PS3 upgrade information.

Thanks Marty! & Mike!

Thanks Marty, a well thought out product range, will make upgrades a breeze.

One thing I did not touch on is you can replace any bad PS2 3 volt boards when needed with the upgrade board set and your locomotive will now be PS3.  This is not just for 5 volt replacement.  Just order the AE-1003v36 top adapter board plug it into the bottom board and you are good to go.  

It's been a long wait but this is indeed great news!

Thanks Marty

Marty, do the new Proto 3 boards also have to have the flash codes put into them for pantograph operation too?

That is the one that is not available yet.  You will see it.  The board will be flashed for your operation when ordering.  

Marty, which of the above are available to the hoi polloi and which are only available to those who get their mail with an MTH tech?

Thanks Marty. I have two blown PS2 (5V) steam locomotives I've been dying to get back into operation. Any word on when the steam conversion sets will be out? On the 5V steam, there's the MUX board issue to deal with.

Hello. I have a question concerning the speaker situation. Does the speaker (8 OHM ) in a 5 volt PS2 system need to be replaced in the PS3 upgrade as it did in the 3 volt PS2 upgrade with a 4 OHM speaker?

Does the speaker (8 OHM ) in a 5 volt PS2 system need to be replaced in the PS3 upgrade as it did in the 3 volt PS2 upgrade with a 4 OHM speaker?

Yes, if you want to preserve the engine's loudness. You can leave an 8 ohm speaker instead of the 4 ohm if you can live with reduced volume.

 

The reverse, however, is not true.

The PS32 boards will be available to the tech guys.  The upgrade kits can be purchased by everyone.  Matt, the boards you want are available now.  Total plug and play.  Pull the 4 pin, 5 pin, 7 pin, 8 pin, and 12 pin off your blown 5 volt board and plug them into the replacement board.  Good to go.  You do not have to do anything with the Mux.  Just plug in the board.  All existing wire stays in place.

Great news Marty, thank you. 

Marty, if someone wanted to upgrade a non MTH engine to DCS would they use the PS1 upgrade kit or will there be another kit with additional components like the older PS2 kits?

It sounds like all of the kits above reuse some of the components the engines come with.

 

Pete

Norton, "PS1" is the pre-DCS sound system.  When I upgraded my non-MTH locos to PS2, I gutted all the wiring except for the wires from the rollers.

Marty, could someone upgrade a proto 1 to proto 3 using the upgrade kit or aren't the necessary wires included? Also, is there a projected MRSP? Thanks
Nickstrains

RJR, I understand that. What I am asking is will this kit contain all the connectors, lights, couplers, tethers, etc that used to be included in the PS 2 upgrade kits or is it a scaled down kit that reuses those components and only intended for MTH PS1 engines.

 

Pete

Pete, I'm not Ralph.  Not having seen the PS3 kits, I won't venture an answer.  But, the PS2 upgrade kits did not include a volume pot (re-used the PS1 pot or you could use alternatives), and included a standard gap tach reader which might or might not have the proper gap for your particular loco.

 

RJR

Pete, the PS3 kit will have every item the PS2 kit had.  The PS3 kit will be less the battery and related wiring.  The PS3 upgrade I did was a PS2 kit with the PS2 board swapped out for a PS3.  Everything will be present to do whatever locomotive you want.  When Mike first came out with the PS2 upgrade kit, it was intended to do PS1 locomotives.  It did not take long before the guys were doing almost anything that ran on rails.

 

I have done 148 PS2 upgrades and 2 PS3 upgrades.  I  have done Weaver, 3rd Rail, Atlas, and Williams.  I am happy the guys will get the PS3 kits but more happy that all of us with PS2 5 volt boards will have a plug and play option to make those locomotives PS3.  

 

I know MTH bashers are lurking but I want to say I know how much energy MTH has put into this program and being an operator I am thankful to MTH and the great people at MTH R&D.

Apologies, RJR. Thank you Marty for the clarification. I am hoping MTH brings these kits to York.

 

Pete

No problem, Pete.  I've been called worse---much worse!

 

Marty, problem is, as I understand it, that the P&P to upgrade 5-volt to PS3 will not be made available directly to the public.  Have you been able to check whether a P&P 5 to PS3 board will fit inside a steam loco, where the 5-volt board is located in the loco/

At this point, as stated above, the only change to the PS-2 Steam Upgrade kit, is they remove the PS-2 board, battery, battery harness and heatsink kit and replace it with the PS-32 board, and heatsink kit.

 

Diesel could be the same, but they have not released it yet.  I think Diesel upgrade harness are the hold up.

 

As far as fitting they are similar other than connector location and height as compared to the PS-2 board.   There are some small locomotives where speaker is in the frame not in the fuel tank, or short tenders where the fit may be interesting.

 

As an example I am doing a repair to a 5V FF electric.  The shell is not tall and the speaker is inside the engine.  Despite a very long chassis, the room to place a 3V board is tight, and it looks like I need to mimic the upside down mounting.  With the 12pin connector elevated over the speaker edge.  Not sure if the PS-32 to will fit.  To be continued, and I will post pictures.  But it will work for much of the conversions and repairs, and it also can work with the PS-2 slave boards.  Actually has a 2 pin connector that is used for the motor signals with better output.   G

per Marty, "I know MTH bashers are lurking but I want to say I know how much energy MTH has put into this program and being an operator I am thankful to MTH and the great people at MTH R&D."

 

Amen, Marty! MTH guys are true model railroad genius's

Dave G.

nice Job MTH GREAT Design, Marty excellent update for ps3 boards and kits, do you know what the price for the kits steam ps3 upgrade?

Also will they be bring any ps3 kits to York Pa.

Alan

What is the material and labor cost to repair a PS2 5-Volt to PS-32 in a steam locomotive?

Bobby, every guy who does upgrades charges about the same.  The cost of the new upgrade kits will be about $25.00 more than the PS2 kit.  

Thanks for all this information Marty. I too am grateful for MTH 's hard work in making these kits available.

 

My question is will there be a DCS/DCC switch included in the kit or does one have to purchase that separately? As we all know there wasn't a DCS/DCC switch in the previous PS2 upgrade kit.

 

I know this is obvious but I feel it needs to be mentioned. I would be careful when replacing a blown board and reusing all the existing PS2 wiring, lamps, smoke unit,etc because if that original board blew on it's own you're OK but if there was some kind of short circuit that took out the original board and the short is not repaired you most likely will blow up the new board.

 

 

There is a jumper connection, so you could easily add your own switch or just use the jumper.  G

 

Here is a picture comparison on a MTH Premier FF-2.  PS-2 5V to PS-2 3V to PS-32. 

 

The PS-2 5 and 3V had a variety of ways to be mounted.  The PS-32 will have less, so some fits will be tougher as I mentioned in an earlier post.

 

More flexibility with sound files though and the latest flash code has the stm/diesel/electric/articulate and Quillable Whistle file.  Trolley and electric pantographs will require a separate flash, as will a few other unique engines I believe.

 

G

Thank you GGG. I assume the instructions will show where the jumper is and how to set it for either DCS or DCC.

Just pull this jumper of the top board and you are in DCC.  Thank you MTH.

 

 

George, I see you have the 16 ohm speaker in place.  I have two of those box cabs and plan to do them up and slave the second unit.  I am old as I remember those screaming by in Pennsylvania many life times ago.

Marty, I only remember the GG-1s...  This was for a customer that the 5V failed.  The cab is pretty short so I think there might be an issue with the PS-32 fitting, even on the diesel bracket.  Unless you go with a smaller or flat speaker.  Here is the final with a PS-2 3V upside down.  That fit nicely, but you can see the top of board is at the fly wheel height. and just enough room left for the truck harness to swivel, with the 12 pin just above the speaker edge.

 

This was the FF-2. Looks like MTH only made 2 variations of this.  Like a Y1 but with passenger effect.

 

It was neat with PSA "arriving in Philly, Villanova, off to Paoli".  Brings back memories.  G

Marty, is there going to be an option (other than what we do now) to have direct connections to LED's for upgrades?  For upgrades, I normally dispense with the bulbs and use LEDs anyway, it would be nice if that were PnP.

 

I have not heard any more on that John.  My friend Locolawyer is a huge LED headlight guy.  I just cut the incandescent bulb off the wiring plug and install a bright white 3MM LED with a 560ohm resistor on the + leg.  Works perfect for headlight and backup light.  I am sure that is close to what you do.  I have used this combination for years and never had a problem.  Myself I like the old look.

I imagine that would drive the price up.  Adding limiting resistors to the board, LED in the kit.  G

I do the same Marty, although I use a 220 ohm resistor.

 

George, why would it drive the price up, LED's are cheaper than incandescent bulbs, and the PS/3 board drives LED's directly.  You could omit the piggyback board, more savings.

 

John, the top board is needed.  It is just as easy to do it like mentioned. 

The way the kit is built, I agree it's probably needed.  My point was that a PS/3 locomotive doesn't need the top board and it runs all the LED lighting just fine.  I was hoping, apparently in vain, that there would be a kit to use LED's directly.  I suspect that I'm not going to get my wish.  It's clearly possible...

 

 

Maybe I asked you this before Marty. Will these have the fix for the polarity issue for 2rail? I have a UP 9000 I would like to put one in.

 

Thanks,

 

Ralph

That has not been talked about.

hi Marty

i have a 30-1172-1 proto 2 blue comet.

i bought it and it's DOA. from a seller, claims it was new in box and it looks it as well.

i have desoldered the 2 brds and found swelled caps and most of the caps are not near specs.

also the rectifier is ohming out to meg ohms.

if i were to upgrade it, i wish to go with the  original 5 volt ps2.

would it be cheaper to skip the original ps2 and go to the ps3 set up?

all i want to do it get the blue comet back to where it should be right out of the box or better.

whom can i get the brds from and is it easy enough to convert back to original or ps3?

please let me know as i have it on my bench now and thinking about trying new caps and see what happens, i did de-solder the 2 brds and plan to put them back together.

please let me know 

thank you for all you have done.

ron

would like to add that the eninge did nothing with or without the tender it was soundless and motionless.

Is it safe to assume that most tech will have kits available by summer?  I  have several conversions I'd like to have done this year.

hello guys

im trying to get ahold of GGG or gunrunnerjohn, i guess if they read this i need them to contact me on repairing or selling me what it takes to repair my blue comet. 30-1172-1. its power supply brd i shot and or the lower brd as well, they are both soldered together, i checked the caps and they are way out of spec.

please let me know either GGG or gunrunner,   either guy.

thank you

ron

i would also like to add, that if anyone on here is converting there steam engines to PS3, would you like to sell your old PS2 boards?

i have a blue comet 30-1172-1 and if you want to sell your old brd, to make money to go to PS3 let me know

i would probably buy at least one or maybe more, depending on price and if you dont need the brds, my brds are 2 soldered together, power supply on top i think anyway. 

please let me know

thanks guys.

ron

It should be noted that the PS3 upgrade boards and PS2/3 replacement boards are still running the PS2 sound files and software. All you are really getting is a PS2 board without a battery circuit. Now if you rewrite the boards to a PS3 chain file then you may or may not lose functionality of some components but will get a PS3 sound file but you will lose the ability to rewrite the board back to a PS2 sound file. Everybody is all hot to trot on upgrading PS2 to PS3 and there is no point being that there is actually little to no difference in PS3 boards in a PS2 loco. Still running PS2 sounds and no LED lighting so there is no point in upgrading PS2 to PS3

Thanks Marty. I'll go that route when the upgrade kits hit the streets.

well for those of us that dont know mcuh about this, when i try to "find" the engine with my remote, will it find the right engine? mine is a blue comet, and when i try to find the engine, i want it to find the blue comet, i know you guys know how to do this but i dont.

just asking

thank you

ron

what is in the upgrade kit, can you avoid the wires and not use them and just use the board that is in the bag and swap out with my bad PS2 brd, and not mess with the wires, caps and the rest of it?

please let me know as im looking at 50-1901 kit online.

thank you

ron

Ron, I have a perfect PS2 5 volt board I will sell if you want it, hit my email and we can talk.

i would buy it but how much, all i want is for my blue comet to work as it
should.
30-1172-1, will the remote be able to find it as the blue comet?
let me know
thank you for replying.


In a message dated 3/29/2015 1:29:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
alerts@hoop.la writes:

what is your email?
please let me know
ron


In a message dated 3/29/2015 1:29:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
alerts@hoop.la writes:

hello
read some of your profile, your gonna love this:
my dad and i are helping restore the champagne lady yes she is quite the
plane, lets just say its a B-17 bomber up in urbana ohio.
they also have a B-25 called the champagne gal also, it is to cool.
let me know about the 5 volt PS2 brd.
thank you
ron


In a message dated 3/29/2015 1:29:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
alerts@hoop.la writes:

he has so far rebuilt 3 out of 4 superturbo chargers, all wing flap axles and gear boxes, and is now working on the bombay doors and linkages.

he has restored 3 superturbo chargers and is trying to get 6 total, they only need 4 but want 2 spares, he is restoring them to 0 hours.

man is it interesting to say the least.

WOW..Cool..I know this is off topic, but please get some pix of the B17 and the B25...Love them!!!

The Base Board is a PS-3 so I am assuming, (as Marty mentioned it has not been discussed in the tech note yet) that it has the characteristics of PS-3 so it should pick up DCS signal on either rail for 2R operation, or DC operation.

 

John as far as LED, I don't think they are cheaper.  Retail, they are much more expensive.  While bulk buying from China is cheap, you still have to wire them up.

 

MSRP for a LED harness is $10, for a bulb it is $4 or 5.

 

Sure the bottom board is LED based, but then you have to go with the 40 pin connector and wiring.  While this works for diesel, it doesn't for steam which is otherwise a 2 board set up.

 

This becomes a apple or orange discussion, which do you like better.  While your big into LEDs other aren't.  Plus if you go LED you can't use bulbs and for UPGRADES where much of the original bulbs can still be used, you require more work changing stuff.  Especially big steam and diesels. 

 

Now, I did hear they were still debating how to go with the Diesel Kit.  So it may in fact become a straight PS-3 like kit. 

 

I think June is the target to get Kits into the market.

 

Ron, why not start a separate post on your subject.   G

At this point I'd do the PS32 replacement, buying an old 5V board is a bad investment.  So many of them have died percentage wise that I'd be pretty worried about any old used 5V board.  We can get the PS32 replacement boards now.

 

 

sorry GGG didnt mean to mess this thread up, i apologize to all on the thread.

i didnt want to start a new thread because there was so much talk on here about PS2 and PS3 that i thought it fit right in.

sorry guys

ron

thank you for the advice gunrunner.

how much are the PS32 boards and is that all that i need?

please let me know

ron

Ron, It is not that big a deal to me, but the hi-jacking tends to make the initial thread too long and disjointed.

 

A new thread gets you direct answers specific to your questions, which were many.

 

I sent you an e-mail with info you requested.

 

If you search on this forum you will also find many specific post on how to repair your 5V engine, with PS-2 3V or now also the PS-32.   Almost all of your questions are answered in those threads.  G

I agree with Marty. Not having to mess with the battery charging port will be nice.

I got the ASC update and I would imagine with the DCS/DCC jumper it should have the polarity capabilities for 2rail.

Just when I thought I was getting the hang of all this. Well I guess it's back to school again. Lol

I must say this is all well thought out. Can't wait to see more.
Ralph

I agree twice, that battery charging port always adds some time to the upgrade. 

While I don't find having to install a battery to be a particular problem, especially since smaller 2.4 V battery packs have become available, I agree that the charging port can be a problem.  I like to save that for last, when I have all the other components placed.  Therefore, before drilling are enlarging a hold for the charging port, I have to remove the speaker and other components so that they don't get fouled by metal filings.

Robert, I like to pull trucks and with a bare frame do all my layout work and drilling.  One time clean up and move on.  

You've done so many that I bet you know just where each component should go in each type of loco.

several, yes.

Nice to know there is a replacement.  So when one of mine pop I can send it to MTH for repair.  Just a little too scary reading the posting especially the "its just simple plug & play".  Being retired EE I had my share of plug and plays that didn't do well in the sandbox.  Because once you buy the kit and it doesn't work, its your word vs MTH, so you would end up sending it back to MTH to fix even if it was a bad out of box board, how would you prove it? 

But thats just me, your mileage may vary

The replacement for the 5 volt board is plug and play.  The upgrade kit is a different animal.  That has to be done the same as the previous upgrade kit.  Later this year will be the board sets for replacing boards in a PS2 3 volt system.  In picture 7 you will see the top board with the black connectors is for 5 volt systems and the white is for the 3 volt systems.  The bottom board is the same on both applications.

 

I have a board set on the way for my New York Central Niagara with the 5 volt board.  

As stated, MTH has had a transition plan for boards.  We replaced 5V with PS-2 3V boards with 5V connectors.  As 3V wind down, the first supply chain to dry up was the PS-2 3V with 5V connectors.  So when tech's order AE-15/16, MTH sends the PS-32 5V instead.

 

The PS-32 3V version has not been issued for replacement of PS-2 3V with 3V connectors yet since MTH still has AE-10/11 in stock.  But they did release it in the first PS-3 upgrade kits.  So it is around the corner.

 

Here is another piece of info that I was able to pick up.

 

As stated in a few post, it is designed for use with PS-2 3V sound files.  As the code in the PS-32 pickups the gear ratio and hardware data (light features, smoke control) from the PS-2 sound file.

 

PS-3 has it's own hardware table in the flash code specific to PS-3 engines.  What I found out is PS-3 sound files will work properly in PS-32 also, because by procedure, the sound file engineers still included the hardware table in the PS-3 sound file.  Even though PS-3 boards get the information from the firmware table.  You just load the sound file, not the flash code.

 

The one caveat is that gear ratio and lighting may not match for a specific engine.

 

If you load the specific file from your engine PS-2 upgrade file for PS-2 5V engines, or PS-2 3V for 3V engines you get the original sound file and characteristics.  Maybe some PS-3 kept that all the same, if so it would work.  Diesel ratio as an example seem to be the same.  But PS-3 lighting on diesels can be totally different from model to model because of the expanded lighting capability of PS-3.  G

 

 

Now I am not only bewildered, I am confused.  USed to be simple:  One upgrade kit for steam, one for diesel, and a third, available only for techs, to replace 5-volt boards.

 

Now it seems there are:

 

1. PS3 with connectors to replace PS2 5-volt boards ("3/2") techs only.  Will fit in steam locos that had boards in loco

 

2. PS3 with connectors to replace PS2 3-volt boards, techs only and not yet available.

 

3. PS3 steam upgrade kit with complete wiring, anyone can buy.  Has one board in tender and one in loco.

 

4. PS3 diesel upgrade kit with complete wiring, anyone can buy.  Not yet available.

 

1 & 2 are the same boards but with different plug-in boards on top,

 

Am I correct, or still befuddled?

Robert,

 

It's no more complicated than before:

1. PS3 with connectors to replace PS2 5-volt boards ("3/2") techs only.  Will fit in steam locos that had boards in loco

These replace the older 3 volt boards with 5 volt connectors that were only available to techs. These will go anywhere that the older PS2 3 volt boards with 5 volt connectors would go

 

2. PS3 with connectors to replace PS2 3-volt boards, techs only and not yet available.

These replace the older 3 volt boards with 3 volt connectors that were only available to techs, except where they were sold in the PS2 upgrade kits. These will go anywhere that the PS2 3 volt boards with 3 volt x=connectors would go

 

3. PS3 steam upgrade kit with complete wiring, anyone can buy.  Has one board in tender and one in loco.

Same deal as previous PS2 steam upgrade kit.

 

4. PS3 diesel upgrade kit with complete wiring, anyone can buy.  Not yet available.

Same deal as previous PS2 diesel upgrade kit.

 

1 & 2 are the same boards but with different plug-in boards on top,

Correct.

just for kicks guys:

everything RJR said ! ! ! !! 

hhaaa  hhhaaaaaaa

RJR, The PS-3 upgrade kit only has one PS-32 board for the tender.  No board in the engine.

 

I don't think MTH will say the PS-32 can always go in the engine.  Since only PS-2 5V had boards in the engine, the repair might require an upgrade like kit to put the board in the tender.

 

Frankly this has always been this way as far as boards.  AE-10/11 and 15/16 tech only (at higher cost), even though you could buy upgrade kit with AE-10/11 in it.  G

AE/10/11 what?

never even heard of this and im just watching, i gotta get some popcorn and a drink be right back ! ! ! !! 

is a 15/16 tech  1/16 short of a full tech?

im back with popcorn and my drink

GGG, the numbers "AE-10/11 and 15/16" are meaningless to me, not having a parts list.

Your statement "Since only PS-2 5V had boards in the engine, the repair might require an upgrade like kit to put the board in the tender." is interesting.  I have 2 steamers left with 5-volt boards, both in loco, and have 2 PS2 upgrade kits on the shelf which I acquired to replace them when needed.  MF had opined that if he were replacing an in loco 5-volt board, he'd opt for a re-do with board in tender.  Seems that that would be the way to go, so I'll just hold onto my kits.

 

Which then leaves the question, what does one do about marker and other lights in the loco when the board is moved into the tender?  I guess one way would be to install a CV board (with choke) and just leave the marker and firebox lights on all the time??????? Or add a relay onto the headlight circuit?????

 

I had been told by someone who should know that PS3 steam upgrade kits would have 2 boards, one in loco & one in tender.  I guess he erred????

Marty,

 

what is the average cost on the boards for upgrade or are they all over the map?

I've put a few 3V boards in the locomotive to replace the old cooked 5V board.  Unless you run into fit issues, I don't see doing the whole upgrade kit as an easier route.  Also, if you have a premier locomotive that has additional lighting options, you lose all those with an upgrade kit, you only get headlight control.

 

on a serious note here.

i wouldnt really like losing all the extra light controls with the upgrade kit.

i know we all leave the lights on, but there fun to turn off now and then.

all the bells and whistles make it funner.

wonder why you lose the light controls when up grading?

must not have the extra board or options?

gunrunner has said this before guys, if he thinks its not worth the upgrade, then it isnt.

AE-0000010 and AE-0000011 are the boards used in PS2 3 volt locomotives and PS2 upgrade kits.  These are the power (11) and processor (10) boards.  There is nothing complicated about any of this.  

 

If you do not like any of this you do not have to buy any of it.

 

I often wonder when people make a lot of noise, have they ever done a PS2 upgrade.

 

 

I sometimes find that a lot of people who  always have negative comments,  have not done any of this work.

 

John, I have never seen any feature the kit will not address.

Also, if you have a premier locomotive that has additional lighting options, you lose all those with an upgrade kit, you only get headlight control.

 

GRJ:  Why do you limit your statement to Premier?  I have R-K's that have marker, interior, firebox lights.

 

Marty, I hope your comment isn't directed to me.  I was a tad confused when the leading 5 zeroes were deleted from these numbers.  I don't have a master parts list. 

 

While I have a dozen or so upgrades, I have not done an upgrade to a 5-volt in-steam-loco board; when one failed, I replaced it with another 5-volt board taken from a diesel.  If I were to go to a tender-mounted board, how would I not lose the ability to turn marker lights and firebox lights on & off.  There is no lead from tender to loco for such functions.  It's been well over a year or two since I had one of those locos open, so I may be mistaken, but I don't recall any other boards.

 

 

Robert not at all.  I am just saying I know of no feature lost that John mentioned.  If the tender has marker lights, they will work if the sound file has them.  The sound file may or may not allow them to be turned on/off.  We have all run into something that would not cooperate.  Just find another sound file.  Ditch lights are a common one.  Firebox is usually a function of the MUx board.   

 

Let me know when you get the email I just sent you.

 

Marty

RJR, Those numbers have been thrown around plenty on post.  They are the parts #.  Sorry I left off the zero's

 

I have yet to meet a MTH PS-2 5V engine that would not take a PS-2 3V board in the engine.

 

I just point out there are alternatives if you can' fit it in an engine.

 

At this point, having tried to put a PS-32 in a FF Electric and just completed one in a RTR 4-6-0 starter tender, there will be fit issues because the board is taller, doesn't mount upside down (yet) and therefor position is more critical.

 

Big engine, tall shells, won't be an issue.  Others just might take more planning.  Good news is no battery or charge port.   G

 

The 4-6-0 tender had the speaker in the front.  SO the board had to be mounted in the back.  The tender slopes down at the back, and the mounting bracket raised it too high. So I had to exclude the mount and go direct to the chassis.  Basically had a smaller foot print on where I could put the board.

Really.  G

Marty, my point is the upgrade kits don't include the mux boards, so you don't have the extra lighting controls.  If you move the board from the locomotive to the tender, any extra lighting controls that you had get lost.  What you lose is the individual control of the features.  On many locomotives, you have separate control of the cab lights, marker lights, and headlight.  If you rip the old 5V board from the locomotive and install the standard upgrade kit in the tender, you have one lighting control, the headlight.

 

One of the benefits of PS/2 electronics was additional controls, but they tend to get lost with the upgrade kits.

dont pay attention to me guys, i dont know half of what you guys do.

im just watching and listening and learning.

 

gunrunner has said this before guys, if he thinks its not worth the upgrade, then it isnt.

Wrong.  It is up to the owner to decide if an upgrade is worth it.  I also don't recall GRJ ever making such a blanket statement.  I have upgraded locos over 60 years old.  Economically not justified, but because they were given to me by my parents, because I don't like to see them unused, and because I want to run them under command control along with my modern MTH stuff, to me they were worth the upgrade.

 

GGG:  I should have studied the thread and realized that the leading zeros were being omitted.  Mea culpa! There was a statement in the above thread that the PS3/2 upgrade boards might not fit in some locos, and you have pointed out specific instances.  This is what renewed this issue for me. 

 

GRJ:  I have to study the pinouts, but I suspect that adding a submini plug & socket set between tender and loco would enable these functions without a mux board.  I have used these in converting a tiny steamer which had no room for the 10-pin socket.  Personally, being able to turn on/off firebox glow or marker lights is not necessary; what I want is loco control.  In fact, one of the 1991 Weaver diesels that I upgraded has a beacon atop the cab, which I left hard-wired.  It flashes whenever track is powered, and I have found it a good feature.  ((FYI, RF&P switchers in Potomac Yards used toll have these so tower could see where they were.)

All valid popints Marty, I have a steam loco with PS3 and the LED headlight bugs me because it looks wrong with its white/blue light and yes the charging ports are a PITA. I was trying to be more to the fundamental operation of the PS3 kits and its more PS2 than it is PS3. I dont use BCR's and I find the batteries to be a PITA as well and not having to deal with them would be nice

You can certainly add tether pins (an extra tether) and add functions, they're available on the PS/2 or PS/3 board, assuming the sound file supports them.

 

I was just pointing out that the standard upgrade kit doesn't support the extra functionality out of the box.

 

Matt, you can swap that headlight out for a warm white if you don't like the color, or even a yellow one.

 

Marty F, GGG & Guns

   Will you guys please send me your e-mail addresses again, I had a major computer crash this week and need to re-enter them.  My e-mail address is Pine-Creek@live.com

PCRR/Dave

Dave,

 

Just get the E-mail addresses out of their respective forum profiles.

I didn't see where you said the PS3 steam and or diesel kits will be available for non- teks to buy?

Dan

The upgrade kits I mean.

Upgrade kits were always sold to consumer.  This has been posted before.  The PS-2 3V upgrade kit at $180 MSRP and $150 Club was the best thing going.  If you sent an engine to MTH for repair, excluding labor, the replacement cost of the parts was $200 boards and $34 for the steam hardware kit.  So $234 in parts alone.

 

The PS-3 will be more expensive based on the note (estimate $20 to $25, but the official price has not been posted yet.   G 

I've bought PS2 kits already and I bought a membership just for the discount. I was just wondering when I can start buying the PS3 kits.

Dan

Ok, I have installed a PS-32 in an S-2 Bantam Turbine to replace a engine mounted PS-2 5V.  Tight fit but it fit with relay facing forward.

 

I also installed one in the tender of a RTR 4-6-0 set with the 5V board in the tender.  In this case the speaker is forward were the tender shell is tallest, so the board had to go towards the back were the shell slopes down.  Had to mount the board directly to the chassis without the metal bracket provided.

 

Later I will be installing one in a Premier NYC Dreyfus engine, and the Unshrouded N&W J.  I will try to remember to take pictures.

 

The current flash program in this board has headlight output with diesel characteristics.  I have the new file that fixes this and have successfully installed it.

 

So hopefully it will be posted soon.  For those that have purchased kits or are using them in upgrades, you will need the new hardware table to get the headlight correct on steam.   G

I just did my first PS-32 upgrade last week.  I installed it in a F7 ABA set and used the original slave board for the trailing A.  It was a pretty smooth installation.  I did lower the board mounts but that was pretty easy due to the fact that there is no battery.

 

I think this design is pretty cool and will open up some other possibilities for those of us who like to tinker.  I do wish we could use the PS3 sound files.  Some of them are better than the upgrade files.

 

I also feel that these kits will be well worth it if the cost increase is not significant.

 

Dave

 

How can it be that you techs are installing PS32 boards but don'know the price?

MSRP for the required pieces.

 

PS3 Stacker Board      $205.00
PS3/2 Board (w/ black 5volt PS2 connectors)    $25.00
Protosound 3/2 Heat Sink Bracket Kit    $8.00

Ouch!

I'll hang onto my PS2 stock.

MSRP for the PS/2 board is $200, so it's about 10% more for the PS/3 replacement.

 

That's less painful.  I was thinking in terms of a comparison with the MTHRRC price for the straight upgrade kit.

Dave,  you can.  Please try it.  BUT just load the sound file not the PS-3 flash.  You may have missed my earlier post, but by procedure the engineers are still leaving the hardware table/speed ratios in the PS-3 sound file when they make it.  So the PS-32 should be able to find it.  The one caveat may be that the light configuration may be different. PS-3 has more variations.  You can always go back to the PS-2 sound file.  G

Dave, if you see this, I have tried more times than you know to see your shop in person. Once again, this week, I planned to stop by on our drive home. I forgot that you're closed on Mondays. I'm going to make it there as part of my bucket list I swear!!!

George,

 

I will give it a try.  Thank you!

 

Dave

 

George,

 

Works!  The Light functions seem to be working properly.

 

Thank you for the tip!  

 

Dave

 

I mentioned I would post some pictures of the PS-32 installs as replacements for PS-2 5V boards in the engine.  Here are a few.  So far I have installed this in a bantam Turbine engine, 4-6-0 RTR Tender, and now a Dreyfus and Unshrouded J in the engine.  The fits are tighter and you need to be creative with board mounting. For the J the heat sink could mount directly to a chassis screw, so I reversed the metal mount board and used it for support of the front of the board only.

 

You really need to do a lot of fitting an locating to ensure the shell can go back on and that wires, which sit much higher up then the PS-2 boards have clearance and nothing that can pierce or pinch.   G

 

 

with the current cost increases on locomotives, I am looking to upgrade many of my Williams and Third Rail brass steamers as well as some die cast MTH ps1 locos such as:

 

PRR t1

PRR Centipede 5 stripe set

 

Are these worth the upgrade?

GGG, just curious but does the board have to located in the boiler or was it just an option and that's where you decided to put it? Thanks for the info and pictures. 

The easiest way to put in the replacement board is if you can put it in the same place as the original.  If not, you have to do quite a bit of rewiring.

 

 

The board can be located anywhere.  George stated that he was replacing a 5vPS2 board which was probably originally located in the boiler.

 

Dave

 

Curve, I felt all my old locos were worth upgrading, but I did work myself.  You have to do your own cost/value analysis.  Some of my best running locos are the old upgraded ones.  They're broken in.

"Probably" Well was it in the boiler or not?

 

I'm sorry I didn't recall what George stated. There hasn't been any postings on this thread in almost 3 weeks. I didn't have time to re-read the entire thread.

 

So are most 5vPS2 boards located in the boiler? I haven't done an upgrade in along time and I've only done 4. None of the locomotives I did had the boards in the boiler.

Many of the older locomotives had the boards in the boiler, even smaller engines they managed to cram them in there.  Makes it interesting to replace them with the retrofit board.

 

Thanks John. To be clear I wasn't saying that the boards were never in the boiler just that I never worked on a locomotive that had them there. Obviously, you guys have worked on many, many more locomotives than I have. I guess I got lucky on the few upgrades that I did. It doesn't sound like fun to fit the board in the boiler.

 

What about upgrading a Lionel or like 'Curve asked about a Williams locomotive? Where do you guys put the boards then since there is no original board?

GGG's photos seem to show a loco with a lot of space in the boiler.  I have 2 5-volt board locos left.  I should be so lucky. 

For most upgrades, I put the boards in the tender as that's what the upgrade kit is wired for.  I put one in a boiler and hand-wired it, but the rest have gone in the tender.

 

John, I was just about to post the same thing. The Bantam I did I put in the boiler and it was TIGHT and I had to get creative with the wiring.

John, how did you handle front marker lights on the loco when you put the replacement board into the tender/

If an upgrade has markers, I either leave the CV board they run from, or if that's not there, a resistor and diode to track power.

Yes, these were original 5V with boards in the engine.  That is usually the harder replacement with a non original board.

 

If I go that route RJR, I feed the engine markers off the headlight circuit with a limiting resistor.  Works fine and they don't come on until engine is started up.

 

While there looks to be plenty of room at the base and length, you start running out of real estate at the top.  Narrows and looses height.  Plus you are trying to match up to existing threaded holes.  G

GGG, so you add the 2 markers to the headlight circuit.  What size resiator do you use?  I assume the headlight xircuit can handle the 2 marker bulbs in the PS2 upgrade kit?

No problem adding the load of a couple of LED's to the bulb circuit, I've seen three or four incandescent bulbs on lighting circuits on factory installations.  The bulbs draw more than LED's...  I'd use a 330 or 370 ohm resistor, and maybe even larger.  I don't like the markers to be brighter than the headlights, so I tend to tone them down.

 

john when you add the resisters for lighting led's dov you use 1/4 watt or half watt?

Alan

It has been awhile sinc I dug into an upgrade kit.  Were the markers leds or grain of wheat?

PS2 upgrade kit markers are 2mm ceramic LED's.

 

Alan, I use 1/4w resistors, there's rarely a need for more power dissipation.  I also tend to try to string them in series whenever I can to minimize the power dissipation of the resistor.

 

I use a 150 ohm resistor and convert the markers to series if they are not already series.  150 is what MTH used on PS-1 6V CV boards.  All PS-2 markers are series.

Works fine.  G

Ok, Here is the install in a PS-2 5V FA-2 ABA.  Tight between motor and smoke, so I had to mount board sideways. Used the original PS-2 5V bracket which screws in from the bottom of the chassis (Good).  Bent it up vertical and used it to heat sink the rectifier.   G

Is there any word on when the consumer PS3 upgrade kits will be shipping?

Last I heard was June for the steam kits, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

George, that was a tight one.  Good move.  John, when 

Jeff did the service updates, did you request any kits?

I didn't, are they available?  I still have a couple of the PS/2 kits.

Some were sent to the tech guys who requested them.  My best information is they will be ready for July.  The public can buy them then also.  MTH is still keeping the PS3 2 board to replace 5 and 3 volt boards to tech only.  I will not buy and sell these to people unless I am the person who does the installation.  I still have many 5 volt boards running around the layout.  

 

The kit is the same except no battery or wiring that goes with it.  You can do one in your sleep John.  

Since they're using the "replacement" board, I figured the kits would be very similar.  I've used some of the PS/32 boards for 5V replacements, but I still have a few spare 3V boards that I can use as well.

 

I wonder what is holding up the diesel upgrade, maybe it's the extra stuff like pantographs?

 

the last i heard from mth i had ordered 2 ps2 3 volt steam kits but they did not get as many as they thought they would , so i was called after i placed the original order and they said they would mail me a ps 3 kit in it's place since ps 2 3 volt kits where no longer available. Midge told me that the ps3 kits would be shipped in June 2015!

Alan

What are the MTH part #s for the PS3 upgrade kits?

 

Thanks.

The kits on hand were sent to the tech guys for beta testing.  Part numbers are 50-1911 for steam and 50-1912 for diesel.

 

Diesel harness are the hold up.  G

Here is a DASH-9 Upgrade.  I thought some one stated this did not fit because of body width.  It is very tight and I had to do some precision measurements before attaching the bracket.  Tolerances where about 1mm. It had to be centered along width, but also fore and aft because of the tabs on the body.  You could trim these off as an alternative.

 

Wires must run from front or rear.  Can't have wires coming up the side of the board.

 

G

Nicely done again George. Its obvious you are a perfectionist. The factory jobs are not as well done.

 

Pete

Thats because George can take the time to do it right. The Chinese just slap it together, chop-chop-done-next, since its probably pay by the piece work.  More engines/cars is more Yaun in the pocket.

I want to upgrade my SF Blue Goose with scale wheels from PS-2 to PS-3 so I can run it on DCC.

 

I was told that the PS 2/3 kits would be available in June.  This is June 30.  Are the boards available?  Does anyone know when they will be available if they aren't here yet?

 

Thanks,  NH Joe 

Hi I just talked to Midge yesterday at MTH she told me the ps3 kits might not be out until July or August!

Alan

I suppose that July or August really means September or later.  I guess that I will just have to wait.  It is frustrating.

 

NH Joe

Don't know if this was answered, but will the PS3 upgrade kits be available for conventional locomotives that have can motors and flywheels? Was thinking about switching some Atlas engines over to Proto-3 since they're the older 32-step TMCC.

Yes,  Same requirement as PS-2.  DC motor and flywheel and you can upgrade to PS-32.  G

Thanks.

Marty, do you have to have a PS1 get Upgraded to Proto 2.0 before you upgrade it to Proto 3.0? Or can you just convert a Proto 1.0 to Proto 3.0 right off the bat?

Thanks

Not Marty, but see GGG's reply two messages up.

 

---PCJ

Tim, No. Yes.

 

Once upgraded to ps2, no point in going to ps3.

YES PS 3 can me put in any engine as long as it has dc motors and flywheel for tach board.   all kit's you purchase ps2 ps3 instruction on how to upgrade the steam or diesel engine!Alan

Do we have pricing on these kits?

Spoke to MTHRRC today.  PS3 upgrade kits are shipping, as they are received.  Working now on backorders,  Steam mote available than diesel, for now.  Club price $149 plus shipping.

 

That is great pricing, hope they leave it there for a while.

Further conversation with MTH indicates (1) the MTHRRC website will continure to be unavailable for a month or so (maybe by Yorkday) and I shouldn'ty look for my ship until about then.

Either somewhere in this post or in a different one, I read that if you have PS2 you don't need to go to PS3. Why?

 

Thank you, Terry

 

PS: I am NOT the techie!

The PS/3 upgrade as it exists doesn't bring much to the party if you already have a working PS/2 locomotive.  Since you still use PS/2 sound files, the sounds are the same.  About the only thing you get is no battery, but that's not sufficient reason to spend several hundred dollars on a perfectly working engine.

 

John how about the older PS  3 engines that MTH has been selling for years do they also use ps2 files?

Alan

If you have a 5V board, I'd just run it until it quits, if it ever does.  Then you can use the upgrade kit to fix it.  Why fix stuff that ain't broke?

 

Good summary John,  as I understand it (and have both PS3 and PS2 engines) the difference:

- No battery (BCR built in)..... easy enough to install BCR's in PS2 engines

- Rule 17 / LED lighting

- More memory / storage for better sounds down the road.

I believe that may be it that we could actually see / hear.  Certainly the electronics are different.

 

I have a PS3 GP40 and a few PS2 GP40 diesels.  The sounds are definitely improved in the PS3,  but it all depends on the sound set recording.

 

PS1 to PS3 is well worth it as you move to command control.   PS2 to PS3?  As John stated,  unless it fails,  I agree it is probably not worth the $$ but to each his own...

 

Mark

Thanks gunrunnerjohn!  Terry

Mark,

 

The PS/3 upgrade does not offer Rule-17 lighting, it still drives incandescent bulbs.  You have to have a factory PS/3 with the LED's to get the Rule-17 lighting.

 

The difference in sound file, if there is any, is a moot point for the upgrades as they have firmware that requires you to load PS/2 sound files.  More memory?  Well, you have to be able to load PS/3 sound files to use any of that.

 

I've seen discussions about loading chain files to allow loading PS/3 sound files into the upgrade.  I have no idea if that works or how well.  Also, since that is certainly not an MTH supported configuration, I don't think the average user is likely to consider it very seriously.

 

OTOH, If you have a factory PS/3 equipped locomotive, most of the advantages and potential advantages you mention do exist.  I'd like to see a PS/3 upgrade kit that supports LED's directly and allows you to use PS/2 or PS/3 sound files.

 

 

I have 2 PS2 steam upgrade kits on the shelf.  I have 2 PS2 9-volt locos left, for which the kits are intended. When I install them, I'd use Digikey supercaps, which are very much smaller than any batteries and presently in all my 3-volt PS2s.  I also have 2 PS3 upgrade kits on order, as I understand they come through set up to take the plugs found in 9-volt installations.

 

The differences between factory PS3 and upgrade PS3 is disappointing to me.

I believe the PS/3 upgrade kits are going to use the 3V connector styles, not the 5V connector styles. 

 

Note that this is only a belief, as I haven't gotten one yet, but I thought that's what I had heard.

 

There is the PS32 board for 5V replacements that indeed does have the 5V connectors, I've put several of those in, and I still have one left in stock.