Blackwater Canyon Line - July 6, 2024 - Town Planning and Scratchbuild

Mark Boyce posted:

I made some more progress.  I installed the front facia boards from old wood as can be seen.  Now the whole framework is rock solid.  I can't shake it or move any of it even a smidgen.  I extended the boards on the next side that will support the risers and roadbed.  Supported every 16 inches and on one side they should work.  I did not make the special cut for the back curve in the corner because it started raining, and I had to bring the saw and horses inside.

 

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To answer why I didn't just make a complete tabletop, I want to do as much wiring as possible standing up.  I will run the wires above the brackets that are on 16" centers and tie them in to the sides of the flat baseboards, so that after disconnecting the wiring between each module, the module will lift off the wall brackets with all wiring coming with the module.  It's hard to mock up, so we will wait until I get to that point.  I'm pleased with the progress.

Mother Nature and that "rain" thing getting in the way 

Great idea on the wiring format Mark.  Can't wait until the day I finally get to a round the room layout.  I get to stand constructing my ceiling layout, but my neck is still at a 45-degree angle.  Ugh.

Thank you everyone!  Yes sitting on my little roll around seat to put in the screws from underneath that hold the modules to the frame is enough under the layout work for me.   

I have had a lot of time to think this out.  I just can't seem to put my ideas on paper to show you ahead of time, so I'll do it with the mock ups.

Kevin, Yes my Ceiling Central Railroad was a literal pain in the neck!!  Putting it over the 6' 8" doors with a ceiling at 7' 6" high doesn't give much room to work.  That is why I never neatened it up.  Once it was running, I just left it.  

Mark, this is fantastic, great work, great progress.  Keep the pictures flowing. Stay healthy, stay safe, have fun working on the Blackwater Canyon Line... Amazing.

Keep up the good work, Mark - even a little a day and it'll be done in no time !

Mark, your doing a great job! See the slow and easy method sure makes life a little easier on the body! I wish I would have done more planning but its to late to go back and start over! LOL

Thank you Larry, Richie, Mike!!

All three of you gave the good advice to take things slow and good things will come.    Last evening I disconnected the wires to the Ceiling Central RR and removed the TIU and terminal block board from the wooden roll around cart I built two winters ago.  Some may recall that was intended to be a rollout section for a turnback loop, but became a cart holding all the boxed Christmas trains and my two sets of Western Maryland passenger cars when not in use.

Today, I moved the cart in under the family room layout build that is on hold until more of that room becomes available.  That may never happen, but that's okay.  I am happy to be working on this new plan in the 11 x 11 original train room.    It now gives me more working space since it does get a bit cramped moving 4-foot pieces of lumber around now that I have 30-inch deep shelves on two sides.  

I'll get some photographs up after I clean the room up a bit.  Right now I'm listening to my wife's piano playing since she is laid off.  I guess we are two old folks since she may never work again either.  

Since this is my topic, I will choose to post a photograph on what our innovative younger daughter is doing since both the coffee shop and music store she works at are closed.  She gives private piano and voice lessons to about 35 students ranging from 5 to early 60s.  She is now doing Skype music lessons from home with a number of students.  Word got around, and she was contacted by the Butler Eagle newspaper to be part of a story in their monthly local business special on how different people are being productive from home.  Now if her sister could find space in their house that isn't damp, we could get her piano out of our family room to make room for more important things like layout building!!  

Congrats to your daughter, that’s awesome.

That's great Mark. Very entrepreneurial.

Mark, good for your daughter and for the Butler Eagle. Your Daughter's [new] work is exactly the kind of positive-going-forward sort of thing that needs public exposure and discourse. 

The more I think about your "working-from-above" initiative the more I like the whole concept.  Either that or flip-up modules to facilitate underside development and maintenance.

Mark, that’s great, our children mean the world to us, congratulations on having a nice, intelligent, daughter. During these times, our families are very important to us, and you have a lot to be thankful for. Stay safe, stay healthy, have fun, and when the time allows,  enjoy working on your layout. Happy Railroading 

Mark, that's great stuff.  Kudos to your daughter and you.  I'm sure you had something to do with her attitude and success!!

Jerry

Mark that's great news! You and your wife should be very proud of her! You did a great job in raising your kids!

 Great idea Mark on the open grid bench work for the wiring.

  I did not do this lol

I don’t spend much time under the layout doing fancy wiring anymore those days are over unless I can stand up.  I just make sure of good terminations and that it’s secure.

 Looks like you will be running trains soon!

Be thankful your Daughter doesn’t play drums

Looking forward to more Progress!

Al

Wow, Mark,  you are certainly receiving quite a bit of well intentioned advice... Remember rule # 1.  "HAVE FUN"....!!  

You are absolutely right, Ted!  I appreciate everyone’s suggestions and advice!!  Thank you!

 I have been working on securing each module so nothing sags and so that when or if I remove them to move, the modules won’t twist.  It is a bit unorthodox, but everything is solid as a rock.  I’ll post some photographs when I take them.

I am enjoying the posts and the work everyone is doing during these weird times. I am trying lots of different things on my temp garage layout. Mark, my wife and I are both school teachers, I have been spending way to much time doing on line instruction. Some how I am going to incorporate trains in my lesson. Maybe I should start a new thread and ask for ideas. I do not want to a hijacker. Anyway I enjoy all you guys and gals on the website. 

Not hijacking at all, Catdaddy!  Thank you for posting!

My brother is a high school special education teacher and has  to come up with ‘creative‘ lessons for his emotional disturbed kids.  Your idea for trains in your lessons would fit the bill for creative.  He has one more year before he retires at 62, and will be ready to go.  As the older brother, I’ve been giving him things to consider.

Now I went off track.  I think it would be a good idea to start a topic asking for ideas.  There are other teachers here, and maybe some have already done something similar in class.

Your layout is really looking good, Mark. I can see many similarities in the design and construction of our respective layouts. It's my guess that you're getting to that stage where you can really see your ideas taking shape, which gives a little shot of extra enthusiasm.

Bruce, I agree with your perspective on the similarities of the design and construction of our two layouts.  In fact I was truck by your explanation to Carl 'Pingman' on your layout topic:

     So to finally answer, I think it qualifies as a shelf layout because of the shallow depth of the benchwork and the fact that it's braced to the wall with a           completely open floor below. It's also an around-the-room layout. I guess I'm building a hybrid.

Yes, I can see it taking shape, especially with the work I did yesterday that I haven't photographed yet.  I hope to be posting another update this weekend.

I completed the braces for about 8 feet on two walls.  I then had to come up with a way to mark the wood so I know where to put the risers for elevated track and roadbed for track at 0" elevation.  Making sure the track plan fits tight in the corner, I started cutting away the empty spaces on the track plan and marking edges about 3/8" or so from the edge of the track.  I then marked on the wood the elevations at every track joint and what track section would be between each two points.  I then laid out track over the plan with the exception of two pieces that will be shaped and cut from GarGraves flex track.  Here are some views.  Yes. It looks rough, but it will all b covered with scenery and a nice fascia, so I don't care what it looks like underneath.

Here is the rough layout for the rest of the wall.  Last evening, I marked the wood I want to cut to support the track on this section.  I didn't setup the sawhorses on the patio today because it was windy and snowy.  Instead I contemplated how to make the risers.  I think I will just measure and cut risers from many lengths of 2x4s I have available.  

The forecast is for more of the same weather tomorrow, so if I get time I will see what I can get done.

Mark, your plan is looking great and your doing a wonderful job at informing us of your plans and ideas! I like how things are looking so far and hope the weather changes for you soon! It was 68 here yesterday and the future weather looks even better!

Still doesn't mean I will get any train room time as there is still house work to do and with the lack of time do to the break in at the store I am  a little behind!

Keep up the great work and I will be fallowing when I can!

Looking good Mark. 👍

Coming along nicely Mark!

Looking good Mark. We had some snow flurries here on LI yesterday too. It was 60 degrees the day before.

Thank you, Mike, Pat, Lance, Bob!  Yes, it was 60 degrees here in Northwestern Pennsylvania on Wednesday.  Thursday was windy and the temperature dropped all day.  It's cold today, but may hit the 50s before the day is out.  Oh well, after 63 years, I should be used to the yo yo weather!  

Mike, yes indeed the break in consumed time you were going to work on the house.  It's always something.  I hope you get everything resolved at the store soon!!

Mark, you are following that good rule: plan twice, build once.  Looking good! 

I've done so many tweaks my decking looks like a jigsaw-puzzle. 

Mark, I thought I'd pass along something that I learned during the track-laying phase of my layout, which shares many similarities. You mentioned fitting the track tightly in the corners. If you plan to run any long locomotives or rolling stock (such as heavyweight passenger cars), make sure to allow for overhang. You'd be surprised at how far beyond the outside rail a loco's "cowcatcher" or the corner of a long passenger car extends when negotiating a curve, even those with a big radius. My outer curves are 096 (Fastrack), which has the built-in "road bed" that extends beyond the crossties, yet I still have to allow extra space to prevent my PRR heavyweights from bumping the wall at the curve exits. The only way to be certain is to run the biggest thing you plan to use on your layout and physically check the clearance. Don't forget to account for any scenery that might occupy your walls. 

Keep up the great work!

Mark, you’ve really been working on the railroad, and it looks good. As they say, “inch is a cinch “, a slow pace, doing the right things at the right time are essential for good running trains.  The foundation looks good, job well done. Thanks for posting your progress. Happy Railroading, Happy Easter.....

Thank you Lew, Bruce, Larry!!!

Bruce, Excellent observation for all of us!!  I meant that the edge of the track plan fits right into the corner.  We allowed about 3" clearance from the wall to the tangent tracks.  I am using 054 track for the outer loop and 042 for the inner.  On my original plan for another location in the house using a turnback loop all the room I had was 042, so I do not own or plan to buy anything that won't run on 042.  I do have an old scale GG1 which is a shelf queen.

So with the track edge 3" from the wall, your reminder was well taken to prove this out that I will have enough clearance!!    My longest cars happen to be a 7-car set of Western Maryland heavyweights.  Here are two of them.  The Masonite backdrop is just leaning against the wall, but at track level it is about 1 1/4" away from the wall.  It will be even closer once I secure it in place.  Actually I haven't done that yet because I want to see how the rear grade looks to position the backdrop laterally for the best effect.  Sorry for the shadows, but this is the best I can do.

It's 45 degrees out, so I had just come in from cutting the boards I had marked out the other day.  I'm going to mow a little grass I couldn't get at with the riding mower.  We will see how my two goofy legs do.  Mike G. I can quit any time if it's too tough.   I did bring my dad's self propelled mower back home before the knee replacement and left my old hand mower at his house when we sold it. 

Maybe I'll have time to work on the layout later.  

Mark, your progress is wonderful, looks like you have thought of everything! I hope the weather gets warmer there soon for you, I seen on the news last night that nasty weather was heading that way from the south! I hope you fair well with it, I guess its a good thing you go the lawn mowed yesterday!

As for the store, everything is back up and running, the robber did more money in damage then the product he stole. Had to get all the locks changed and still waiting for the window repair company to get out and repair the broken window.

Please take care and be safe! Happy railroading!

P.S. Happy Easter!

Mark,

Great work!!

Congratulations !

Thank you Mike and Leandro!!

Mike, Yes we have had a little bit of everything the last few days.  Wind, calm, warm, cold, rain, snow, hail, sun, even tornadoes.  No injuries as I have heard.

Last evening I put some roadbed and risers in place for the most critical point on the layout.  The place where the two levels cross over each other.  I built up the lower layer with a section of 3/8" Homasote, cork roadbed, then track which is my normal method.  This is just a mockup, no glue or screws.  With the screws I have, they are not in contact with the wooden roadbed, so I think I get less reverberation.  I like to listen to the sound systems I paid for in these engines and the click clack of the wheels going over the rail joints just like I remember on the prototype before welded rail.  I use beveled cork because I like to replicate the built up ballast bed of the prototype. 

In the case of this one spot, all of that takes up over an inch of my 6 inches track separation.  I placed my highest freight car on the track, and see I have 1/4" clearance.  I do not like this car because it represents a car more modern than everything else I have.  My tallest steam engines are a little less high than this car.  This crossover will be hidden from view by hills and buildings.  Also, the hidden area will only be about a foot long.  I would like to have more clearance, but I would rather not make the 3.7% grade any steeper.  That 3.7% grade does replicate the prototype Blackwater Canyon/Black Fork Grade in West Virginia.  

My question is does anyone see a problem with this amount of clearance?  I taper down my Homasote and/or cork in this area.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  

Thank you and have a Blessed Easter!!

Haha.  Hey, Mark, people tend to think that my double-tracked overhead layout has consists that are gonna scrape each other as they pass in opposite directions.  An inch would be better, but if that's your tallest car/engine, you're good to go. 

I've been following, but don't have much to contribute to your build.  Nice work, looking good.  Keep testing, keep building, keep posting!

Jerry

It's tight but should be OK.  I wish I made my second level a 1/2" higher. I forgot to include the track height and cork when I built mine. What's going to support the track on the upper level?
I'm sure there were no husky-stacks in the era you are modeling.

Bob

Jerry, Bob, Thank you!  That's as tall a car as I can imagine.

Bob, I plan to use 1/2" or 5/8" board with Homasote and cork supporting the upper track just like the lower track.  I'll have sections of 2x4 as seen in the photographs cut to the appropriate lengths supporting it at appropriate intervals.  When I get over to the other side of the layout where the front track will be higher than the rear one, I have thought of some trestles to see through to the back, but it may not be necessary since the tracks are high but still well below eye level.

Mark, as long as you are sure you will never want a taller car then IMO a ¼" miss is as good as a mile. That car can't grow and those wood risers can't shrink so I don't see a problem. For just that short distance you could use taller risers and a piece of steel plate to gain clearance. Or you could use taller risers and no Homosote/cork roadbed for just that short distance with the decking having more clearance underneath and the track resting directly on the decking, a sort of poor-man's bridge if you will.

Thank you, Lew!!  The only thing I could think of that may be taller would be a wrecking crane.  But if the prototype had any that were too tall, they would just go around the other way.    I did think of a piece of metal plate.  Poor man's bridge would fit me just fine.  I have lots of poor man's stuff around here!  

Nice work all around Mark! Well thought out too. That second level is really going up fast. Your daughter is very creative. My wife is a teacher and I think they all need to be creative at this time. Thanks for the updates.

Andy

Mark

Nice work.  I would think I would add some clearance to that overhead.  I have found too many times the hard way that just enough is never enough.