Instructions recieved, photos of roundhouse

You didn't say what material the kit is made of, or how complex it is. But if you have 1/2 the kit built, you should have a feel for how the rest will go together. 

Thanks, it is a plaster Roundhouse kit.

Hi Roger,

Everyone else is patient and supportive  but you?  Thanks for the order. 

 Just kidding of course

I have been following this kit from the beginning  myself and you as well in forum corraspondence with maker and York etc... I was considerating it after it was completed ,but knew it was taking a little extra time.

 I know how patient you have been.   Id bet if you take some pictures of what is complete- what parts you have now - and maybe some dimensions we could all take a look and offer some suggestions. O r maybe even "the maker" would chime in and help out. Who knows it may help him to make better directions according to questions that come up.The proto type at york didnt look all that complex, but without any directions anything could be complicated for fear of messing up an expensive kit.

That would be my approach if you cant wait any longer.

Id bet if you take some pictures of what is complete- what parts you have now - and maybe some dimensions we could all take a look and offer some suggestions. O r maybe even "the maker" would chime in and help out. Who knows it may help him to make better directions according to questions that come up.The proto type at york didnt look all that complex, but without any directions anything could be complicated for fear of messing up an expensive kit.

I second this approach! there is a LOT of GREAT talent here on this forum and I for one would take a chance! Afterall, what do you have to loose?

It depends on your level of experience with kit building.  First, make sure you have the whole kit.  If not, I would wait for the rest of the kit and the instructions.  If you have the whole kit and feel experienced enough to finish it ... go ahead.  Please post some pics whenever you finish it.

Rick

You see, Roger, it's all your fault.  17 purchasers have been patient but you can't be.  What is your problem?  Thank you.

Customer Service Department

XYZ model building company

I'd probably - no, I would - I this point I would finish the building mysel, even if I had to start from scratch and build it scratch or bash another roundhouse, etc..  Then never, ever deal with these people again.

Roger, you should press on and finish the structure without the rest of the instructions. I'm pretty sure there is enough model-building skill among the forum members here to assist you in getting it done. Unbelievable that a company would provide its customers with parts for a complete kit but can't provide complete instructions. Obviously somebody who's building a craftsman-type kit is not looking for instant gratification, but over 2 years to receive the full kit and just partial instructions is too long. Complete RR yards have been built in 2 years, not just the roundhouse.   

Roger, you would think they had to have all the instruction to see if the prototype went together properly. I for one would be not very happy. You sit with a big space on your layout and no way to fill it for over a year. Nothing needs to take that long if they really wanted to finish the instructions. I think they figured they didn't sell enough of the kits and put you guys on the back burner. I buy lots of kits and would love to know the name of the company. Hope everything works out for you. Don 

Roger:

Most of us can figure out who the supplier is. This is the kind of publicity that no business owner wants. Let's see how quickly he responds to you after this gets enough exposure.

If you go ahead and attempt to finish this project and something goes wrong, it will become your problem. I would give him a deadline to furnish you with the instructions or you will take other actions that he may not like. This action should not be considered as a threat, but appropriate actions with cause.

Who is the kit manufacturer ? 

A easy forum search will yield the answer.

I think that I would forge ahead with the kit, how hard can it be??  I have been involved with building construction for too many years, believe me, it is not that difficult.  If you were to post a few pictures of what you have done and the parts left I am sure some of the talented guys here would be happy to help. 

As far as the manufacturer goes, whomever they are, I don't find their customer service  skills all that good. 

Hi Roger...

Sorry about your situation.  To be honest.....I would say you have been very patient and supportive with both your time and money.  The response is certainly not customer centered and for all practical purposes says that you are the one wrong and you will get the rest of the instructions whenever....???  Not even a "thanks for your purchase"...or...."sorry for the delay"...or..."because of the delay, here is something extra"....

Perhaps you could sell the kit to someone else and then purchase one from another manufacturer.  Since I am not sure which kit to which you refer, I will use Korber as an example.  Rich seems to be very supportive and as you may or may not know, one of our MA3R members was involved in writing instructions for Rich and I assure you they are very complete and accurate.

It is hard to believe that any manufacturer would release a model, especially an expensive model, without complete instructions.  In my opinion, you may be best off either asking for a refund or just sell the kit and replace it with a competitor's product.

Alan

I gather that the kit is an exclusive custom-made item with such a very limited production. So it will certainly be unique.

It may be that the producer ran into unexpected problems which have prevented him from completing the instructions in a timely manner. Family or health or financial problems, for all we know. Or maybe just burnout on a project that he regrets taking on in the first place. The small production run suggests that he may have built the kits more as a favor to fellow hobbyists, rather than to make money for such an obviously time-consuming custom building job. Perhaps others were pushing him to produce the kit and he bit off more than he could chew.

You're already deep into the construction of a [mostly plaster?] kit which would perhaps be impractical to remove intact. The producer was way overdue on delivery and instructions. He has probably already lost his reputation and lost hope for any future business because of his poor performance.

The best case is, maybe he will come through with the rest of the instructions. Worst case, you won't get anything else out of him. I suggest that your best bet is to try to be patient and encourage the guy to complete the instructions by making persistant but diplomatic inquiries. Assume that he may have had a tragedy in the family and make inquiries accordingly. He seems to expect some sympathy without explaining why.

Meanwhile, you might also post photos of your progress with the kit on this forum. Maybe others can make helpful suggestions about how to finish building it. Perhaps you can temporarily represent the structure as earthquake-damaged and undergoing repairs, or something creative like that. Try to build a story around it, even though it's not what you originally planned for your layout. Imagine a real-life building that had serious delays in construction because of unforseen problems like bad management or faulty engineering or a sinkhole or snow-collapsed roof or accident ...

"plaster roundhouse kit"

The original post on THIS thread didn't even give enough information to know to do that. I am all for helping fellow forum members, but if you're going to ask for help, Please at least give the bare minimum info on what your trouble is, DON'T expect the people that you are asking for help, to go searching for important information.

My Opinion of course, your opinion may differ,

Doug

I agree with Doug.  Tell us who the supplier is.  It may put some heat to his feat/feet.

.....

Dennis

Happy New Year everyone. I think the general conscience with all of you is for me to proceed without the instructions. Before I posted this, I thought that I might as well try it and see what would happen. But with all of you agreeing, it makes me want to meet this challenge. I did not mention the vendor as that was not my motive. I just needed encouragement to proceed with this roundhouse. I want to thank all of you for chiming in on this thread.

May 2013 be the best year for all of your trains. I will be attending the World's Greatest Hobby in St. Louis, hope to see you there or real soon at another train event.

Doug...both this post and the original post over on the scenery forum have clearly stated the problem asking members what they would do.  I'm not so sure it matters what kind of kit it is but more important is the situation.  I think Roger, at least at this point, is taking a higher road by not mentioning the manufacturer's name.  Early enough in this post we know it is a plaster roundhouse kit.....not too hard to figure out who this is....

Alan

Now that is something that is not seen to often on here.......................class. Happy New Year Roger.

Paul....they don't come any classier or better than Roger!!  He is a wonderful guy!

Alan

Alan Im sure you know It is not Rich (Korber),

If it was he would probubly  come to your house to help you finish it. LOL 

 Class A  Guy

Happy New Year !

Patrick....absolutely know that it is NOT Rich....first:  Roger's kit is a plaster roundhouse AND second:  Rich would not respond to Roger in such a way.  Rich would not have released a model in parts over several months (years) with incomplete instructions.... 

I think all kinds of things can happen to a manufacturer during the release of a new kit and we can sympathize but I know Roger very well and he would not be at this point without cause.  The response from the manufacturer to him is not....lets say...."customer centered".

Alan

Roger, have you consulted the Wizard?  I would check with him before doing anything rash.  I think the two of you should be able to build the kit.  And this should be a good discussion at breakfast.

Al

 Alan, I am not into logos or face books.

Al...were is the MA3R logo????  Let me help you get it posted...PLEASE??

Alan

In MY OPINION, some very pertinent information when asking for help is:

Manufacturer

what the finished kit will be

what material the kit is made of

At what stage in the construction the kit is currently at

What type of work is anticipated to finish the project

what the modlers skill level/experience are

An idea of what tools the modeler has available, might be helpful

Where the modeler is located, a fellow forum member may be close enough to help.

The more information given, the better the advice can be.

As far as who the MFR is, that is not to Shame or pressure the MFR, but many MFR are known to have quirks specific to them, such as in my HO days DPM (Design Preservation Models) were known for warped walls right out of the package, and often needed corner joints hand filed/fitted. DPM kits could be built into wonderful models, as shown by Howard Zane in particular, but they often required more attention to construction than a similar level kit from other MFRs.

 As to the reply from the MFR, yes it did seem a bit curt, BUT Roger only posted the reply, not the email that it responded to, I am sure that Roger was very Polite and respectful, but we have not read the messsage preceeding that reply.

 As far as "It not being to difficult to figure out who the MFR is", well some of you do more Craftsman style kits than others of us. To ME, and evidently some others, it was NOT all that evident who produced the kit, or even what the completed kit was meant to be.

 I searched Roger's activity from his profile page, and had to go quite a ways back to find any thread that gave any real information about this project.

I have never built any of Dennis's kits, but, I am familiar wiith his name, and had ALWAYS heard Positive remarks made about him and his products, so I was surprised to finally learn that this was one of his kits.

 Likewise, though Roger is not as familiar to me as Dennis is, I have heard nothing less than reputable about him, and his handling of this situtation follows that character. I have in no way intended anything to refelct on Roger in less than a respectful manner.

My point was with more information, fellow forum members can offer you better Help/Advice.

Doug

It's a nice kit. but from the time the first deadline was missed, it's been a case of my dog ate my homework, time after time. While it is a heady task to make this kit and package it and write the instructions and so on, if you're in the business of providing these products, there is an expectation that the supplier is a professional outfit and the excuse of "it's a lot of work" just doesn't cut it.

While the representation is "seventeen others are waiting patiently" word around the campfire is there is plenty of frustration among those seventeen with these endless delays.

If I recall correctly, this kit is in the $600.00 or so dollar range. Times 18 kits, that's about $11,000.00. Looking at the kit, and the amount of work it has taken to produce it to this point, I certainly wouldn't do all that work for $11,000.00, but once you make a commitment, you've got to follow through, no matter how painful.

Thomas Yorke might have some advice on how to handle a situation like this. 

Korber Models Rich would be bending over backwards to help a customer. Rich is an absolute pro.

Roger, I want to commend you on how you handled this situation. I sympathize with your   frustration. It would have been easy to go off on the maufacturer on the forum, but you asked for assistance in a class way. I don't post very often, but read the forum daily and have always enjoyed your posts. There is no doubt in my mind that the expertise on the forum will help you finish a tremendous looking kit. I look forward to seeing the finshed product in the months ahead and reading how you built the rest. For what its worth, this same manufacturer blasted Thomas Yorke for doing the same thing to him about 2 to 3 years ago. Good luck,

Bob

Threatened to file a complaint with the States Attorney over something like forty bucks on a delayed delivery. I remember it well.

Harry....I think in Roger's case, he ordered not only the kit but extra stalls.  The kit was around 600.00 like you said plus a 100.00 per stall.  If I remember, Roger invested in at least a 5 stall model. 

I believe Kevin (Principal Railrookie) is building a 7 stall unit which represents a $1000.00 investment plus if my memory serves me, he also invested in extra wall units to extend several of the stalls.  In Kevin's March 2012 update here on the forum, Dennis mentions that he was almost done with instructions, etc....????  Anyway, Kevin is doing a great job and perhaps will chime in here and help Roger out. 

Alan

Every kit I have ever bought came complete, with instructions, and ready to build. It seems to me that proper business practice would dictate that this should be the case across the board.

I can hear the screams from forum members now if MTH, Lionel, et al, had sent your order in bits and pieces without complete instructions.

I don't see why those of us who want to know who the mfr. is should be thought poorly about.  I just want to know so I can be aware when I am purchasing a kit, what I may be involved with.  I have built lots of kits from several mfrs. but I am not "in the know" about this situation.  If you don't want to broadcast the mfr./vendor name here, please send me an email.  My address is in my profile.  That would be better than guessing erroneously as is already happening.

Classy or not?  What's classy about keeping this a secret so more of your forum buddies can get screwed as you have?

.....

Dennis

Dennis, per your request, I have e-mailed you.

I received the email.  Thank you very much, Roger.

.....

Dennis

Hi Roger,

I am by no means an expert model builder, but I would be glad to help you with your RH.  I sent you an email, so please feel free to send me pics and questions. 

As far as the completion of the instructions, all can I can say is that I know Dennis is working on them.  He has sent me several versions to proof read and offer corrections and additions.  When I first met Dennis the mock up of his 3 stall scratchbuilt RH was sitting on his workbench.  I was blown away and was of many that pestered him to produce the kit.  I bought a 7 stall version with the extension and we agreed to build it as a test since we live relatively close to one another and he had not actually built the kit version yet.  I was grateful for the help and instruction and he wanted the experience of building it so he could provide first hand knowledge to customers that may need assistance.

He shipped everything to me to ensure his packaging would withstand the abuse dished out by UPS.  We spent over 100 hours in my train room building, photographing and taking notes over the course of several build sessions.  Over that time Dennis and I become friends.  I know he will finish the instructions and I know they will be done with the same attention to detail as the kit itself.  You have the kit, you know how many parts there are, so you can understand the enormity of this task. 

I have taken a break from my RH, not because I don't have the instructions, but because I want to get my track done so I can play with my toys!  I still have to install the roof and doors.  I purchased the optional swing doors.  I also want to install lights and smoke hoods, but I don't plan on tackling any of that until my track is done.

I have not been in this hobby long but I have learned that everything takes more time than you think it should.  I stopped imposing deadlines on myself when it comes to completion of any of this stuff, because I found I would only get aggravated.  My RH is not done, but I still enjoy it. Let me konw if I can help you out.

I think it's a miracle.  Thanks to this OGR Forum.

Today I received another 10 pages of instructions for this kit with an apology. I am very thankful for this forum and what it represents to us in this hobby. Thanks to everyone that responded here on the forum and also the many others that e-mailed me suggestions and encouragement.