jeff,

same engine, same problem....when you  take it apart take some pics so i know what to expect when i do mine.  what was the part number you ordered?

Ouch!  What are you going to use to replace them?

 

I've decided to use MTH units when my Lionel's quit.  I just like the smoke on MTH stuff!

Greg - You made my night! Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one!!

 

I'm going to use MTH fan motors to replace them. Part # BE-0000041.

 

I'll take some pics and send them to you!!

Well, if you become a guru on Lionel smoke fan motors, you'll always be busy!

Open  up the engine with the fan motor powered.  Take your forefinger and thumb and pinch the motor gently giving it a twist in both directions  and you can get it quiet.  They are not high tech motors.  We have to do what we have to do.  I know how much these things upset people and I do not blame them at all.  I hate them as I do a large number each year between Lionel and MTH.

 

I have a friend in New Jersey who is not a fan of loud motors.  Every time I get a batch of motors in, I put each one in my motor tester and save the exceptionally quiet motors for him.  I am sure he will chime in as he is well known on the forum.  

 

I buy large numbers of MTH and Lionel motors each year.  I agree with all of you on this.

 

Marty - Thanks for the tip!!

jeff,

the one i have now is whining and it is getting worse... only a matter of time.... is that a direct swap?

Jeff, it works most of the time.

Thanks!

thanks, that would really help!  does the mth unit have the same connectors?

Just be ready to unsolder the old and solder the new!

Lionel is horrible when it comes to smoke units. I just bought a brand new engine and having a problem with it.  They will never get it right.

Lionel smoke motors are kinda like the mafia....you gotta pay "protection" (read new smoke motors) to keep dem things runnin......if ya don't well......the boss is gonna have to deal with you (read cab lights flashing).....

 

I feel your pain.  I get them in large numbers.  here are MTH and Lionel.  When you try oil, hold the unit/locomotive upside down and just touch the bearing with your oil  needle.  Wipe the motor shaft clean of oil with a Q tip before putting the impeller back on.  By just touching the bearing it will wick what it needs.  I had one repair where an expert soaked the motor.  You know how that went.

 

One last point, when you push your impeller back on the shaft, put the bottom of the motor against something hard or the motor could come apart.

 

When you un solder and solder the wires on/off the motor, tin the tip of your iron and do not hold on motor connections any longer than needed.

 

 

Well, my 2003 Dodge Ram 1500 blower for the heat started to make some noise the other day. Sounded like it was all angry and upset at me. Oh dear, what do I do? LOL

 

I mean really......

 

MTH and Lionel both have really awesome smoke systems, but failure is always in the cards no matter what one does. I run smoke on my AC6000, but not on my SD70Ace. The reason? I guess I am waiting to see when the motor might go on the AC6000. LOL

 

Truthfully, it never will as I hardly use any of these locomotives nearly as much as some do theirs on their layouts. I run my loco's fairly easy and only for a few turns around my small layout.

 

In reality, as far as diesels are concerned and especially modern ones, smoke is really not necessary and actually it does look wrong. Now on steam locomotives, it is an absolute must to have smoke because a steam locomotive without smoke just doesn't look or feel right. So, of course the members that run their steam locomotives with smoke all the time are more likely to encounter a burned out motor versus those that do not use the smoke feature.

 

"failure is not an option"

 

Pete

Motors are cheap.  I run without smoke when alone.  I run with smoke for train nights or whenever someone comes to visit.  All my smoke fan motors work.  I have a few engines.

 

HI JEFF • 

In my next life I'm coming back as a Lionel Tech, specializing in smoke units and fan motors!!!

INTERESTING THOUGHT••••

Marty, Jeff,

 

In this exploded parts list, do I need a #90?  Does this include the fan?

 

http://www.lionel.com/Customer...p;resultsPerPage=200

 

Jeff you have motivated me to do this now ... LOL I will stick with Lionel parts though

One day these will be brushless and that will be the end of bad motors .

Will an overfill cause the fan motor to stop working?  I was running my new Berk last night at the club and the smoke stopped.  Thinking I was out of smoke fluid I put about 20 drops in (accordingto the manual), and the unit still didn't work.  I do however still get smoke from the whistle.   Gonna try letting it sit upsidedown on some paper towels in the cradle today.  Suggestions?

Greg,

 

Go into the smoke unit reference and look at # 14.  You need part number 610-1154-130.  After you read that it is unavailable, hit my email when you see that.

 

We would all love a brushless motor.  I think we might have a better chance to hit the lottery. 

 

John, overfilling will do it in.  I have seen this at a local club when a member kept putting more and more smoke fluid in an engine.  When it spills over into the fan chamber, the rest is history.

So when do you think Lionel will start thinking and maybe hire new people who could make a product that is not junk?

I expect I'll be seeing John's engine soon, I'm saving an MTH fan motor for him.

 

In defense of Lionel and every other manufacturer, the smoke fan motor does it's job well when operating properly.  Yes some go bad due to no fault of the owner/operator (in most cases) but the end result is we have a locomotive that smokes good.  If someone came up with a better motor, they would all use it.  I know this is a problem to many people.  I have seen them bad in new unrun locomotives and others that run with no issue. 

 

I have searched far and wide for a replacement.  No luck.

 

Gary, everyone thinks repair guys make tons of money and have fun.  Wrong on both counts.  Lionel (Mike Reagan) did a lot of work to establish a network of properly trained tech people to service todays trains.  Lionel did away with old service stations that had someone who worked on old Lionel.  Anyone can work on old Lionel and keep it going.  It was a great product.  This forum has a decent number of trained people that try to help members with a problem.  I read many members each day and try to learn.  I do the Legacy,TMCC, and DCS locomotives at Charles Ro and get to see many issues that I try to share with forum members who are having the same problems.  I do not want any more work but am willing to share information to help someone.

 

One last thing, if you order a smoke fan motor from Lionel or MTH, order a few as they do not cost a lot of money.

Marty,

When you say "Go into the smoke unit reference and look at # 14" - where is the smoke unit reference?  Sorry sorta new to this self repair ...

Greg, go to the Lionel website, click on customer service, then click on replacement parts then in text search put in your Lionel item number 6-11330.  Click search and your menue will come up.  Click smoke unit reference.

Marty, one issue with that reference.

6101154130

DC MOTOR / MINIATURE FAN / DIAGONAL SCREW HOLES

14

$7.50

Unavailable

It seems when I search for smoke motors at Lionel, they frequently come up as unavailable.

John, I stated that earlier.  I know that is unavailable on the consumer site.  That is why I told him to hit my email.    I use a lot of these and keep a huge stock as I replace many.  The price of $7.50 is retail.   If guys need any, I would bet Boxcar Bill would have them for retail sale.

 

I missed that Marty.

 

Do you find the replacement motors have been more reliable?  I keep lots of the MTH motors around, but I've been reluctant to replace a Lionel with another Lionel until I know they won't come right back to me.  I have had people that have had two motor replacements at Lionel service, only to have the same issue again.  I haven't seen any of them back with the replacement MTH motor.

 

John, I find them to be the same.  I buy several at a time and hit each one on my motor tester.  If any do not sound healthy, they go back for replacements.  Like you, I hate to do a job two times.

What kind of "motor tester" do you have?  I just connect them to a bench power supply with the impeller on them for testing.

The Brushes don't make the motors squeal, so it won't fix the problem.  The bearings going bad cause the noise, and the resultant increase in current to overcome the rotational torque requirements due to the bad bearings causes the electronics to shut off the motor.

 

Shutting down the fan motor and blinking the cab light is much better solution than electronics burning up, as the replacement PCB cost is very expensive!  The motor is not expensive, although frustrating that it failed.

 

We are certainly aware of the problem, and have tightened the incoming inspection process on the motors; and perform an AQL test on the lots. Still some motors are not reflective of the lot, and they fail.

 

Jon, Have you determined why they fail, or is there a number of reasons?

John, I have an MTH spring contact pad from an upgrade with two wires from the battery soldered on.  I just hold the motor against it and it runs or not.

 

Jon, I love the blinking cab light.  Makes life easy.  

OK, something really fancy like mine.

 

Just the other day my LEGACY GP35 cab light blinked 3 times signifying a smoke fan motor defect. According to the owner's manual, the smoke unit can be reset 3 times before it shuts down and has to be serviced.

 

The next time I powered up I turned on the smoke unit with my CAB-2 and it worked fine at all 3 settings. When I brought the locomotive to a stop the cab light again blinked 3 times. I did a reset 3 times and the blinking stopped and the smoke unit shut down.

 

This sequence has occurred several times since the cab light first blinked 3 times. The smoke unit works until the engine is stopped.

There is no limit, at least on any that I've worked on.  When you reset, you get the three tries again.

 

I did have a rash of Lionel smoke fan motor failures on brand new engines but the problem seems all fixed now!  I love the new FA-2 and bought several of them.  They are terrific, the best!  Except for the smoke fan motors.  Three did not work from the start, all others but 1 failed within 1 or 2 operating sessions- I'm talking within 20 minutes!  Three blinking lights.  For a 90% failure rate.  Oiling bearings, test running the motors, etc. was all time consuming and the motor would then run only 10 more minutes or so before 3 blinking lights again.  I did not want to have them fixed under warranty, that didn't last long before.  I did not want to replace them with new motors from the same faulty supply bin.  On O Gauge Forum I learned to use MTH fan motors.  So I did.  So far- they are all working properly!

Now I can enjoy all features of the best: the FA-2 look, Legacy control, 3 and 4 unit lashups, and lots of Alco smoke from each and every unit!

Thanks O Gauge Forum!