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Several of the larger dealers were offering the cylindrical hoppers for $52-55 each. Hardly a blow out as dealer web sites were listing them at $59. But........one dealer was dumping the heritage hoppers at $40 ea. for multiple purchases. Canadien schemes were not included in the discount. Reportedly some dealers returned stock back to Lionel.

Originally Posted by richabr:

Several of the larger dealers were offering the cylindrical hoppers for $52-55 each. Hardly a blow out as dealer web sites were listing them at $59. But........one dealer was dumping the heritage hoppers at $40 ea. for multiple purchases. Canadien schemes were not included in the discount. Reportedly some dealers returned stock back to Lionel.

Interesting. 

 

Looks like the Heritage Fantasy doesn't "fly" in S like it does in O. 

 

Perhaps the high-water, narrow-gauged trucks and reported coupler issues have something to do with it, also. 

 

It is a nice car otherwise.

 

Rusty

Well, the boys at the Ol' Circle L Ranch get a second chance with the next run of hoppers and the 57' mechanical reefers.

 

They mentioned at the spring TCA presentation that all Flyer scale cars will now be coming with hirail wheelsets, a decision that was made after the 2014 catalog went to press.  They admitted that things with the wheels haven't quite worked out (looking a little uncomfortable talking about it) as expected, no mention of coupler or high-water issues, though.  I would hope they address these issues, too.

 

There was a brief mention of revisiting scale wheels, but I'm not going to hold my breath.  I'll just swap out the trucks with AM or MTH scale wheel trucks.

 

Rusty

I met with Matt Ashba of LIonel at York.  I was conducting an interview with him for the S Gaugian to be printed later.  Matt is Director of Product Planning.  He explained what happened with the wheel sets and that will be in the article.  The short answer is that the manufacturing people in China did not produce the trucks Lionel wanted.

 

The good news is that the next group of hoppers and new Mechanical Refer will not come out in scale wheels like the 2014 catalog says.  Since its printing Lionel has decided to have them all come with high rail wheels.  Scale wheel will be available for the trucks at an extra cost.  These scale wheels will meet the code 100 standard.    

Originally Posted by Roundhouse Bill:

I met with Matt Ashba of LIonel at York.  I was conducting an interview with him for the S Gaugian to be printed later.  Matt is Director of Product Planning.  He explained what happened with the wheel sets and that will be in the article.  The short answer is that the manufacturing people in China did not produce the trucks Lionel wanted.

 

The good news is that the next group of hoppers and new Mechanical Refer will not come out in scale wheels like the 2014 catalog says.  Since its printing Lionel has decided to have them all come with high rail wheels.  Scale wheel will be available for the trucks at an extra cost.  These scale wheels will meet the code 100 standard.    

Hopefully they'll also address the off-roading, high-water-pants bolsters.

 

Rusty

Originally Posted by Roundhouse Bill:

Rusty, I don't understand your comments?

The truck's bolsters make the hopper sit about 1/4" too high.  Outside of it looking awkward, Lionel had to include a spacer to bring a Kadee coupler DOWN to the correct height.  When the car sits at the correct height, the car not only looks much better, no spacer is needed to mount a Kadee coupler.

 

Outside of the wheel gauge issue, the car sitting too high got really hammered by some of the scale folks.

 

Hirail wheels do not hit the car when it is sitting at the correct height either.  I temporarily mounted AM trucks with SHS hirail wheels and an SHS flyer compatible coupler on my BN hopper car and there was no trouble with either the coupler or wheels rubbing.

 

Photo's can be found on the 3rd page of this thread.  I don't have the ability to attach them from the PC I'm at right now.

 

Rusty

Last edited by Rusty Traque

From the interview I think the second issue of hoppers will have a completly different truck.  There will be no change in the hopper mold.  Scale guys will have to make due with the shell.  I assume the new truck will fix the issues with spacing but there is no way to be sure.  The easiest Hi Rail fix is to use a Gilbert truck with the small rivet hole.  The screw for the current truck holds it fine and it runs well.

Originally Posted by John Albee:
It's just a huge shame that the scale guys have to pay more for accurate trucks, via MTH and now Lionel.

Well John it is but in all actuality we're paying $80.00 MSRP for a car so we really shouldn't be complaining about the cost of the new trucks. What do you guys think? 

Originally Posted by TRAINMANTIM:
Originally Posted by John Albee:
It's just a huge shame that the scale guys have to pay more for accurate trucks, via MTH and now Lionel.

Well John it is but in all actuality we're paying $80.00 MSRP for a car so we really shouldn't be complaining about the cost of the new trucks. What do you guys think? 

Well, the Lionel replacement trucks are $25.00/pair(so far.)  An ADDITIONAL 31% to the cost of the car if one were to replace the trucks with hopefully corrected ones.

 

American Models trucks are $7.45/pair.  I know the AM trucks will give me the correct car height with some minor work and material from by scrap box.  The Lionel replacement trucks: unknown at this time.

 

Guess which trucks I'm going to use.

 

The fact is, the choices are becoming more limited.  True, AM gives you the choice when you order a car or locomotive.  S Scale America includes both wheelsets in the box on past production, but you still have to buy your own Kadees. 

 

For the latest SSA car, the X-29 boxcar kit($48.00, 4 bucks more that most of the previous runs of assembled SSA cars...)  You have to supply or buy your own trucks, couplers, paint, decals (x-29 decals are about 8 bucks, BTW) and of course, your own labors.  Add in those costs of couplers and trucks and you're heading north of $60.00, minus assembly, painting, decaling.

 

SHS is gone, no sense crying in the beer about it.  MTH may consider a separate sku# for scale wheeled cars, but it's too early to tell, but it's pretty clear they're not going to include both types wheelsets with the freight cars.

 

Now, across these 4 companies, there is NO duplication at present, so if you want a specific car and it's made by one of these 4, one will have to deal the way it comes, the cost of the product and any modifications.

 

Now, I have a couple of the next run of hoppers on order, along with the 57' mechanical reefers.  If Lionel straightens out the truck issues, great.  If not, well I got a little reworking to do.

 

Rusty

 

 

Last edited by Rusty Traque
Originally Posted by Ukaflyer:

Rusty, I got the impression from Bill that Lionel will produce scale wheel sets to code 100 for the hi-rail trucks as replacements, so it would be cheaper than buying two complete trucks, is this not the case then?

 

 

Even if they just supply the wheelsets, we don't know the price yet.  I would bet around $10.00-$12.00 for a set of 4, though. 

 

Plus, truck bolsters that make the car sit about 1/4" too high bothers a lot of scale guys, myself included.  Heck, it even bothers me in a hirail/Flyer environment.

 

I really would like to see Lionel straighten out all the truck issues.  It would be best for all concerned.  The hoppers themselves are pretty nice and I'm looking forward to the 57' reefers.

 

Rusty

Originally Posted by Popi:

ordered these two cars from Boone Hobbies in Iowa. They shipped very fast and these cars can still be had from other dealers across the country. Check out the MTH web site for additional dealers.

 

http://www.mthtrains.com/content/30-75363

 

http://www.mthtrains.com/content/30-75311

 

more cylindrical hoppers available here:

 

http://www.mthtrains.com/searc...r_search/cylindrical

 


Except, these are O Gauge cars, not S.

 

Rusty

Originally Posted by John Albee:
When I was in 2 rail O I paid $80 a car.
S scale has caught up.
Thankfully, I have enough cars if I never purchased another one.

Same here John. Between my dad's unbuilt PRS kits and all the other cars that we have and some on order, there is enough cars to run. The only thing that I would like to know is if Lionel will put the newly tooled truck on the 57' mechanical refer they are coming out with? 

Last edited by TRAINMANTIM
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OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

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