Help identify & 'date' this

This is Set 141W from the 1939 Lionel catalog

Oh THANK YOU SOOO MUCH LVfan!  It was my fathers, and I never got (or FORgot) the details before he passed.

So LVfan, do you happen to have a 1951 Catalogue?  I also have a 2343 Santa Fe F3 and wonder if it was also a set?  Mine has both the P and the T (dummy), and if it was a set it probably included (at least) a 6462 Gondola, 6472 Refer, 6555 Tanker & 6475 'Boose, and from the pictures I've seen of the '51 catalogue cover, it might be the one in the middle.

From the 1951 Catalog:

Lionel Set No. 2175W

Contents:

1 No.2343 Santa Fe Twin Diesel

1 No. 6456 Lehigh Valley RR Hopper Car

1 No. 3464 Operating Boxcar (the catalog illustration has the Santa Fe version)

1 No. 6465 Double Dome "Sunoco" Oil Car

1 No 6462 Gondola Car

1 No 6457 Illuminated Caboose

OK 1951....... The only Santa Fe Set offered for 1951 was outfit number 2175W. Now here is where this gets fun........ You gave me a list of the freight car numbers in your set, 6555 tank car, a single dome Sunoco car which was made in 1949 and 1950 and included in the Santa Fe sets for both years. Set 2151W in 1949 and 2175W in 1950. Based on what you provided you do not have a 1949 set because you did not mention a operating ore dump car number 3469 which that year set had. You said look at year 1951 that set had a double dome Sunoco tank car number 6465, not your tank car. So I believe your set 2175W is from 1950. I don't know how you aquired this set if you received it for Christmas 1951 you would think its a 1951 set. It could be a brand new set ( then ) beautiful on Christmas morning but manufactured in 1950 and Mom and Dad got a better deal on it in fall of 51. This last sentence is just fun speculation on my part

The catalog page I attached is for 1951

Enjoy

Frank           

Here is the 1950 catalog page

rattler21 Here's a picture it's of the operating Box Car

Frank, Robert, & John, thanks for your reply's.  I do not have a Hopper, instead I have a Refer, and I don't ever recall ever having a Hopper.  But from what I have been able to read, there was some inconsistencies in the sets contents, so perhaps the Refer got substituted.  But otherwise the set shown in the 1950 catalogue 2175W is my set.  I was born in June '47.  That make me 4-1/2 years old Christmas '51.  My Dad LOVED to set the train up at Christmas and had the  1939 141W that you helped me identify above.  I do believe that I received it for Christmas, but it could have been for my 4th Birthday in June '51, but in either case, it is quite possible that it was bought ahead of time, explaining a 1950 set received in 1951, so your speculation could be Spot On.  The instruction Manual that I have has a 1949 Copywrite, but of course it is not specific for the set, and probably not revised every year. From the other research I have done, I know that the F3 is either a '50 or '51 from the GM decal.

Thanks again y'all

Rich

@MountainGator posted:

...otherwise the set shown in the 1950 catalogue 2175W is my set...

Thanks Rob!  Frank (et al), just some background on me & the Sit.  We lived near Pittsburgh PA. My dad worked in the Mill's then, but my Grandfather on my Mom's side was a Merchant (men's clothing store), so we understood seasonal merchandise an both appreciated & REGRETED the "SALE".  I don't know , but speculate that this MAY have been purchased at Kaufman's Department Store in Pittsburgh, and IF they had excess inventory after Christmas 1950, I could see them putting it "On Sale" in January (or so) to clear out the inventory space.  Back then most everyone operated on "A Keystone" i.e. 60/40 so their costs would have (probably) been $34.50, & I could see them 'unloading it' in the $39 ~ $45 range.   A Lot of $$ in 1951, but then I had GREAT parents, was an only child (although not guaranteed at that point beck then) AND A DAD WHO LOVED ME & TRAINS!!! .

Again, Thank y'all for your help and StaySafe!

Rich (aka MG)

Rich

You are most welcome. I am delighted that we were all able to figure out this "magical toy mystery."

Based on your story posted right above it makes perfect sense that your set was a sale item. Here in NJ we had  "Two Guys Department Stores" that would do the same thing. How and where your wonderful Mom and Dad bought the set is not important. You received a magnificent Lionel electric train with the most desired F3 locomotives of  the post war era, and you have wonderful memories of playing with it.

Now.........since you never had one. Go get a hopper ( there easy to find ) and then play with your train.

  Enjoy

Frank

For those of you keeping score at home, something selling for $10 in 1950 would sell for $110 seventy-one years later in 2021 (just inflation alone, of course - so that doesn't account for changes in technology in the locomotives, etc.).  So that $57.50 set would go for ~$630 today and the $70 set would go for almost ~$800.  I have no idea what a comparable set lists for in the Lionel catalog for 2021... but I'd bet its not too far from that.  Presumably you get more for your dollar technology-wise now - though less repairable by the average owner.

That's great info richs09, thanks.  But a couple questions for you.1) what is the multiplier for something purchased in 1939? and 2) [the $64,000 question] what do you think the $57.50 1950 Set actually worth today (assuming that is is in condition C-6 ~ C-7)?