Does Lionel have a standardized size for their "semi-scale" cars?

You raise one of the biggest challenges in being in O Gauge but not in the full 1:48 scale segment. Sometimes semi-scale items are scale, for example, length but not width. I'm an O27/traditional/semi-scale guy and have a few 1:48 scale 2-bay hoppers that look right at home, just a little wide. Same for a 36' box car. But, you're right, so I steer clear of these: MTH Premier, Lionel LionScale, Standard O, and Scale; and K-Line O Scale Classics. Too big.

On the other hand, all Industrial Rail, all MTH Rugged Rails, most Williams/WBB, and most Lionel Traditional work for me except for their 4-bay hoppers. Same for most K-Line other than O Scale Classics. Some care is needed on these, but not as much as with MTH Rail King which can be REALLY hard to discern. Just look at the Rail King woodside caboose for example.....it's as big as a 6464 box car. With Rail King, I look at the dimensions on the website for every online purchase.

I have mostly steam engines. I don't think there's a standard compression ratio in any brand.  In modern engines, I avoid Lionel steamers marked specifically as Junior and O27 as they appear too compressed to me. Prime example, the O27 Berk. Great for Christmas trees but I replaced mine with a Rail King Berk and a WBB Berk.

On diesels, other than one token set of F3s, I only have Alco FA2s and the NW/SW class switchers. I know those switchers are close to scale size, but they're much smaller and look better to me on my not-to-scale layout. To me, the FA2s look better on my smaller layout with semi-scale rolling stock.

Hope that helps.

@Mannyrock posted:

Does Lionel use a standardized, consistent set of size parameters in making these semi-scale cars?   Also, do they have a special brand-name or designation for this size of car?

It's definitely quite frustrating, as you so rightly point out.

And, yet it's so very simple:

   No, and No.

Mike

yup yup, that helps me to carve down, sadly, the Gorgeous rolling stock which is scale. too big. , more closely. Helping me to make better choices on what i buy.... that it just may be close enough to work. thanks to raisingfourdaughters raising4daughters....

So, as Mellow Hudson Mike succinctly pointed out... "it's definitely quite frustrating, as you so rightly point out.

And, yet it's so very simple:   No, and No. Mike"

There are three sizes. 1/4" scale or near scale is the largest size. 3/16" scale is the smallest and it looks ridiculous on O gauge trucks. If you have one of these, such as the Lionel #6468, you can remove the Lionel trucks and install American Flyer trucks and it looks good. The last size and the size most difficult to define is called traditional size. It is smaller than 1/4" and much larger than 3/16", A boxcar should be wider than 9 feet. So a 1/4" boxcar should have a width in the range of 2-3/8" to 2-1/2". A 3/16" boxcar should have a width around 1-7/8". And the traditional size boxcar is just under 2-1/4" in width. Length and height vary greatly in the models and in the prototype.

I agree that it seems there is no standardized size for semi-scale or traditional train cars. However, my space limitations and moderate size layout with 031 curves and reverse loops at each end of the 2 main lines are such that I prefer semi-scale to scale.

Semi-scale enables me to run more train cars, as many as 10 or 11 plus a modest size caboose, instead of only 8 scale size cars and  caboose. I can't run more because the train will hit its tail running through the reverse loops.

For boxcars, the Postwar 6464 series is what I would choose as the standard for semi-scale. Such boxcars are included in the train shown in the short video below:

Others that would be good for a semi-scale standard would be the Postwar operating milk cars, coal dump cars and log dump cars.

This short video shows a long train (for my layout) consisting of such operating log and coal dump cars as well as semi-scale gondolas and caboose:

For the same reasons I prefer a smaller than scale size caboose. IMO, this Jersey Central caboose is an ideal semi-scale size:

Regarding my post immediately above, I have taken no measurements to justify my opinions about the various semi-scale cars mentioned. Instead, they are based on my subjective observations, in other words, simply what looks good to me.

@Mannyrock There was a discussion several years ago on the Forum that you might find interesting:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...-scale-or-semi-scale

Tom

@Mannyrock posted:

Hello,

My layout is fully built, and I primarily use small to medium sized steamers and diesels.  Because of this, the true scale 1/48 size rail cars look ridiculously gigantic when hauled behind these locomotives.

I have acquired, here and there over the past few years, several Lionel boxcars that appear to be about 1.5 inch shorter, and about 1/2 to 3/4 inch lesser in height, than the 1/48 scale cars.   These "semi-scale" cars look great in my layout.  The Lionel billboard type cars I have acquired all seem to be this semi-scale size.

Does Lionel use a standardized, consistent set of size parameters in making these semi-scale cars?   Also, do they have a special brand-name or designation for this size of car?   (These cars are significantly larger than the smaller traditional size cars I have.)

The reason I ask, is that in trying to buy Lionel cars on-line, it is really hard to tell how big or small the cars are that I am looking at.  If these semi-scale cars have a particular designation or tradename by Lionel, then it would make finding them a lot easier.

Thanks for any information.

Mannyrock

This all comes down to what we call in G scale the 4 foot rule, if it looks good at 4 feet it’s good. Merry Christmas to all

Manny,

Your question is something that everyone who likes to model semi-scale deals with. Both your own thoughts and those of @raising4daughters are the same experiences I have of trial and error. It is hard to buy online, and I have used an old trick where if the third digit on the box is a "6" or "5" (I.E. 6-16750) it would mean semi-scale. If it has a "9" as the second digit it could go either way and if has a "7" I stay away from it. I've guessed the wrong in the past many times. I know it's cold comfort, but you are in good company

-Matt

Manny there is no consistent standard, it comes down to what looks good to your eyes.  Obviously this is easier to discern when buying in person vs. from a catalogue or over the Internet.

One challenge is that some traditional Lionel pieces are "selectively compressed."  The width might be close to full 1/48, and the height reduced only slightly.  But the length was often reduced to allow equipment to navigate sharp curves.  This isn't a bad thing!  In fact, when I see real trains photographed through "big glass" (long telephoto lens), to me the images look like O gauge Lionel, sharp curves and all.

Newer "semi-scale" or traditional trains such as RailKing are often not as artful to my eyes.  Some are blatantly 1/60 or 1/64 models riding on wheels gauged to 1.25."  Also, a lot of the newer stuff is bigger than postwar, and requires O36 or O42 curves for an acceptable appearance.

Our hobby is a type of interpretive art, so it just comes down to what looks good.