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Nice to see the new offerings. May order the Pullman heavy-weights. 

Again, I'll voice my complaint. I'd love to have the Iowa Interstate ES44ACs, but the headlight should be in the nose, not above the cab. Only correct for the NS 4000 in this catalog. Too bad they went cheap on the tooling, and didn't make the headlight movable to the nose location. Too expensive of a model to overlook.

 

NotInWI posted:

I find it curious that the AF offerings are a separate catalog this year.  Last year it was all one big book.  Lionel seems all over the place with this over the years.  

Ben

I'm guessing they didn't want to "dilute" their 120th anniversary celebration.

ns1001 posted:

So they are going to make the enhanced Berkshires after all - have my RF&P road name on order although believe they were pattered after the C&O version with different sand dome placement. Also have on order the EP-5 in NH colors.  

The RF&P Berks were closer to the NKP/PM Berks, although the RF&P's sand dome was a little smaller.

Rusty

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The Frisco was a good seller and AM made the passenger cars after a couple of us convinced Ron that Lionel wasn't going to make them.  Maybe AM will paint more sets of cars.

The heavyweights didn't start with PE so these are using the continuing tooling from long before the PE.

Cattle cars??  Of course as many of us run trains that are staged from the early part of the last century.

Lionel always includes product that is unsold or undelivered from the last catalog.  Flyerchief and Legacy Berks show up in this catalog for that reason.

I see that there is a note about an update on the Bluetooth software for Flyerchief/Lionchief.  Is this update new really?

Let's Flyonel 2020!

Bill

Roundhouse Bill posted:

The Frisco was a good seller and AM made the passenger cars after a couple of us convinced Ron that Lionel wasn't going to make them.  Maybe AM will paint more sets of cars.

The heavyweights didn't start with PE so these are using the continuing tooling from long before the PE.


Bill

The AM Frisco Meteor cars were a result of someone (Mark, a.k.a Banjoflyer?) making a proposal for them with AM.  They were true BTO and no extra sets were made.  If AM's minimum hadn't been reached the project would have withered on the vine.  Someone would have to take the initiative again with a new proposal.

The Flyer heavyweights were first released around 2005-2006 as I recall.  NYC and UP as separate sale, plus in the Alton set were where the made their debut.

Rusty

Rusty, you are partly correct.  I was the person who initially contacted Ron after I talked with Ryan Kunkle at Lionel to confirm that Lionel wasn't going to make the cars.  Later, I also got the paint numbers from Ryan because Ron wanted them, but then didn't really match the paint.

Mark and I partnered in convincing Ron to build the cars.  Mark also provided lots of information on the cars Frisco used with names for each type and the number of wheels on each truck.

When I got the article in the S Gaugian we used photos of the train from Mark's layout.  It was a partnership.

I am wondering if we could get Ron to make passenger coaches for coming Legacy Berkshire Golden Spike Limited that is being produced.  That was the special train to celebrate 100th year of the Transcontinental Railroad in 1969.  It is the blue one in the catalog.  I have one ordered.

Anybody Interested???

 

 

Last edited by Roundhouse Bill

I'd love to have the Iowa Interstate ES44ACs, but the headlight should be in the nose, not above the cab. Only correct for the NS 4000 in this catalog. Too bad they went cheap on the tooling, and didn't make the headlight movable to the nose location. Too expensive of a model to overlook.

This problem bothered me, too, until I "went cheap" on the fix. BTS twin sealed-beam headlight with MV lenses fit perfectly in the ES44AC nose indentation. I glued the headlight with GOOP so that I could remove it later if necessary without damaging the paint. If I get the courage, I'll put the original LEDs in the correct place and file down and patch the area between the numberboards. For now, the "wrong" headlight is barely noticeable.BNSF diesels 2

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snowmanw900 posted:

Thanks for posting the link @Rusty Traque

I see they brought the ES44 back, and that  I'm happy about. I see a couple that I'll be ordering. 

 

Hopefully this time they have a factory option for fixing the pilots. I'm looking forward to these new units.

On a sad note, another year goes by and I still dont see a SD40-2. 

Maybe next time......

I doubt there will be any mechanical changes to the ES44's.  They'd have to modify the frame and pilot castings.

Rusty

The 2020 catalogue description says that the Legacy Berkshires will have separate handrails but what about the other separate detail items as shown in the illustrations which have not changed since the concept was first shown. So that implies all the original added detail items are still included but needs to be confirmed.

Roundhouse Bill posted:
I am wondering if we could get Ron to make passenger coaches for coming Legacy Berkshire Golden Spike Limited that is being produced.  That was the special train to celebrate 100th year of the Transcontinental Railroad in 1969.  It is the blue one in the catalog.  I have one ordered.

Anybody Interested???

Bill, are you referring to the American Railroads Berk?

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Rusty, you are partly correct.  I was the person who initially contacted Ron after I talked with Ryan Kunkle at Lionel to confirm that Lionel wasn't going to make the cars.  Later, I also got the paint numbers from Ryan because Ron wanted them, but then didn't really match the paint.

Mark and I partnered in convincing Ron to build the cars.  Mark also provided lots of information on the cars Frisco used with names for each type and the number of wheels on each truck.

When I got the article in the S Gaugian we used photos of the train from Mark's layout.  It was a partnership.

I am wondering if we could get Ron to make passenger coaches for coming Legacy Berkshire Golden Spike Limited that is being produced.  That was the special train to celebrate 100th year of the Transcontinental Railroad in 1969.  It is the blue one in the catalog.  I have one ordered.

Anybody Interested???

 

 

That was so disappointing to get them and have them not match the loco.  I never run them anymore because of that; I am tired of people asking "Why doesn't the paint match?"  They'll land on ebay soon.

Brendan  

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Yes, It was the Nickel Plate Road 759 that was redone for that excursion and then repainted and put on static display at Steamtown in Scranton PA.

Then yes, I'd love to have the heavyweights to go with it. I have one on order, but I am still not convinced that any of the Legacy Berks will actually get built.

So very disappointed with this catalog. I’m going to go out on a limb and say the reason the Legacy Berks aren’t on the shipping schedule AND they are re-cataloged here is due to lack of pre-orders. There is still no mention of several of the features that were discussed in that old post.  And I would have bet on an SD40 in this catalog. Glad I didn’t.

This group of Lionel Execs obviously does not feel that any kind of new scale product is worth investing in. Everything is targeted at the Flyer crowd. Even the ES44s lack proper details and I’m not sure some of those roads are popular but whatever.  New passenger cars with silhouettes in the windows? Honestly? I am definitely in the wrong place.

I’m tired of waiting. Time to move on I think. What had so much promise a few years ago has finally faded away.  Can’t believe I waited a year for this.

Last edited by jonnyspeed
Roundhouse Bill posted:

Brendan, I was disappointed too and Ron would not give me a clear answer on the paint color. But I love the train with the cars none the less.  My guess is with the reissue of the locomotive you can sell them easily.  

However that begs the question, what will you run behind the Frisco Meteor engine?

Don't know, yet.  Maybe Lionel will come out with something now that they are reissuing/using up old stock.

Brendan

NotInWI posted:

I find it curious that the AF offerings are a separate catalog this year.  Last year it was all one big book.  Lionel seems all over the place with this over the years.  

Ben

Ben,

Clicking through the Charles Ro advertising, I see that they say the AF 2020 catalog is digital only. If true, looks like Lionel might have saved a little by not printing the AF offerings in the big book.

Mike

ns1001 posted:

The 2020 catalogue description says that the Legacy Berkshires will have separate handrails but what about the other separate detail items as shown in the illustrations which have not changed since the concept was first shown. So that implies all the original added detail items are still included but needs to be confirmed.

I can confirm this. They will have a lot of separate detailing as I had pointed out quite awhile ago. We have gone ahead and made modifications to the tooling.

What we need is more preorders to hit the MOQ for these engines. I'm no salesman, but I can say that people won't be disappointed in them. 

Ok, I'll buy a few extras to make up for your absence.  I'd definitely welcome some SD60 also,  but atleast we have some of those floating around in the AM line.

I believe S is the only sector of the model train world that doesn't have a SD40. I'm pretty sure every other mainstream scale/gauge has several road names in a SD40. Why?...I guess ill never understand.

I pre-ordered the last time, then they were cancelled. I've pre-ordered a second time and was encouraged/puzzled/suspicious by the appearance in the catalogue. The way I see it, Lionel is offering a steam locomotive for the same price as a diesel, and the Legacy Berkshire has more features and flexibility (AC/DC/Legacy/TMCC/DCC) than the Mikado that was more expensive about 13 years ago. That seems like a very good deal to me.

I have an order in for a Legacy Berkshire. I wonder how many more I would need to buy to get them into production. Likely more than two! I think Lionel decision makers are being somewhat short sighted in the S gauge product decisions. More quality S gauge products would lead to more sales. Not just the engines but the Legacy, power and LCS products as well. Lionel already has a good S gauge track system with enough sizes to make pretty much any track plan that can be imagined.

Dave Olson posted:
ns1001 posted:

The 2020 catalogue description says that the Legacy Berkshires will have separate handrails but what about the other separate detail items as shown in the illustrations which have not changed since the concept was first shown. So that implies all the original added detail items are still included but needs to be confirmed.

I can confirm this. They will have a lot of separate detailing as I had pointed out quite awhile ago. We have gone ahead and made modifications to the tooling.

What we need is more preorders to hit the MOQ for these engines. I'm no salesman, but I can say that people won't be disappointed in them. 

Dave,

I can never understand what the great secrecy is regarding not divulging what production runs are or what the MOQ is to make an item go into production. It isn’t like national security is being compromised to a foreign nation. Am I missing something here?

if for example the MOQ for the LB is say 1,200 items and you get 1,050 pre orders and it falters at this point, you will cancel it and say sorry people but not enough orders. Why can’t you declare what you have as pre orders and say that another 150 orders will secure production. Then we as customers might be able to give you that minimum number with a bit of extra time and everyone wins

Adding on to the post above, we do not even need to know the total, just the gap between the preorders and the MOQ. If the gap is for example 20, I would commit and order two more to help get the engine I want. So just one S gauge buyer can fill 10% of a gap that size. Its not that I necessarily want three but I would rather have three than none.

I purchased four FC Berks and two have gone back(bad boards&smoke units) now I have three  of those to go back

!-Two connecting rod screws fell out one of which was stripped at assembly

2-failed board  (second time)

3--Front pilot axle retainers fell out and I believe shorted board (second time back)

All four eat traction tires like candy! No other flionel  engines do this. The others all have wider tread

and must be better  quality.

I would not advise any one to buy one of these Berkshires

Gunny

 

 

Gee. Another painful Lionel AF catalog.

1. I shall not preorder a Legacy Berk. Regrettably, Lionel has tripped on their own shoe laces too many times in the last decade (S & 0). If they build them, I will seriously consider one and I hope that an advance sample is on display at York in April. There have been a few bright spots (e.g., the Y3's, most of the Legacy PA's), but I have grown tired of buying their mistakes (color, assembly, engineering, you name it) unseen. Oh, if only Lionel had the quality and QC that Märklin has.

2. A slew of new heavyweights (good), but without interiors (bad).  Come on, guys. It's 2020. And, because they are cataloging a run of multiple sets of heavies, why no matching blue ones for the re-run of the Frisco Northern? Good grief!

3. An SD40 is a 'lay down'. Prototypically, these were owned by many, many railroads. Once the tooling was developed, they could do repaints (Lionel's favorite form of product planning) for years.

End of rant (I promise ).

Bob

Last edited by Bob Bubeck

This is for Dave at Big L,  I think you are missing an opportunity, actually two opportunities:

1) SF Northern 2926 is scheduled to become an active steam engine early this year--Why not produce an ACG Northern of her?

2) UP BigBoy 4014 is big news now, why not re-run the MTH  S version 4014 again, but use the Challenger trailing truck and tender tooling to improve it (and the tender would be prototypical.

 

traindavid posted:

This is for Dave at Big L,  I think you are missing an opportunity, actually two opportunities:

1) SF Northern 2926 is scheduled to become an active steam engine early this year--Why not produce an ACG Northern of her?

2) UP BigBoy 4014 is big news now, why not re-run the MTH  S version 4014 again, but use the Challenger trailing truck and tender tooling to improve it (and the tender would be prototypical.

 

Gee.  AM has the exact model for the 2926.  I seriously doubt Lionel would be willing to tool up for a duplicate model for such a limited market.

MTH never made an S Scale Big Boy...

Sorry, but the only way I would be interested in a Flyer Big Boy was if it was accurately scaled like the Challenger and not a warmed-over, oversized ex-K-Line model.

Rusty

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