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60"???  That's 8 prototype inches, almost a full 1/16" larger that would be on an S Russian. It's easy to get away with slightly undersized drivers, but harder to get away with oversized ones.

Stretched out over 5 driver pairs that's an extra 5/16" on an S scale model, not counting some additional spacing needed between drivers.  I'm not sure the selective expansion over the length wouldn't be noticeable.  Might as well just drop the trailing truck, add another driver to the Mikado's frame and plop the Pacific/Mikado boiler back on it, then call it done.

Maybe Lionel should have used two Mikado drives under the Y3...  After all, 63" drivers are close to 57" drivers...

Rusty

I believe if you take the average of all the different drivers you mentioned it would actually be 59.5".  I was just trying to round it off.  Yes, if you put the smallest next to the largest I am sure you would see a difference.  I find it quiet noticeable on the ACG Reading Atlantic...

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Anyhow...  Getting back to the original concept of this thread.

While I'm glad to see the return of the Pacific's, I'm not really in the market for one.  I've got the B&O from the olden days, although the B&O did rebuild some Pacific's with a centered headlight.  I'm sorta surprised Lionel didn't dress it up for a President's class Pacific and paint it olive or blue.  Maybe in the future as another overpriced passenger set...

Being a Santa Fe enthusiast, I could almost go for the Santa Fe Pacific, but I've made a conscious effort to concentrate my HiRail efforts to roads east of the Mississippi. (Yeah, I know Santa Fe ran to Chicago, but the majority trackage is west of the Mighty Mississippi.)

I suppose there's always the NYC...

Rusty



Being a Santa Fe enthusiast, I could almost go for the Santa Fe Pacific, but I've made a conscious effort to concentrate my HiRail efforts to roads east of the Mississippi. (Yeah, I know Santa Fe ran to Chicago, but the majority trackage is west of the Mighty Mississippi.)

I suppose there's always the NYC...

Rusty

What we need is...



That's how Lionel could get my $.        

Beyond my sarcasm -  I might add - this is the basis for the PW Lionel 2055.   They could sell it to all the Lionel collectors as the 21st Century Version.

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Last edited by Jacobpaul81
@Jacobpaul81 posted:

What we need is...



That's how Lionel could get my $.        

Beyond my sarcasm -  I might add - this is the basis for the PW Lionel 2055.   They could sell it to all the Lionel collectors as the 21st Century Version.

@DL&W Pete posted:

20210119_113117

This is long overdue.......

Same answer to both.  Unless Lionel has offered one in O, we're not going even have a hope to see it in S.

It's why I know I won't see a Russian Decapod in S from Lionel.  Or a favorite of mine in the diesel category:  Fairbanks Morse C-Liners. (Life-Like HO model shown)

Rusty

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Last edited by Rusty Traque

Same answer to both.  Unless Lionel has offered one in O, we're not going even have a hope to see it in S.

It's why I know I won't see a Russian Decapod in S from Lionel.  Or a favorite of mine in the diesel category:  Fairbanks Morse C-Liners. (Life-Like HO model shown)

Rusty

I don’t understand the correlation that we in the S gauge/scale have to mirror what is being built in the O gauge line, am I missing something here? Why can’t Lionel be inspirational and do what we want for a change?

Now I will agree with you that the FM C-liner is cool!

@Ukaflyer posted:

I don’t understand the correlation that we in the S gauge/scale have to mirror what is being built in the O gauge line, am I missing something here? Why can’t Lionel be inspirational and do what we want for a change?

Now I will agree with you that the FM C-liner is cool!

It's simple.  The research is done.  Lionel's going to do (if anything) new S products they already have data for.  And they do have a lot of data hiding in their computers that could be turned into never before made American Flyer products.  Theoretically, Lionel could make an S scale Acela...

All the brand new releases over the past decade were first offered in O Gauge.  Nothing else was created new for the Flyer line that wasn't in the Gilbert lineup.  Now, Lionel's made some changes for the better to the likes of the Baldwin switcher and GP7, but again nothing truly new.

The Mikado's and Pacific's from the early 2000's were pretty much an anomaly, done by a different and long gone team.  The Big Boy just took advantage of available tooling to create a caricature.

Rusty

Last edited by Rusty Traque

Every year and catalog is the same.  We all complain about what they didn't make that we wanted and hoped they would or what they are making is poorly done.  I think that is why they don't listen to us.

In the past when I interviewed the people at Lionel about Flyer for the S Gaugian I heard, "If you ask 20 Flyer guys what they wanted you get 20 different answers."  That was followed by, "We try to produce what we think will sell with the tooling costs we can afford."

They used to use a small secret committee of known Flyer people for suggestions.  I know of a couple of these people and they haven't really met for several years.  Well, there is always the next catalog.

Bill,  

I offered Lionel the following question that they did not take answers to........

“During the last 3 years there have been surveys on the OGR S gauge forum saying what people wanted and were willing to buy.  It’s true that you ask 20 S people you will get 20 different answers but 19 of those people will be willing to buy 19 of those suggestions.  What will it take for Lionel to actually make what your customers want to buy?”

In my opinion you will make more money making products people want (even with new tooling) then offering retreads that no one is asking for.

As a personal note, knowing this was the 75th year I put aside funds thinking I was going to buy more items then previous years because for the 75th with all the great possibilities people had suggested.  I was certain there would more new items I would want.

Well now after this catalog, I’m buying less then any previous year from Lionel.  Well maybe they will surprise me in volume 2.



—Rocco—

Please pardon my backtrack regarding 4-6-6-4 locomotives.

One of the most horrible unforgivable crimes in the history of American Railroading committed in the 20th Century occurred in Tampa, Florida, in late 1964 when several Clinchfield 4-6-6-4s were scrapped by a dealer on the spot at the Atlantic Coast Line Uceta Yard facility.

The story: I had just arrived in Tampa on Atlantic Coast Line TR#75 in December 64, on leave from the Army, after having just graduated from the US Army Transportation Corps school at Ft. Eustus, VA. when the phone rang at my parent's home.  I was welcomed and invited to accompany Chester Holley (see OGR#119) and my best friend, Robert Taff (both RIP) out to see these mammoth machines before being cut up.  Imagine, Ninteen Hundred and Sixty Four for goodness sakes!  Gads, what a thought?  The blood still runs cold in my veins when I look back on that misty overcast day in Tampa shortly before Christmas.  If only had all of them been saved, what a wonderful world this would be today!

I can't locate any information on these locomotives having been scrapped in late 64 but I was there and saw them with my buddies!  Regretfully, my notes no longer exist.  If any member can help, please sound off!

A request: Those of you who possess Lionel AF S gauge Challengers and have shot video, would you please share?

Thanks,

Joe

Last edited by Trinity River Bottoms Boomer

Thanks Rusty, great for starters!

Good lookin' locomotives, however, I'm still not sold on the crew talk.  The English language has changed so much over the years.  Just check out the way Americans talked during the era of the Gay 90's, Roaring Twenties, World War II, the Fabulous Fifties, and fast forward to Century 21!  Ditto with the railroaders, be it Casey Jones on the Cannonball Express or Denzel Washington in the motion picture "Unstoppable" for example.

I can't justify spending $$$ for any feature(s) I do not have any use for.

Joe

Thanks Rusty, great for starters!

Good lookin' locomotives, however, I'm still not sold on the crew talk.  The English language has changed so much over the years.  Just check out the way Americans talked during the era of the Gay 90's, Roaring Twenties, World War II, the Fabulous Fifties, and fast forward to Century 21!  Ditto with the railroaders, be it Casey Jones on the Cannonball Express or Denzel Washington in the motion picture "Unstoppable" for example.

I can't justify spending $$$ for any feature(s) I do not have any use for.

Joe

Crew talk/radio chatter is usually pretty inane, I never use that option.  I cringe when I hear some of the "banter" between the locomotive and dispatcher.  Especially on locomotives that didn't have radios, like most steam locomotives before the late 20th/21st century excursion era.

But, it's all just a subroutine integrated into main program and no special hardware required.  Removing it won't make things any cheaper.

I don't use smoke either. I just turn them off and not carp about the added costs.  Why?  Someone once asked Don Thompson of S Helper if removing smoke from the 2-8-0 would make the loco cost less.  He responded the bulk purchase costs of the smoke unit was negligible and wouldn't affect the MSRP.

Rusty

Then there are those of us, at least myself, that are easily entertained by the inane. I use the towercom and crewtalk. I even have the Sensor tracks programmed to trigger crewtalk and whistles when an engine passes over one. I am still disappointed the Challengers do not have brake squeal.

As for smoke, too much is almost enough. Half of my diesel fleet now has smoke as well as all the steam engines.

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