Lionel 167 Woes

A 167 controller has a choke, rectifier disk and bypass resistor inside, along with a multicontact switch.

Since your whistle does start when the button is pushed part way, the rectifer is probably OK.

I would check the resistance winding and clean the contacts.

Here are the Lionel factory service manual pages on your controller:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=705

The whistle button does to things.  When partially pressed, it sends a higher voltage of dc to the track to engage the dc relay in the tender to start the whistle motor.  When the button is fully pressed, it sends a lower holding voltage of dc to keep the relay engaged.  It may be 5 volts dc partially pressed and then 1.5 volts fully pressed.  The engine will slow down when you press the whistle button because you are now running the whistle motor.  Typically you need to increase the transformer voltage to compensate.

Some later version 167s, had an extra circuit in them so it would release a few volts of ac back to the track so you did not have to increase you transformer power.  The problem could be the 167 or it could be the relay in your tender.  I actually have the 2224w tender as well.  That has a nice whistle motor in it.  I would clean and lube the armature in it to ensure it runs optimal.  That will help with the engine slowing down.

Inside the 167 is 4 contact bars.  Some have spacers between then.  When you push the button down, certain contacts are making connection to send the dc.  Open the controller up and ensure the contacts are clean.  The fact that the whistle starts tells me you are at least getting the initial starting voltage to engage the motor.  Try adding a lighted car on the track to see if it help.  I have seen the extra draw caused by the light helps.

Further research shows that the 167 was draining voltage just sitting there. Running the 736 with the 167 in the circuit at 16 volts on the transformer produced sluggish performance and slow speed. Removing the 167 yielded a higher rate of speed and faster acceleration. I did have the 167 wired correctly however, (transformer positive through the reverse side post, track positive through the whistle side post.) Pressing the whistle button drained the voltage to a very low level. I had a lighted caboose sitting on the track as well, and it was fading significantly. Trying the 167 a 2338 GP7, it would start the horn, but then as it was further pressed, the engine would slow to a crawl, and emit a strange noise, (which I can only describe as a mechanical chattering.) Opening up the 167 revealed nothing out of place and no broken wires. Now though, reassembling it, there is no power going through it. No track power when the 167 is in the circuit. Taking the back off and replacing it again does nothing to solve this. Any suggestions?

Zach

I would check for broken wires.  If the 167 has a circuit breaker in, I would check to ensure the ends are making connection.  Use the diagram posted in the above reply to trace the circuit.  If the 167 is dropping voltage to the track, then u may have a version that keeps power in reserve for when the whistle button is pressed.  If so, it should be reducing the voltage to the track by a few volts (2-3?).

quote:

Further research shows that the 167 was draining voltage just sitting there.

It is designed to drop the voltage slightly when no buttons are pressed.  That is the purpose of the choke.

I beleive the documents contained in the link I provided above explain how the 167 works,

Ok, after reading through the service manual, It may be the choke coil being burnt out (In the process of burning out?) Visual inspection of the coil revealed nothing out of the ordinary. I'll have to keep fiddling with it. I'll see about cleaning the motor on the 2224W as well this weekend, a little preventative maintenance never hurts.

Thanks everyone for the assistance.

Zach

If your choke coil was open (burnt out) then there would be no flow of electricity through the controller and your trains would not run.

If the coil was shorted, then there probably wouldn't be much voltage drop when the buttons were not pressed.

I would guess that one of the following is true:

• You need more load on the circuit: add some cars, or put some lights in parallel with the track.
• your resistor is bad
• you might have a 167S controller.

The 167S was designed for use with smoke bulb engines, and has a different (lower value) resistor. The Lionel write up says you can put some bulbs in the circult to make up for the missing smoke bulb (more than one or two, smoke bulbs draw considerable power) See this manual page for the write-up:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/...hi-tend/acc167c3.pdf