@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Power panel taking shape.  All the track drops will come here to be allocated to the four TIU channels.  Each TIU channel is powered by a Lionel PH180 transformer.  The Legacy #990 is also here along with the SER2 and both Lionel and MTH WiFi adapters.  No problem with putting the CAB2 into the #990, I never do that!  It gets the remote too hot sitting in the #990, so I charge them in the separate charging base, that works much better. Besides, I want the CAB2 where it's easier access.

The MTH WiFi and the Legacy #990 will be getting external antennas for better performance, so I'm not worried about clearances here.

In case someone wonders, the manual switch controls and the turntable controls will be going to a separate panel.  That panel will also have the 12VAC supply for the DZ-2500 switch machines.

The person wondering is me!  This is where I start stalking you.  I'm getting ready to build my first control panel so I'll be on this thread like a dog chewing on your ankle.

and, Yes... the  990 remote gets to darned HOT!

Dennis, this is just a simple power panel, the interesting design will be trying to make a good looking panel for all the switches and turntable, that will stretch my limits as far as artistic ability!

John,  Yeah... that whole design thing.  I kind of see it in my head but getting it to work and *fit* into a nicely wrapped up package is stressing what few neural neurons I have left.

Gunrunner John, that’s a very nice panel and well organized, I see one LCS wifi component  can’t quite make out the other LIONEL device. I am really interested in how your DZ2500 switch machines work out. I used the DZ1000’s via TMCC ASC’S, and the push button controller near the turnouts and they snap really good letting me know they’ve done their job. Can’t say that about the Atlas switch machines, I’ve also found crawling under the layout (at age 76) to be great exercise and a good way to stay in shape. I’m going to make a seat for under my layout like yours, great idea. Keep us informed as you move forward towards wiring. This is a fun to read thread. Happy Railroading Everyone

John, you are moving right along, at the rate your going your going to be giving Larry's layout for a run for its money! I know I dont comment a lot but I do try to do my best to keep up to speed how things are going! I truly respect your willing to share your skills with others! Thanks!

@leapinlarry posted:

Gunrunner John, that’s a very nice panel and well organized, I see one LCS wifi component  can’t quite make out the other LIONEL device. I am really interested in how your DZ2500 switch machines work out. I used the DZ1000’s via TMCC ASC’S, and the push button controller near the turnouts and they snap really good letting me know they’ve done their job. Can’t say that about the Atlas switch machines, I’ve also found crawling under the layout (at age 76) to be great exercise and a good way to stay in shape. I’m going to make a seat for under my layout like yours, great idea. Keep us informed as you move forward towards wiring. This is a fun to read thread. Happy Railroading Everyone

Larry, I'll be interested in seeing how the DZ-2500's work out as well!  I'm also use the CSM2 breakout boards to make the wiring easier.

The two LCS components are the SER2 and the WiFi unit.  Crawling under is certainly more exercise than I need, but I'm getting it anyway!

My only disappointment with the power panel was I thought the PH180's mounted the other orientation and the cords would just go over the top.  Imagine my surprise when it was all laid out and I saw the keyhole was the other way!   So I'll just have to run the cords up along the transformers, not as neat, but that's the way things happen now and then.

Ran the power from the tracks on the lift-bridge to the stationary leg through a loop of wire that allows bridge movement.  This will tie into the power panel when that wiring is done.  Also started installing the CSM2 breakout boards under the lift-bridge, four in place, twenty two to go!

I think I need to find a cheap source of more 1/2" spacers for #4 screws.

John, Clearly I need to build more, Sleep less.. (Times a ticking, its already trash day. AGAIN)

Great updates, it take TIME to share, sharing inspires! thank you

Well, I won't post pictures of all the little boards, today I'm going to see if I can get a bunch more in and ready for the runs to the panel.  I did so a little more work on the power panel, I had to move the TIU, I realized that even with an external antenna I didn't allow enough clearance for the MTH WiFi.  I'm hoping the benchwork doesn't collapse under the weight of all the wire going under there!

John,  I used 8 rolls of 500 ft 16 ga and 6 rolls of 22 ga wire when I did my layout. When it comes down, there is going to be a ton of it in a bucket, the benchwork is a series of 3x4, 3x5, 2x5 and 3x6 tables screwed in place,  I used a creeper in most spots and shudder thinking about having to do it ever again.

Gee, I hope I don't need another mile of wire to finish wiring this thing!   My 18ga drops are all in I believe, and I only used around 600 feet of 18ga wire.  I have a couple thousand feet of #14 on hand, and I sure hope that does the trick for the bus runs!

John,

I am sure your more efficient in placing your runs, I started with 5 power blocks, and ran the furthest in a group, then the closer ones, then the 27 switches and so on. I did power districts in each island and spidered the drops from the power strips. Then the 4.5 volt runs for picaxe and low voltage items.

If I did it again, I would make bigger central power strips instead of adding when I needed more. I also wish I had allowed for expansion of my elevated lines. Enthusiasm and crossed fingers don't always get a well thought out system.

I am trying to convince the wife to consolidate on one piece of property so I am not 30 minutes to my shop when work on a car, wood project, welding or one of the RV's. I also want to get closer than 80 miles to the grandkids.

Been behind on the forum (what a drag), CONGRADULATIONS on your first run and Video. Have tons of snow to move now.

Redball342

Gathering up more CSM2 DZ breakout boards to mount for the DZ-2500's, testing how limber my body is!

John. What is the purpose of the CSM2 DZ Breakout Boards. How are they utilized? Who makes them? I am sorry if you already covered this.

Forest, they basically made to make wiring the switches a little neater.  They also have the non-derailing connections with the resistors and diodes to protect the DZ-2500 from voltage spikes on the non-derailing inputs.  The skinny little DZ-2500 wires go into the spring loaded green connector, and then you can wire to the pushbutton, the non-derailing connections, and the power, ground, switch position status, and serial data all to the convenient terminal blocks.  They were made as a companion to the CSM2 LCS switch position indicator box.

LCS CSM2 DZ-2500 Breakout Board

I have the breakout boards too.  They do help the installation and have that extra protection but they need to be mounted close to the switch.

My initial thought when I bought them was to have the breakout boards next to the edge of the layout for easy access.  I soldered long wires to the switch for the non-derailing function and also on the longer switches to the leads for switching track power through the relay.   I also solder extensions to the six wires off of the switch motor.  All these extended wires went to a BB on the edge of the layout about 6' away.

Everything worked except the non-derailing function.  After several back and forth emails to folks who designed the different boards it turns out the extra length wire was causing too much resistance(?).  Went back to climbing under the table and putting the breakout boards next to its switch and things work as advertised.

I still have the initial installation with all wires going from two switches (crossover) to one breakout board on the layout's edge.  The non-derailing wires are attached directly to the spring loaded green connector with the wires from the switch motor, bypassing the voltage spike protection circuit.  It works great but now I am not getting the full benefit of this board.  I may redo this sometime in the future.

I'm mounting them next to the switch, although a couple of the switches have extensions on the DZ-2500 wires because of where the fall, no place to put the board.  However, the non-derailing rails will be as close as if it were right under the switch machine.  Got half of them in, a dozen more to go.

John, Since you have a turn table, you need to have proper atmosphere to go with it. Here is a real life suggestion. I hope you like Alcos! This is Conway Engine terminal in 1978.

Edit to make the link easy to find: (Click here!)

Chris

LVHR

Chris, I see no picture.

John, Click on "Here" in my post above. It's a link.

Chris

LVHR

Don't think I have room for that, I'll have to go a little smaller.   The space for mine didn't lend itself to a roundhouse, although that would have been really cool to have.  I was happy I was able to stuff it into the plan.

Chris, Ah yes, the early Conrail years!  You were liable to see anything rolling down the rails! 

John.....

Just watched your "initial run" again ( for the 4th time). It is very exciting and I am looking forward to more progress.

Peter

Yeah, I loved the initial run video. Shared with a friend of mine(after showing her a giant finished layout video of someone else), she liked both. It's only a matter of time before trains are chuffing away(steam) and cars chugging behind. I got to get my behind moving with what I was working on, finished clearing the back bedroom, that stuff. Of course with the snow coming down, leaves me with very little options for outside and may keep me from going out.

Got some more wiring done, I have about 90% of all the track power pulled to the power panel location.  I have to arrange things there and neaten up the wires and route them to the terminal strips.  I also added a second panel for more power/switching components, it became clear that one panel wasn't going to get it done.  The first panel is full, and I have SC-2's, the CSM2 boxes, several control relay boxes, etc.  So, the power empire expands.

I have the sidings to wire and one set of power drops that we somehow skipped when wiring the rest of this section, it doesn't seem you could miss those wires hanging there!

Of course, all the small wires hanging around are the wires from a sea of DZ-2500 switch machines, the next part of the wiring adventure.

GRJ,

All of your PH 180's are wired directly to the track using "Molex pigtails" - no transformer handles?

Dennis

They'll be going through the TIU, but yes, no transformer handles.  I'll be able to run conventional in the event I desire by using the DCS remote and one of the two variable voltage channels of the TIU.

Looks good, John. Slow and sure wins the race.

John, Really liked your first run video. Everything looks great. I saw in the video spools of wire. Where did you purchase your wire from.  What size for buss and for drops.  What lengths did you buy.  All stranded or any solid.  I've got to start stocking up.   Thanks,  Tom

Thanks Tom, it was kinda' neat to see something actually running the rails.  Soon I'll be doing a powered run and testing DCS and Legacy to see if I powered everything.  As with anything, I was looking closely at my troublesome double-slip switches and notices I missed some power drops, they look like a porcupine when you get done wiring them!  A couple of the center rails aren't in the power wiring, so that has to be fixed.  I'm also going around and tweaking the switch machines and springs, I noticed one had the wrong springs, and one had a stretched spring, so I am making the rounds to make sure everything at least looks OK initially.

I bought my wire at Home Depot, it's #14 THHN wire in 500 foot spools.  The power drops are #18 wire and I'm using the lever nuts to connect power, it makes it easy to add and subtract stuff you missed or wired wrong.   I use stranded wire, solid #14 is a royal PITA to work with under the layout, and there's absolutely no reason to do so.  The only solid wire I've used so far is a loop around the turntable whisker tracks for the commons, it seemed easier to just run an uninsulated loop and connect them all to it.

Big job ahead after the power is done, getting all the switch wiring run back, each of the 25 switch machines will have a home run of CAT5 to a common staging point.

Ran some more power wires, found out I forgot to power one rail of a double-slip switch, so added that into the network.  I also wired my two lead tracks for the future freight yard along the back wall, they'll be used for short sidings as well.  With that in mind, I decided they needed switched power with indicators, so a new control appeared on the fascia.   Different colored lights for power so I know at a glance which track is powered up.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Ran some more power wires, found out I forgot to power one rail of a double-slip switch, so added that into the network.  I also wired my two lead tracks for the future freight yard along the back wall, they'll be used for short sidings as well.  With that in mind, I decided they needed switched power with indicators, so a new control appeared on the fascia.   Different colored lights for power so I know at a glance which track is powered up.

Is that switch panel recessed into your facia? If so could you show a better view of it.    Really like the power indicator lights as well.  

Yep, I use a 1/16" fiberglass panel behind the fascia layers, it recesses it about half an inch.  The trim is a computer desk wire pass-through grommet, I bought a bag of them.  Initially, I was only going to use it for the two switches for the lift-bridge, but then I thought it was a pretty neat way to add a few readily accessible switches, so my maintenance track in the workshop and now this yard has them as well.  I'll probably add a couple more before I'm through.

Workshop maintenance track power.

Lift-Bridge Control (UP/DOWN) Two Locations

Freight Yard Lead Tracks (2 tracks, individually powered)

Still chipping away.  Got all the bus runs onto the terminal strips, the long outlet strips came in and are mounted.  I'm doing a radio control of the four power districts, this allows me to reset the transformers without going inside the lift-bridge. I can use my little remote to cycle power and reset the breaker.  I also ran the front freight sidings over to the panel, that's one of the longer wires in the layout, had to go around the hole.   Still have to wrap up the wires a little neater coming down, but that's coming when I complete the wiring, more to come.

One more run to deal with, my three track hidden yard.  Those three tracks will have relay control to energize the tracks individually to allow me to run just control wires to the actual controls and not have to pipe the power all around the layout.

02/12/2021 - FULL POWER RUN!

It has happened!  I powered all the loops and have four engines running!  MTH DCS and Lionel TMCC/Legacy and a LC+ Camelback all running.  I am a happy camper.

I'm also pleased to report that the Perpetual Barking DCS Watchdog Generator works great!  With that connected at the TIU, switching on a siding has the MTH DCS locomotives keeping their yap shut until I ask them to wake up!

I do believe it's a train layout now!

Congratulations. Enjoy it for many years to come.

Tom

Looks great, John!  Congratulations!

Flip the switches, push the buttons...go! Such a great feeling when it works.

Congrats!

Very cool John, add my congratulations!