No Drawbar Signal on Century Club II ESE Hudson

@Mallet1218 posted:

Lionel Empire State Express Hudson, product number 6-38000.

Soooooo... Would a bad board, in particular the "radio board," part no. cs-691R2LCC08-p be the most likely culprit of the issue here?

The engine itself seems to be functioning fine, at least in TMCC mode.

Then NO it's probably not the "radio board" R2LC. I can say that with confidence because the radio board is the heart and logic of the engine. Understand that microprocessor is what makes any and all decisions in the engine. Given you said it runs fine.

That said, one thing you SHOULD DO is download and read the manual for your engine, and properly reset the engine "feature" code because that could be one reason for it not working!!!

Simply go to Lionel support, enter your product number- that's why we ask for it in posts- and bam- we have the listing for your engine https://www.lionelsupport.com/...ss-Hudson-4-6-4-5429

Then download the PDF manual https://www.lionelsupport.com/...ents/73-8000-250.pdf

Page 25

TrainMaster Command Control operations
Reprogramming your locomotive to restore features
If your locomotive is unresponsive to your commands in the TrainMaster Command Control
environment, we recommend that you follow this procedure to reset your locomotive. All
factory default settings will be restored when you reprogram the locomotive.
1. Slide the Command reverse unit switch to the PROG position.
2. Plug in and connect your Command Base.
3. Place your locomotive on the track, then power up the track.
4. Press ENG and enter the locomotive’s ID#.
5. Press SET.
6. Press ENG and enter the locomotive’s ID# again.
7. Press AUX1.
8. Enter 74 for this particular locomotive.
9. Turn off track power and wait ten seconds.
10. Slide the Command reverse unit switch back to the RUN position.
At this point, your locomotive has been reset. Restore power to the track and operate the
locomotive as usual. Be sure to use the ID# entered in Step 4.

Again, this additional step of setting the correct feature code type is CRITICAL for many systems to work properly, including some wireless drawbar systems- especially a 2 digit code like 74.

This is the kind of thing to know for any and all of your TMCC engines.

Continuity is one thing, but also having continuity to ground on a wire that ain’t supposed to be is another, …..you can have a chafed wire grounding out and killing the IR signal to the tender. I’d start by ringing the 3 wires again, this time, only one ( the black one ) should ring to ground. ….I believe brown is your data, and the brown/red is your 5V …..

also look closely at the pins on the board side, I had that very engine once in the shop with a cold solder joint at the data pin, ….

if you have full control of the locomotive, then the stream should not be lost….I wouldn’t suspect a radio board just yet,…..

I think you’re on the right path, you just need to dig a little deeper……

im sure others will have more to say too….

Pat

Thanks, Vernon!

I appreciate the advice. That being written, a reset following the procedure you posted is actually the first thing I did before looking at the engine more closely. I actually did it twice just in case ( I should have mentioned that in my original post). Alas, no luck.

There is a chance its just the three wire tether. If the engine moves on command then the R2LC is likely OK. Serial data is there. On a three wire tether if there is a red or black with red stripe it carries 5v DC. Violet stripe is serial data, black is common. Make sure 5v is going to the red wire. If so maybe the wires are broken in the LED housing. Remove the screws that hold it to the drawbar to make sure one hasn’t broken off.

Pete

Yes, agree with Vern 100% …..do a reprogram absolutely first, and eliminate that as a culprit!….

Pat

@Mallet1218 posted:

I appreciate the advice. That being written, a reset following the procedure you posted is actually the first thing I did before looking at the engine more closely. I actually did it twice just in case ( I should have mentioned that in my original post). Alas, no luck.

Fair enough, many people just are not aware of this. Yes, good to put it in your post.

Hoping this is still a simple fix.

Thanks, y'all.

I think I will try the reset procedure again, juuuuuust in case.

Pat, that's an excellent point about the possible ground issue... Didn't think about that, and it would be relatively easy to test for.

I eyeballed some of those solder joints on the boards, but didn't test them. I'll hopefully talk to Trainz tomorrow and see what they want me to do. If they want to try and repair it first, I'll probably just let them take a swing, as I can understand if they don't want me digging too deep into it if I might be sending it back, anyway. If they are cool with me checking it out, though, I'll pull the boards and check for bad joints. I guess that's a distinct possibility considering the engine is, what, 17 years old, now? Scary.

I also appreciate the info about the boards and how they function. A lot of that is still mysterious to me, lol.

@Mallet1218 posted:

I guess that's a distinct possibility considering the engine is, what, 17 years old, now? Scary.

Meh, no worries. I have several Tmcc engines that are at or near 20 years old.

They've worked perfect since the day they came out of the box. I suspect they may outlast much of the newer stuff.

Well, just a quick update, and otherwise I'm calling it quits for the night.

Checked to make sure there was no continuity going on between the power and serial data wires of the tether and the chassis, and according to my meter, there is none. The ground wire, on the other hand, appears to be grounding.

I also checked voltage on the tether... There is over 5V DC on one wire, 3.5V DC on another, and the ground has none. That would lead me to wonder if the IR bulb is bad. Checked again with my phone camera, and no purple/blue halo to be found.

Here's an odd thing, though. I realized that in TMCC mode the engine will respond to the remote whether I've put the engine code in or not. Did the reset procedure again just in case, but same results. Very strange.

Happy New Year, Everyone!

Hope nobody minds if I revive this thread. I always hate when I see someone post a problem that is relevant to my search, only to find that a solution was either never found or posted.

I sent the engine back to trainz.com for repair; they covered shipping and everything. They had it a couple of weeks (no big deal, I'm sure the holidays held things up a bit) and I got it back yesterday. It runs GREAT now. The tech notes included with it said, "Customer was on the right track.  Found all 3 wires to the IR transmitter were good with no shorts... I replaced the IR transmitter with a new one and everything now works." I assume by "IR transmitter" the tech means the infra-red bulb the three wires lead into, correct? Not sure how common that failure is, but there you go! Could have fixed myself it for $5 and some time, but no point bothering since Trainz stood behind it.

Slightly off topic, but I have had great experience dealing with them both through Ebay and, now, from buying directly off their website. I occasionally see some less than stellar reviews of them, but if you buy their items at the right price with the realistic understanding that you are often buying used, intricate models that have some age on them and may have issues, they are a great source. My experience has been that if you have a problem, their customer service is very receptive and they will take care of it, either through replacement, repair, or a refund. Very pleased with this purchase; hopefully I'll get some lengthy use out of it!

Hopefully the above helps if someone ever has a similar issue.

A digital camera can determine if the IR transmitter is working.  With the loco on the track and powered up without the tender, aim the camera at the drawbar.  If the IR transmitter is working, you should see a white light in the viewfinder.  Taught this to us  in the Lionel service class.  
If you have an IR signal from the loco, check the wiring in the receiver in the tender.