Conventional, TMCC, DCS simultaneously?

Buy Barry's book on DCS. You are asking  huge questions and they are not yes and no answers. Bary's book touches on all of it. It was a huge help to me for understanding it all. We all have those same questions in the beginning.  I downloaded book from the MTH website. There are also some good books on Legacy out there also. I know this is not an answer but the answer for me was reading a few books till it all sunk in. 

Kenn,

 Your first issue is trying to run 2 trains with the CW-80. You are looking at 80watts, and 5 amps. Thats enough for one passenger train OR 2 freight trains, provided you go light on the smoke units. If you are seriously thinking about running 2 trains, you need more power. You could add another CW-80, or almost anything else to the package.

 

Question1: In theory you can operate both TMCC and conventional on the same track at the same time. The usual problem is that TMCC units like 16v or better. Running most conventional engines at 16+ volts gets them flying along rather quickly. Watch out on the corners, especially with O27 track!

 

Question 2: The short answer is "Yes", with the proviso on power requirements for 2 trains mentioned above.

 

Question3: A DCS engine will operate in a TMCC environment, but in conventional only. If you add an MTH TIU to your system, you can run the DCS engine in command mode. TMCC CANNOT control a DCS engine in command mode. DCS and TMCC can be operated on the same track at the same time. The control signals and equipment (under normal conditions) do not interfere with each other.

 

Question 4: See Question 3 above.

 

Question 5: I have no experience with a DCS remote commander.

 

Question 6: Same answer as question 1 above.

 

My advice:

1)Up grade your power source.

2) If you plan to run TMCC and DCS on the same layout, get the TMCC package with remote  and command base, AND the MTH DCS system with the remote and TIU. 

3) For excellent help on using your DCS, post questions to the DCS portion of this Forum. Barry and others are an absolutely wonderful resource!

 

Hope this helps!

 

Chris

LVHR

You ask a lot of questions and I'm sure there are others that even now are forming answers. Some general observations. A command base will not by itself give you remote control of a conventional engine. In each case listed the only control of the conventional engine will be from the CW80 transformer handle. To get remote control of a conventional engine you will need a TPC 3 or 4 or at least a Powermaster.

 

MTH does not recomend the use of a CW80 with their PS2 or 3 engines. Some will work in conventional mode and some will do funny things. To run any PS2 or PS3 engine in command mode you must have some DCS controller. TMCC in any form will not give you command control of a PS2 or 3 engine.

 

Running two engines of any combination at the same time with one CW80 is iffy. You really should have more power.

 

Yes you can run conventional engines, TMCC engines, and DCS engines at the same time on the same track in either conventional mode or in command mode with their controllers given the following understandings. Any control action taken on the conventional engine, speed control, direction control, will have an effect on the other engines. Speed control will tend to affect the speed of the others to some extent. Directional control will stop all engines. The TMCC will need to be restarted and the DCS will restart on its own or may take off in conventional mode depending on the DCS signal.

 

Finally the DCS remote commander may not work reliably if you are trying to controll the speed of a conventional engine at the same time. In any case the CW80 is not MTH approved.

 

Al

First, the CW80 is an extremely poor choice for operating more than 1 engine at a time and is also not recommended for use with PS2 engines. I'll attempt to answer your questions based on a transformer of adequate power and compatibility:

1. Can conventional and tmcc locomotives run simultaneously on the same track powered by a CW-80 transformer and controlled by a Cab-! handheld and a command base? If not, is there any add on accessory equipment that would allow it?

Absolutely!

2. Using a CW-80 transformer, CAB-1 and a command base - can two tmcc locomotives run on the same track simultaneously?

Absolutely!

3. Can a proto2 locomotive be run on a track controlled by a tmcc CAB-1 and command base with a CW-80 transformer? If not, is there any additional add on accessory equipment that would allow it?

No, because the Cab-1 and command base cannot operate PS2/PS3 engines conventionally or under DCS. To do so, you would need either a DCS set or a DCS Remote Commander to operate under DCS, or a TPC or similar unit to operate PS2/PS3, or any other conventional engine, conventionally.

4. Can a Proto2 locomotive and a tmcc locomotive run simultaneously on the same track powered by a cw-80 transformer with a tmcc command base and CAB 1 handheld? If not, is there any additional equipment that would allow it?

Same answer as #3 above.

5. Can a tmcc locomotive run on track controlled by a dcs remote commander? If not, is thgere any additional equipment that would allow it?

No. You need a command base and a Cab-1, or a command base, a DCS TIU and Remote, and a connecting cable. A DCS Remote Commander can only run PS2/PS3 engines

6. Can a proto2 and conventional locomotive run simultaneously on track controlled by a dcs rempote commander? If not, is there any additional equipment that would allow it?

Yes, however, the DCS Remote Commander cannot operate the conventional engine. You'd need a transformer throttle to control the conventional engine.

 

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site! Click on the link below to go to MTH's web page for the book!

I can run two trains with my CW80 no problem. What I do is I set my Lionel Hogwarts train (conventional) on the track with 3 lighted passenger cars and smoke unit on, set the throttle on the CW80 and get it moving. Then I address the TMCC locomotive I want and get it moving, controlling it with the CAB1. It's easy. I've tried 3 trains with the CW80 and that's when it really started to struggle. They all ran but I was getting a whole lot of blinky light in the CW80.

Thanks guys for advice given so far. Though I've been running trains for a while, they've all been conventional - running two independent loops of track each powered by its own  CW-80 transformer. Then I saw a MTH Proto2 steamer I loved and purchased it. A forum member recommended  the most economical way to get started in DCS was with a DCS remote commander set and  z-500 transformer so I followed that advice and purchased two (one for each set of tracks). Just last weekend my wife bought  me a limited edition Atlas TMCC equipped SW 8 diesel which I wanted for quite a while. To activate the crew talk I had to run TMCC so I purchased CAB-1 and command  base units from a forum member.

 

That's basically what I have and the situation I’m in - trying to find the simplest yet  best, most economical way to integrate these three different systems of conventional, MCC and DCS using the equipment I've already invested time and money into for my two independent track loops layout.

 

Many of you  advise it can't be done using the two CW80 transformers I already have (I also have two CW-40 transformers from two other starter sets), so what would all of you suggest for powering these two independent loops of track? Can I be successful in what I want to do using a combo of all these transformers rather than investing more $ into a different one? While economics is definitely to be considered I don't want to be shortsighted and penny wise, pound foolish as they say.

 

Finally, Barry's book is obviously the one and all go to source for MTH DCS, but what book would  be considered a similar all encompassing authoritative source for TMCC?

 

Thank you everyone for all the great feedback you provide.

Remember that conventional engines are controlled by changes in track voltage and the DC signals sent on the track for Whistle/horn and bell.  So a device to control track voltage is needed.  Transformer handle works, or a Power Master which can read CAB-1 signals to change voltage on the track and send the DC signals also works.  This gives you TMCC remote capability to run conventional trains.

 

Adding the TMCC command base gives you the ability to run TMCC engines.  As mentioned you need to pick conventional engines that run at 12-14V if you still want your TMCC engine to run satisfactorily.  While it can be done, you wind up running the conventional engine at one speed so it is not very satisfying, unless you have a large layout.   G

I've fooled around with trying to run conventional and DCS or TMCC on a single power district, and the results are not very satisfactory.  My advice would be to keep the conventional on one track and run the command stuff on the other.  You can freely mix DCS and TMCC stuff on a single track.

As I see it that is not what you said you had the first time. Let's start over. You have two (2) loops of track with one (1) CW80 connected to each and one (1) TMCC command base connected to the two loops. You have obtained two (2) DCS remote commanders and a z-500 brick for each but have not connected them up as yet.

 

First, the z-500 brick is better than the CW80 for the PS2/3 engines, however it does not have as much power for running the train. I hate to say it but you really need a z-1000 or better to replace each CW80.

 

If you insist on running engines conventionally you need someway to control the voltage. If you use a brick like the z-1000 to supply power you will need either a Powermaster or a TPC 3 or TPC 4. If you find an older Lionel transformer like a 1033 or LW to replace the CW80's you could use that but you will not have remote control of the conventional engines, Transformer control only.

 

There is another option that actually will be better in the long run. Sell the two DCS remote commanders and the z-500's and use the money to buy two z-1000 power bricks or even better two Lionel 180 power bricks. Then invest in a DCS TIU and controller set. The DCS TIU has 4 output channels and two of them are set up already to control conventional engines. That will give you remote control of your conventional engines, command control of your DCS engines, and if you add the MTH connecting cable between your TMCC command base and the TIU, you will even be able to control your TMCC engines with the DCS controller. You will have a much better setup that will not have so many pieces and give you better control.

 

Al