I attached the .stls if anyone's interested. They are very simple designs. I'd suggest printing them raft stylet to preserve the thickness. Use at your own risk!
If you need to change the 2.5mm motor screws I'd suggest getting a laptop repair assortment of Amazon. The kit I have has several different length 2.5mm wafer head screws (along with M2 and M3 ones).
Thanks Norm, I think these will be useful. 
@Norm Charbonneau Thank you kind sir
Any word from Lionel yet on the tender doghouse light wiring fix?
@Norm Charbonneau posted:<snip> I do commend Lionel for making a back-drivable worm gear drivetrain. I think the first one I remember was in the CCII ESE Hudson and I think the general idea was to remove as much friction and backlash as possible for better closed-loop response. <snip>
Norm's recollection on this point is correct. I very clearly recall a discussion with Todd Wagner about this. BTW, in retrospect the CCII ESE J3 is one of Lionel's better efforts in Modern Era NYC Hudsons with a relatively reasonable (but, admittedly not perfect) set of 18" aluminum passenger cars to go with.
For what it is worth.
Bob
@Bob Bubeck posted:Norm's recollection on this point is correct. I very clearly recall a discussion with Todd Wagner about this. BTW, in retrospect the CCII ESE J3 is one of Lionel's better efforts in Modern Era NYC Hudsons with a relatively reasonable (but, admittedly not perfect) set of 18" aluminum passenger cars to go with.
For what it is worth.
Bob
I’d drink to that Bob, …and that engine spawned a couple of desirable shrouded Hudsons that for the most part, they got pretty right,….Some small minor details that a true modeler could easily correct, and actually enjoy doing, ……
Pat
Is Pat's shim installation (back of motor so it inclines at a different angle the same as Norm's fix (the shims go in the same location?) or are these different fixes? It's hard for me to tell from the pictures. And, if we don't have a 3-d printer are we out of luck or is there another method?
Is it premature to ask if the shim fix on the L1 will be required on the I1 as well? I don't have the L1, though the dealers pictures keep calling me, but I do have the I1 on order.
It's a shame those of you with the L1 have to go through this, but if you don't wouldn't the gears eventually strip? Moreover, does opening and modifying a new engine void it's warranty?
@Paul Kallus posted:Is Pat's shim installation (back of motor so it inclines at a different angle the same as Norm's fix (the shims go in the same location?) or are these different fixes? It's hard for me to tell from the pictures. And, if we don't have a 3-d printer are we out of luck or is there another method?
Is it premature to ask if the shim fix on the L1 will be required on the I1 as well? I don't have the L1, though the dealers pictures keep calling me, but I do have the I1 on order.
It's a shame those of you with the L1 have to go through this, but if you don't wouldn't the gears eventually strip? I am reluctant to to criticize Lionel, is it appropriate for them to issue a recall and do this? Before I get lambasted for saying that, Lionel is not a small business, at the least they're a medium sized corporation. Moreover, does opening and modifying a new engine void its warranty?
Yes, essentially one and the same, Norm’s approach is more elegant in design than mine,…..Norm made precision fit 3D printed shims, ….I used basically washers that I shaved down and measured the thicknesses of to get it right ….
Pat
For a one-off fix, just take some styrene sheet of the correct thickness and cut out a shim.
I thought the problem was the worm gear being off center. Use of a shim implies the worm is not cut far back enough.
Pete
@Norton posted:I thought the problem was the worm gear being off center. Use of a shim implies the worm is not cut far back enough.
Pete
Correct, my reading is the worm isn't cut enough and when you reverse you run into the uncut section.
Norm's picture of his shim, looks like it's just moving the motor back out of the mount.
The longitudinal centering of the worm gear and the worm wheel was the main issue I believe. Basically, the worm ran out of thread and became a screw with all of a screw’s torque prevailing properties in a reverse stall scenario. Not something you want in what was intended to be a low friction drivetrain.
The motor and worm angle is ok. Word of warning, keep an eye on the gaffer’s tape used to secure the wires along the fireman’s side of the can motor shroud. Getting it wedged in the motor mount/gearbox cover can cause the gears to not mesh well. The motor angle isn’t so important, the gear mesh is set by the (perpendicular) centerline distance of the worm gear and wheel which is best set vertically in this setup.
Gear mesh seemed fine with the original factory shim. This is controlled vertically by the thickness of the gearbox cover.
Worm centering across the worm wheel laterally seemed fine. This is also controlled by the gearbox cover/motor mount.
The 3D printed shim was designed to not change the motor angle, which would affect the mesh. Trial and error yielded the correct thickness, I had the motor shimmed out 2mm at one point.
I hope to finish the 1369 vid soon.
I received my Cumberland Valley Wayfreight set today, and when I went to put the locomotive in forward, I received a motor stall error message. Definitely odd to see given everyone has been having the reverse problem, but I’m going to try and do a factory reset and see if the issue persists. I’ll attach the diagnostic signal video I took.
@Norm Charbonneau posted:The 3D printed shim was designed to not change the motor angle, which would affect the mesh. Trial and error yielded the correct thickness, I had the motor shimmed out 2mm at one point.
Norm, does it make sense to shim it out a bit more than 0.3mm, that's a pretty thin difference between a problem and smooth running. Any reason you can see where maybe 1.0 mm would be a problem? I just like to have a tiny bit more margin available.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Norm, does it make sense to shim it out a bit more than 0.3mm, that's a pretty thin difference between a problem and smooth running. Any reason you can see where maybe 1.0 mm would be a problem? I just like to have a tiny bit more margin available.
It’s gonna be trial & error, …I did some at .5mm, some at 1mm, …..just gotta see what’s going to work, ….beauty part of the back drive, you can try it before you buy it, …I also unplug the motor leads, and put a jumper harness on it and test it on DC power before I button it all up,…
Pat
I think I started out at 1mm, then went to 2mm before coming back the other way. Too far out and you risk disengagement in forward.
It was kinda wild how sensitive these were to set up properly. Makes me wonder how they would do this in production.
On the bench you can turn the flywheel manually while holding the drivers tight to simulate the lockup.
@Norm Charbonneau posted:I think I started out at 1mm, then went to 2mm before coming back the other way. Too far out and you risk disengagement in forward.
It was kinda wild how sensitive these were to set up properly. Makes me wonder how they would do this in production.
On the bench you can turn the flywheel manually while holding the drivers tight to simulate the lockup.
It is amazing that a couple of millimeters is the difference between the ends of the worm! Talk about screwing up a design! 
As for your question about production, it's quite obvious that they didn't set them up properly in production or we wouldn't be having this conversation! 
I appreciate you guys sharing the fixes, however I am not ashamed to admit, well, slightly embarrassed, that what you're discussing appears beyond than my admittingly average to below average skill set, given some health conditions that I don't want to get into. What are the remedies for blokes like me? Up a creek without a paddle? I will suggest the fix would make a great magazine article, though you guys seem very busy, and writing articles takes a good deal of time. Good thing we have a forum.
@Paul Kallus posted:I appreciate you guys sharing the fixes, however I am not ashamed to admit, well, slightly embarrassed, that what you're discussing appears beyond than my admittingly average to below average skill set, given some health conditions that I don't want to get into. What are the remedies for blokes like me? Up a creek without a paddle? I will suggest the fix would make a great magazine article, though you guys seem very busy, and writing articles takes a good deal of time. Good thing we have a forum.
Basically, we’re adding a washer to the bottom of the motor where it bolts to the motor mount… ….and now with Norm’s STL file, a mighty elegant washer at that!….😉
Pat
Isn't the real problem that they didn't cut the worm correctly?
The "shim fix" is just trying to use the threads that are cut toward the front that are cut all the way.
I'm wondering if the ones that "work" have the threads cut all the way.
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