERO reading between the Red terminals with each transformer putting out 18 volts (with nothing connected other than the two commons). This led me to believe they were in phase. After reconnecting to track I was back to 36 volts again. Upon suggestions made here again, I ran the wire again between the commons but left them tied into their respective TIU's. VOLTAGE PROBLEM WAS SOLVED! BUT no one has explained why I did not get a voltage reading between transformers with meter as if they were out of phase there should have been a voltage reading.

Now I tried to run train across bridge from table 2 to table 1 and the opposite, way only to have the engines stop at the bridge.

Moonman suggested jumping the outer rails on both sides of the switch on table two by bridge. The switch (coming from bridge) goes straight into a siding but it diverts left onto the mail loop.

I jumper-ed the outer rails from one side of the switch to the other side and also tried from one outer rail to the outer rail with the same results.

Now thinking along the same lines as moonman, I took a voltage reading on both sides of the switch when the engine stops. To my surprise the center rail appears to drop out on the switch. Meaning the loop side still had 18 volts but the bridge side had zero volts.

With this, my line of thought is to jumper the center rail on the switch from the diverting center rail to the center rail coming from bridge. It appears that somehow this Atlas switch reads voltage till it gets a load then something disconnects.

I can only express I wold never have come to this conclusion if not for the patience of all of you on this forum. This is why I tell everyone that if they are having problems THIS FORUM IS THE PLACE TO GO. All of you are so  willing to help it amazes me and makes me appreciate all you guys do. I have read in articles time and tie again about how O Gaugers are like a big family and I must admit you sure have made me feel that way. I would be lost without all of you. Thank you for your time and especially our patience. I try to explain things so they are easy with all the information and yet it just gets confusing. Only when someone says " I am not sure what he is doing do I realize that I have not explained it well enough or have not conveyed what the problem is. The problem arises because I know he problem but fail to realize it was not explained adequately. Again thank you all! forgive my Stupidity. I have worked years gaining it! The older I get I think the dumber I get.

Are your Atlas switches older ones? There are jumper wires connecting certain rails. Some of the early Atlas switches had problems with wires that were too small. Can you check the bottom of the switch's wiring? This problem should have been fixed with all newer Atlas switches, but there could still be a loose connection or other problem I suppose. I use Atlas track and switches myself and I really like it. 

I was a lot smarter when I was younger as well! Must have something to do with age??

Well, that's interesting Curtis -

I would have expected the switch to be powered by Table#1 loop.  So, it is the through center rail past the frog or the divergence just before the bridge that should be dead. An Atlas switch expects power at all three ends.

Since the bridge track is not connected, there's no power on both ends.

Here is a diagram that was copied from ChessieFan72's post on wiring a #6924 non-derail.

You can jumper those rails together on the underside so that the switch is powered by Table#1

The Table #2 side presents area of caution. That is where to two power supplies have the possibility of bridging voltage if there is a big enough difference in the voltages. Adding the amperage and voltage.

Measure the track power at the joint for each transformer/TIU combo and match them.

You could avoid this by running each TIU from a handle on the same Z4000. You would have to run an ABBA pulmor engine MU and a bunch of lighted cars to run out of amperage.

Moonman

Thank you for the pic. Speaks volumes!

Reason switch is powered by table two is it is on table two which was just added. This will also explain why the gap at the bridge and table one. I tried real hard to make sure that I do not go over 12 sections of track thus keeping the average at 10 sections. The first table when it was wired I did NOT isolate between sections. Track supplies were installed every 10 to 12 sections (including switches). 

When the second table was added I tried to keep the Track supply blocks in the middle of the farthest track supplies per loop. I also isolated the blocks via the center rail with Atlas isolation connectors. Since this now puts the TIU's 30 some feet apart and across the room and a walkway, I made sure to use another TIU and will use 4 power bricks for this new TIU. This is how I came about purchasing a 2nd Z4000 for the original Table one and took those two Z1000's for use on the new Table 2 and new TIU. I can run a single wire around the room and tie all Commons together, That is not a problem. But since table two is mostly just for parking Engines, passenger cars, and rolling stock ( some set up as complete trains ready to pull out onto table one), There will be large draws at times per loop. For instance, I have a 911 train with every 911 locomotive and car. It currently consist of3 MTH 911 Engines (all different) and 36 cars some with lights and working components along with 2 lighted cabooses. Just that train by itself comes close to maxing out one handle or a Z1000. Now add 3 more loops with a lot of engines, lighted rolling stock and you can soon see why I went with each channel on both TIU's be powered separately. Whether separate or all on one would have no bearing on the problem I am having unless BOTH tables were all on one which definitely will not work.

Now back to the switch. Because the track supply is on the diverging side of the switch and looking at your pic, I see and agree with your comment. My problem is I do not have the option of changing this setup. Hence it appears that I MUST now jumper all outer rails (which can be done with Atlas Track Supply rail joiners and tying them together under the table) and also jumper all inner rails in the same manner. Also just FYI I also noticed the blue and yellow section in the pic. I went back to the layout and found that the blue rail is the outer rail that has the Track supply to it. My guess is I also want to make sure the two outer rails are tied together when I run the jumpers.

90% of the time my trains will be coming from the BLUE side of the switch and heading across the bridge only stopping to park a car or two in the short siding which is the YELLOW side of the switch.

So am I correct I need to tie the outer rails together and also tie the inner rails together?

I SURE wish I had talked to you when planning this expansion or even the original 30x8 table one. Having this 26x20 expansion added on has taken a long time. I thought I was making things easier with 2 TIU's but now half way want to go back to an eight by four layout and get rid of all the headaches. Problem is I LOVE MY TRAINS! First is the Lord Second is the wife ( yes I know, But she is my gift from God), 3rd is my trains and fourth is Seven Up. Yes I have a 7Up train of 15 cars also.

Help I have an Addiction Problem!

RTR12

I have Atlas only because Scaletrax was not available. Ended up with enough Atlas for only one loop before ATLAS, as usual ran out of stock. Had to buy Realtrax for next 3 loops. Expansion is all Atlas track and am, Yes you guessed it, WAITING FOR ATLAS TO GET SWITCHES AND TRACK! Personally I would not buy it again. No Support for their switches, always out of stock on track, and it is EXPENSIVE! This last time I bought track by the boxes just to make sure I had enough. Now waiting on switches since October.

My poor dealer has been bending over backwards trying to get track. I had to get a replacement 072 switch from Legacy Station a year ago as NO ONE within 300 miles had one. My dealer even offered to pay for it and I said I just could not do that as I knew it was not his fault. Poor guy gives me a big break on the pricing and has been super helpful. Kind of chuckled a little as he actually called me once to see if I had small sections he needed for another customer but Atlas was OUT OF STOCK on.

The look is nice and it looks real good ballasted. But what a pain when you have to ripe up 2 sections each side of a switch to replace the faulty switch and everything is ballasted. And of course it is never the switch you can reach real easy, always the worse one.

On the plus side I did use MTH dwarf signals with the switches. Looks great but a pain to get to work.

Curtis

Yes, I guess it is sometimes hard to get Atlas track, but to me it's worth the wait, or the hunt to find it. That is also the reason I know about the older switch problems, I had to purchase a few used. Some were broken, but Atlas was great help in getting me the parts to fix them and I saved all but one that had rails missing. They should order up a container of each track piece and switch. It must be popular as it seems they always sell out pretty quickly. FWIW, I have heard Scaletrax might even be harder to find. My LHS does not even carry it. It's the only track type they don't carry, they have every other type available including Ross.

Anyway it sounds like Moonman has you going in the right direction now so I hope you get everything operating properly. I guess I didn't realize where the switch power was coming from? I have not yet had that problem. As has been pointed out the Atlas track's outside rails are not connected to each other. Most folks recommend tying them together, but I did not as I wanted to use one side for isolated rail controls, signals, etc. So far I have had no problems, but my layout is not that large either. There is an expansion planned, if I ever get around to deciding on a nice track plan that is. And then do the work of course. Good luck!!

Curtish,

It sounds like we are making some headway with your problem, at least in regards to the switch. But I'm still concerned about the 35v reading. I agree your Z4Ks are in phase, so that is not it. Plus the serial numbers are for transformers built in 2014 and 2016. I'm not aware of any phasing issues with those batches of Z4Ks. 

Next questions: Under normal operations, may I presume the transformers for table 1 and table 2 are plugged into separate receptacles? If that is the case, are you absolutely 100% sure the receptacles are on the same house circuit breaker?

Chris

LVHR

Lehighline

As stated above we have cured the 36 volt problem by adding the common connection between transformers. It is just no one has yet to explain why as stated above 16 hours ago, my last post before the post with the switch picture. It was actually you who came through with the common after it was suggested by you and others but you caused the brain cells to say DO IT and I DID IT and WHAM problem fixed but why? Read post and you will see the reason I Say why?

Yes, they are on different breakers and I did check polarity on each even though when I built the house An Electrician (Certified) and I wired it together. ( Only took forever as his motto was "One and only one circuit at a time. That way there are NO mistakes.") Drove me nuts! Plus we spent almost a year here every night doing wiring. His comment when done -"I never have seen anyone so picky on what and how wiring rooms should be done but I will say it is done in the best way". He was upset having to run so much wire as the house is over 4000 sq ft and every room is on it's on breaker with the lights on a different breaker (and every other room lights so if a breaker tripped for lights the next room would still have lights).  Ended up with two - 40 slot breaker panels and one 24 slot sub panel. And yes there are 2 receptacle circuits in the train room because he always figured max capacity on each receptacle and that limits number of receptacles per circuit. He would not let me put them on one circuit even though I replied I would NEVER have the max on each circuit at the same time. He was definitely a safety nut but I AIN'T Complaining. Better Safe than Sorry.

I am quite pleased that you ask the question on the receptacle circuits though as that was one of the first things I though so I checked the polarity between the two circuits to make sure. I wonder how often that has happened to people as that is an easy mistake made when wiring a house.

Also I am only using one Z4000 and one Z1000 for the outer loop on the tables. See same post for better explanation.

Finally I again want to thank you for your help. It is because of people like you that some of us who don't know can learn and get things repaired. Thank You.

Also Moonman has not yet answered my question about rail joiners on the switch and tying them all together in their respective Hot and Common.

CurtisH posted:

Moonman

Thank you for the pic. Speaks volumes!

Reason switch is powered by table two is it is on table two which was just added. This will also explain why the gap at the bridge and table one. I tried real hard to make sure that I do not go over 12 sections of track thus keeping the average at 10 sections. The first table when it was wired I did NOT isolate between sections. Track supplies were installed every 10 to 12 sections (including switches). 

When the second table was added I tried to keep the Track supply blocks in the middle of the farthest track supplies per loop. I also isolated the blocks via the center rail with Atlas isolation connectors. Since this now puts the TIU's 30 some feet apart and across the room and a walkway, I made sure to use another TIU and will use 4 power bricks for this new TIU. This is how I came about purchasing a 2nd Z4000 for the original Table one and took those two Z1000's for use on the new Table 2 and new TIU. I can run a single wire around the room and tie all Commons together, That is not a problem. But since table two is mostly just for parking Engines, passenger cars, and rolling stock ( some set up as complete trains ready to pull out onto table one), There will be large draws at times per loop. For instance, I have a 911 train with every 911 locomotive and car. It currently consist of3 MTH 911 Engines (all different) and 36 cars some with lights and working components along with 2 lighted cabooses. Just that train by itself comes close to maxing out one handle or a Z1000. Now add 3 more loops with a lot of engines, lighted rolling stock and you can soon see why I went with each channel on both TIU's be powered separately. Whether separate or all on one would have no bearing on the problem I am having unless BOTH tables were all on one which definitely will not work.

Now back to the switch. Because the track supply is on the diverging side of the switch and looking at your pic, I see and agree with your comment. My problem is I do not have the option of changing this setup. Hence it appears that I MUST now jumper all outer rails (which can be done with Atlas Track Supply rail joiners and tying them together under the table) and also jumper all inner rails in the same manner. Also just FYI I also noticed the blue and yellow section in the pic. I went back to the layout and found that the blue rail is the outer rail that has the Track supply to it. My guess is I also want to make sure the two outer rails are tied together when I run the jumpers.

90% of the time my trains will be coming from the BLUE side of the switch and heading across the bridge only stopping to park a car or two in the short siding which is the YELLOW side of the switch.

So am I correct I need to tie the outer rails together and also tie the inner rails together?

I SURE wish I had talked to you when planning this expansion or even the original 30x8 table one. Having this 26x20 expansion added on has taken a long time. I thought I was making things easier with 2 TIU's but now half way want to go back to an eight by four layout and get rid of all the headaches. Problem is I LOVE MY TRAINS! First is the Lord Second is the wife ( yes I know, But she is my gift from God), 3rd is my trains and fourth is Seven Up. Yes I have a 7Up train of 15 cars also.

Help I have an Addiction Problem!

I only confused which table was #1 or #2. Sorry.

yes, you have it. Get power through the switch by having common on the outer most rails of the switch and jumper the hot through the switch using the method that you suggested. Then, the bridge track will have power.

Arrange your power configuration to your liking and needs. Sometimes the simplest way doesn't work. Just wanted to know about it.

Trains are not an addiction, more of a passion.

CurtisH posted:

Lehighline

As stated above we have cured the 36 volt problem by adding the common connection between transformers. It is just no one has yet to explain why as stated above 16 hours ago, my last post before the post with the switch picture. It was actually you who came through with the common after it was suggested by you and others but you caused the brain cells to say DO IT and I DID IT and WHAM problem fixed but why? Read post and you will see the reason I Say why?

Yes, they are on different breakers and I did check polarity on each even though when I built the house An Electrician (Certified) and I wired it together. ( Only took forever as his motto was "One and only one circuit at a time. That way there are NO mistakes.") Drove me nuts! Plus we spent almost a year here every night doing wiring. His comment when done -"I never have seen anyone so picky on what and how wiring rooms should be done but I will say it is done in the best way". He was upset having to run so much wire as the house is over 4000 sq ft and every room is on it's on breaker with the lights on a different breaker (and every other room lights so if a breaker tripped for lights the next room would still have lights).  Ended up with two - 40 slot breaker panels and one 24 slot sub panel. And yes there are 2 receptacle circuits in the train room because he always figured max capacity on each receptacle and that limits number of receptacles per circuit. He would not let me put them on one circuit even though I replied I would NEVER have the max on each circuit at the same time. He was definitely a safety nut but I AIN'T Complaining. Better Safe than Sorry.

I am quite pleased that you ask the question on the receptacle circuits though as that was one of the first things I though so I checked the polarity between the two circuits to make sure. I wonder how often that has happened to people as that is an easy mistake made when wiring a house.

Also I am only using one Z4000 and one Z1000 for the outer loop on the tables. See same post for better explanation.

Finally I again want to thank you for your help. It is because of people like you that some of us who don't know can learn and get things repaired. Thank You.

Also Moonman has not yet answered my question about rail joiners on the switch and tying them all together in their respective Hot and Common.

The breakers (circuits) need to be on the same leg of the panel bus. if on different sides, it will cause an out of phase condition, even though they are wired properly.

You are correct on the circuits and power buss. When wiring I wired to next breaker (second leg) and my friend so no just because of what you said. I would not have known that.

Am going to try to get up to the train room tonight to do as suggested with the switch. Busy today.

The breakers (circuits) need to be on the same leg of the panel bus. if on different sides, it will cause an out of phase condition, even though they are wired properly.

Bingo! Carl has it exactly correct. You can cure the problem by having your electrician come back and re-do the connections at the circuit breakers. He needs to get both circuits that feed that room on the same leg inside the CB box. Get that done, and this problem will go away and stay away. 

I'm glad we got this solved!

 BTW, I'm not blaming your electrician in the least! This is one scenario the neither one of you would have thought about when you wired the house.

Chris

LVHR

CurtisH posted:

I have Atlas only because Scaletrax was not available. Ended up with enough Atlas for only one loop before ATLAS, as usual ran out of stock. Had to buy Realtrax for next 3 loops. Expansion is all Atlas track and am, Yes you guessed it, WAITING FOR ATLAS TO GET SWITCHES AND TRACK! Personally I would not buy it again. No Support for their switches, always out of stock on track, and it is EXPENSIVE! This last time I bought track by the boxes just to make sure I had enough. Now waiting on switches since October.

This is really bothersome. I thought Atlas had fixed their availability problems, but apparently not. I've been torn between Atlas and GarGraves/RCS and this might make the decision for me. Thanks for sharing your current experience.

Lehighline

As I stated my Electrician did catch it as we were wiring the house.

NOW ON TO SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT!!

I personal would like to thank Moonman, Lehighline, Gregg, Bobbyd, Barry and RTR12.

The problem is fixed and I have run several engines in both directions over the bridge with NO PROBLEMS.

It appears that the problem was mainly two things:

1. The Switch

2. Common wire connection between transformers ( I still have not received an answer of why the two transformers do not show voltage between them as an out of phase would indicate, but it doesn't matter as it is now FIXED! ).

Gentleman I have said it several times through out this thread, Thank You. It is because of you and your caring that the problem is solved. Someday I hope I can personally shake the hand of each of you. Thanks from the bottom of my heart. What a great and willing bunch of people!

My Addiction lives on and I must say I couldn't be happier. Even m wife, who is Track Manager and the Complete Scenery Department is very happy! This is a win win! Thanks guys!

Glad you got things fixed. You are very kind! 

There are many very knowledgeable folks here and most all are quite willing to help. This is a great place to learn. It's where I have learned a lot about toy/model trains and electronics.