Scale GG1 Comparison - GG1s live on!

Jonathan

You may recall I posed the question earlier in this thread as to who we should credit the GG-1's and the P5a's unique, rounded center cab shape.

In spite of all the wonderful new information presented by Hampton C. Wayt in the CT article:

I still don't know for sure.

I think we can agree that the unique, sinuous streamlined centered cab look of the GG-1 is most likely the work of Donald Dohner. That Dohner was involved with the styling of that shape (along with Loewy's later participation of course) there is no doubt whatsoever.

For this information alone, I'm are extremely grateful to author Hampton C. Wayt.

Unfortunately, it appears that no record, with a date, attributes anyone with the idea of using the center cab.

Wayt states Dohner wrote about his GG-1 designs. Frustratingly, Wayt revels nothing else about this very important document, particularly any dates.

There are company records that the Railroad was working on the a centered cab design. The mention of the door mounted headlight, and the skirting in these meetings and the existence of the Dohner plaster models bearing these same attributes leaves very little doubt of Dohner's contribution during March and April of 1934.

The fact that Dohner was involved with a center cab design at Westinghouse is the strongest evidence that Dohner may have come up with the center cab principle for the GG-1. Regarding the P5a, Wayt claims that the GG-1 shape came first then was adapted for the P5a rather than the other way around as was generally supposed. In both these cases, since he cites no record, I would agree with you Jonathan that this is supposition.

The spring of 1934 was certainly a time of intense work and creativity at Pennsy, Baldwin, Westinghouse and Gibbs & Hill. Oh, to be a fly on the wall!

If only my long gone relative who consulted for Gibbs and Hill was still here!

An admirable contribution to the cause ... Thanks.

The MTH R50 and Weaver B60 are worh it!

The Weaver 60' RPO was a\based on N&W, but did not PRR buy some off of them?

Dominic - I agree, both the R50 and the B60 are very admirable efforts. As a PRR fan, I don't think you can have enough! However, based on the CT articles this month, I'd love to get a REA three door express baggage though too!

I'm up to 5 R50's and 5 B60's. Now it's time to pick up a few Atlas X-29's and my head end is nearly complete.

The M60 was a N&W creation, but it is very interesting to me that N&W cars were largely based on PRR designs like the P70, MB70, B70, etc. I guess 48% ownership by the PRR during that period meant something.

I think you are correct that PRR ended up with some of the M60 cars, but personally I'd like to add a N&W car to my consist for a little head end variety. You can never have enough head end on your train. That's where most of the passenger revenue came from anyway!

The large scale GG was a Gold's Standard. the O guaue looks similar in construction with the exception of the chain drive as opposed to gear drive on the standard gauge one.

I don't have a G. But I do use the MTH and Weaver products behind a doodlebug. Nice looking local train.

I could see a run through RPO with the N&W...they did connect and interchange.

Johnny - That is one sweet loco. No budget for it now, but I am eagerly awaiting the 3rd Rail version. It is certainly a unique loco to roster and there is still room for reservations. I have a really good feeling that it will be pretty accurate.

Dominic - I just got the Walthers mailer today and they have four B60b versions these days. The prices are not terrible either! Of course they are HO. You wouldn't believe the specific variety now for passenger cars in that scale now. They are gorgeous.

I finally got a MTH GG1. "The Beer Train"

Wow! It really feels like a Engine compaired

to Williams GG1.








The sounds are different from USAT G scale I have which ones are correct?



JohnnyJT
South Philly

The ultimated O scale GG-1 has to be the ome produced by Koh's




Jan

Jan,

The Kohs version is certainly the Lamborgini of the bunch! Not great runners from what I hear, but the detail is dead for each of the road numbers they produced. These still sell for original price used. Can't say that amount much brass!

quote:

Originally posted by Jan:
The ultimated O scale GG-1 has to be the ome produced by Kohs [Jan

Kohs GG1 is probably the most accurate and best detail, but not the best puller.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jan:
The ultimated O scale GG-1 has to be the ome produced by Koh's

As listed on Ebay for $3100 did not sell.





JohnnyJT
South Philly

quote:

The Williams will look okay through an 054 curve. Again, a little tight, but not terribly so.

I have the Williams scale GG1 and run it on 054 curves. Recently had it upgraded to TMCC, RS5.0 and ERR. It runs and sounds great. Only thing is that the tower com calls it a PRR 4925 when it is a PRR 4913. Other than that it's great.

I did lose the pantograph sounds because those boards and the smoke unit were left out of the upgrade.

Well...as of Friday I am a GG1 owner. I never got to see one run, I have been in the cab of the unit at Roanoke, but family working for the PRR and stories of them made me get one. A Williams scale GG1 in Amtrak paint was my choice. A green 5 stripe was the first choice but this one came along at a price I could not pass up. It may get repainted but the Amtrak scheme is growing on me and since I travel Amtrak whenever I can....it kinda fits. The Williams unit is very nice with great paint and enough detail for me.

Great thread here.....my only wish is I could have seen one run. My wife was dragged down to the station as a kid to watch trains....GG1 among them...kinda jealous she saw them....and didn't really want to! Thanks to all!

I'm looking forward to seeing this G sometime in the hopefully not too distant future!

4800 looks like a G crossed with a knight from the Middle Ages! Nice model!

Sensational GG-1 photos & a stunning collection! Thanks for posting them! Dick K.

Can anyone tell me if the Lionel JLC Single stripe Tuscan has the FARR filters (Lionel #18354, road number 4916) or not?

4916 did not have FARR filters until sometime into the PC era. While it was briefly in the single stripe Tuscan scheme it was pure original design.

The only two that Lionel has offered with the FARR filters are in PC and Single Stripe DGLE - 4925.

The only other G to get the Tuscan single stripe was 4907. I always wondered why more didn't get this color as all the passenger diesels did.

quote:

Originally posted by GG1 4877:
I always wondered why more didn't get this color as all the passenger diesels did.

I don't think that the red paint aged very well, especially with all of that wet gunk dripping down on motors from the catenary. Anyway, I'm a DGLE fan and I don't plan on acquiring any of the red single stripe units.

My new favorite : MTH scale issue

quote:

Originally posted by ChessieMan:
I took two good, long hard looks at the Lionel JLC silver GG1 at York yesterday. It just did not move me to buy it, even at $499. I disliked it more than the tuscan red GG1s. I will concentrate on finding a DGLE (Brunswick Green) five-stripe JLC model to go with my DGLE single stripe unit.

What does "DGLE" mean????

Ron,

It stands for Dark Green Locomotive Enamel, more commonly know to railfans as Brunswick green.

I had to eat my words that you quoted because I ended up with a silver GG1. I guess $474 was enough to move me

quote:

Originally posted by prr4935:

quote:

Originally posted by ChessieMan:
Thanks again for this thread, Jonathan. Since I first read it, I have doubled my GG1 collection. I may sell one or both of my Williams scale models if I can ever find them.

Chessie Man,

If you find those Williams scale GG1s let me know. After getting my first Williams scale GG1, I'm thoroughly infected now and need more. I'm thinking Tuscan 5-stripe next, then DGLE 1-stripe, and so on and so on ...

Chris,

You have mail!

Chessie- Some of my "on the fence engine purchases" ended up being some of my favs. Ol' Silver might grow on you !

Have fun,
Stack

Question about 4800:

It used to have its lighted numbers in a dome on the top front when she was built. Later, she had lighted numbers on the front sides like the rest of the fleet. when did the change occur?

quote:

Originally posted by DominicMazoch:
Question about 4800:

It used to have its lighted numbers in a dome on the top front when she was built. Later, she had lighted numbers on the front sides like the rest of the fleet. when did the change occur?

On the PRR in-house builder's drawings there is a notation on some of the various tracings that that design was made obsolete in March of 1935.

There are several photos of both versions of the 4800 in both the original design and the post Loewy mods. I have some nice builders photos of the remodeled version, but photos of 4899 renumbered 4800 in service are not as common.

There is a new addition to my GG1 family...











JohnnyJT
South Philly

G....A reat Tuscan model!

Could someone tell (or show me) how far a scale Williams GG1 would overhang on a 045 curve? I'm building a new tunnel and I would like to plan to run a G.

Andy,

I don't have any 045 track, but I can dig out some 042 and shoot a picture of the Williams version on that for you. I swings wide, but it does work. I used to run a loop of 042 under a bed with a Williams GG1 pulling 21" Atlas Horizon cars. Talk about overhang.

Thanks, Jonathan. I'm using 036 and 045 loops and I'm putting two portholes on the curves. My longest engine is SD40-2 at 17-1/2" and the overhang is close to the edge.

Looks like he prices of the JLC GG1s have increased over the past couple of months. The silver model is the exception.

Andy - I didn't forget about the pictures.

Here is WBB Scale GG1 on some 042 Fastrack on my living room carpet.

Plan view: Yeah it overhangs, but not completely offensive.


Head on view: Sorry for the bad photo. Handheld at 1/4 second! Yeah it hangs over quite a lot from this perspective!


Side views: First inside the radius and second, outside the radius.

4877:

Seems the G is on RK track, not FT. But great looking G!

quote:

Originally posted by DominicMazoch:
4877:

Seems the G is on RK track, not FT. But great looking G!

It's a borrowed loop of track so I can program all my TMCC locos. I don't know the first thing about the difference between MTH or Lionel sectional pre-ballasted track!

That's ok. A TMCC/L programing track is a good idea!

Great, thanks for the photos, Jonathan. I think I should be able to run one with what I'm planning. It's neat there's no overhang at the center of the engine.

quote:

Originally posted by GG1 4877:

Head on view: Sorry for the bad photo. Handheld at 1/4 second! Yeah it hangs over quite a lot from this perspective!


Side views: First inside the radius and second, outside the radius.

You can run the larger locos and passenger cars if you design your layout viewing using the viewing principles that Jonathan has shared with us visually. It has be stated on these forums several times that if you place your trackage at eye level, overhang is not noticeable. Jonathan's photos provide an excellent tutorial on this because they are taken at track level.

The first picture is a head on shot down the tracks. When designing a layout, those views on curves should be avoided because the overhang is very apparent. But take a look at photos numbers two an three. That overhang is not noticeable!

You know it's a real shame how Scale GG1 and Articulated locos
look on tight curves. I use Fastrack O72 because O84 is about
double the amount of money.


JohnnyJT
South Philly