shorting track :(

Check if you are using metal kadee.

to solve it you need to mix plastic gearbox with metal couple and vice verse.

or use plastic screw and paper gasket to isolate the whole gearbox from the metal frame.

check isolation on the wheels.

my 2 cents

Andre.

Do you have Atlas 2-rail switches?  If so the frogs are notorious for "moving" and shorting the closure rails.

Hard to tell with the limited information about your setup and resources, but you'll need to isolate the problem.

I'd break it down into whether it is the track wiring and trackwork, the engine or rolling stock, or the DCS or Lionel power source.

I'd look for closed gaps first as Ray suggests.

If the short happens with different engines and no rolling stock on the layout, you'd likely eliminate the engines and rolling stock as the problem. I'm not sure if MTH engines still have switches on them to designate DCS, DC, 2 rail, 3 rail, etc, but you need to check that.

If you can't make the determination at that point, I'd get a single 3 foot section of track isolated from the layout, alligator clip the power to it and set the engine on there and run it. If the problem still happens then it may be your power source. If it runs fine on the 3 foot section then you'll need to look at your track wiring and switches on the layout more closely.

In the Northeast at this ime of the year the wood layout framing shrinks (do to dry air) while the rail length stays relatively constant.  Over longer runs of benchwork it adds up - potentially leading to kinked track or closed gaps - especially if the track was laid "tight" during a more humid time for the year.  If you use AtlasO or other turnouts with air gap insulation at the frog check to see if the frogs are still properly insulated.   Just yesterday I had a short in a turnout (ROW frog) built last summer that I hadn't gotten around to insulate with epoxied in place .010" plastic.

Ed Rappe

If you have a meter, read across the two rails and see what you get. If there is no short, I'd put a plastic wheeled car on the track and push it around to see if you can make a short (watch the meter needle)!

You are doing a commercial for rechargeable battery power.

Simon

this is really frustrating. I isolated some track, the engines, dcs and power source worked perfectly. So I thought it must be the track. I then made sure the ROW frog was insulated with the plastic insulated joiners (yet it has always been) but the shorting kept happening. The shorting only happens when something is -in motion-, what does that mean? I may have to re-lay the switch.

give more information.

like: are you running brass, plastic,wood,plastic wheels, single isolated wheels. double isolated wheel.

all this will help.

AG.

I know sorry,

All MTH engines, cars are MTH and Atlas. All metal wheels from factory. All recent models, 4 years at the most. Could it be that the switch rails are steel and the rest of the track is nickel silver?

Kadees are all plastic boxes

check the guage of the wheelsets, one or more may be too wide or narrow

check to see if any wheels are shorting against the truck sideframes

Do you get sparks all over the track and not just the turnout mentioned above? 

Have you have done the other things suggested? 

Are the actual sparks relatively minor in nature?

If so, then consider applying a very very thin coating of light oil or automatic transmission fluid on a short section of easy to clean up track and run that particular train back and forth to see if that does not cure the problem.

Cold spells with extended unmoistened hot air can cause this problem.  I first experenced this many years ago in both Lionel and HO RRs of my youth.

Not saying that this is your problem however it is something that does occure.

I always used 3 in 1 oil.   MR had an cover story recently where they supposively discovered this for the first time a short while ago. The kids working at MR do not know that trick was in MR in the mid fifties.  I believe the article originally referrenced oil filled electric switch boxes or something like that.

I never noticed much slippage and you will not need to treat but a very short section of track with an extreamly small amount of oil. 

If this is the source of your problem and you continue to run for a period of time with the sparks you will pit both the sparking metal wheels and rail heads.  Then you will have a serious problem.  tt

 Probably not the exact problem, is that a Lionel CW80?? If so, that Lionel transformer is known to act up with MTH engines. It causes them to get scrambled some times and not act correctly. 26 volts is a little high?

 The sparks are happening also with your pass cars so maybe you could try a diff transformer??

SPARKING does not always means SHORTING. I would first determine the cause.

Here's how to do that:  Put a light bulb across the track. If it goes off or dims significantly when the sparking occurs, the you indeed have a short.  If it stays on, or dims only slightly, you have poor contact between wheels and rails

Here is the reasoning: 

Sparks fly when voltage is applied across a small insulating gap. In our case that insulator can be air, crud on the track, etc. If the voltage is high enough, the insulator no longer can hold off the voltage, and it breaks down. And the result is a spark. 

For example, if you slowly bring the two wires from your transformer together without any thing between them, you will get to the point where the air between the wires can no longer hold off the voltage, and you get a miniature lightning strike..aka a spark.  Then, since there is no electrical load (resistance) in the circuit, you get a short circuit.  A lightbulb in parallel with these wires would go dim, because none (or little) of the current goes through the bulb. In this case the spark is driven by the voltage provided by the transformer

If on the other hand the current is flowing through a motor or a light bulb, and you suddenly interrupt the current flow (say for instance if you have dirty track), you will also get a spark. Here the voltage for the spark is supplied because you suddenly interrupted the current flow.  There is no short,  because once the  current is flowing again everything is working normally. So that aforementionned light bulb will stay lit, becauseyou never diverted current away from it.  Note that voltage can be surprisingly large..in fact much larger than the transformer voltage. Hence you can get some pretty spectacular (and damaging!) sparks.

I suggest you figure out which one you have, per the test above.  If its poor contact, clean everything (wheels and rails). If its the former, follow the advice given here.

Agree with John - you have got to seperate arching issues  from shorting ones to find and fix the problem.   

My previous DC powered layout was laid with steel rail and unless I oiled the rails lightly I routinely had arching.  I ignored the problem for several years and this lead to degraded operation as wheel treads pitted creating surfaces that attracted crud.  The fix for me was a very very light application of Whal hair clipper oil.  About once a month before operating sessions I'd put a few localized drops on the rails and run trains to spread it around the layout.  Bingo - no arching.  As a few readers on this forum can remember - just a little too much oil on rails up a grade can bring operations to a standstill! Before solving the arching issue with light oil things got so bad that I had to replace the pitted wheels sets on almost all my tenders.

On the new railroad built with NS rail and powered with DCC I've not had to oil the rail to prevent arching.  If I had to speculate whether it was the steel rail or my homebuilt DC power causing the arching I' d fault the steel rail.

Ed Rappe

A few simple things you've probably considered or have done:

If you've made it this far along, I'd make sure the rolling stock is off the rails or isolated while you are troubleshooting with the engine. 

Check for a loose wire on the layout.

Two weeks ago a newer Weaver head end car on my layout had a worn out a plastic washer that lead to a short in the journal. It was pretty easy to isolate with a chirping DCC sound.

I've also had engines exhibit the behavior you describe, MTH A's, after a long period of not operating. I attributed it to oxidation on the wheels of the engine since it seemed to go away after a lap or two around the layout. However, it is happening to all of your lighted cars which would bring me back to the track. I definitely saw that behavior after sawing in the basement and not cleaning the track on my old 3 rail layout. I'm more careful with sawing  down there these days.

 by the descriptions so far, that does make better sense. But the rest of the layout is NS?? So the answer needed is this just occuring on the steel switch rails??

Caution: THREAD HY-JACK!

Chris, for containing sawdust in an normally non carpentry work area consider Zip-Wall. 

You can set up a total dust containment zone in about 10 minutes.  I have used this system in rec  rooms with great customer satisfaction.  I purchased the 4-pack unit.  About $250.  HD has a cheapie version D.I.Y. homie kit that may work also.

Thanks Tom for the suggestion. I'll look into it. It sounds good. I have come up with a system to isolate some areas for sawing by hanging shower liners. I have a  halo of PVC pipe curtain rods clipped to the drop ceiling. The shower liners clip on and off off easily.

as Ed mentions, be VERY careful using any oil on the rail. we had disasterous results this past holiday season during our open house, all related to too much oil on the rails!

use sparingly!

chck the insulators on the center rails.

I have to agree with Ed - sounds like dirty wheels to me, and/ or you are using a lot of those sintered iron wheels for pickup.  I have found that carbon steel wheels and tires are essential on all locomotives and rolling stock, and that a Wahl Clipper Oil equivalent is necessary to keep the sparks and pitting down to a dull roar.  If you run every single day, you probably do not need the clipper oil.  I use oil that is similar to lamp oil - same idea, but cheaper.  I apply it with a block and a piece of 400 wet or dry sandpaper.

Popi,

What is a center rail?

Ken

For my 2 cents I would say clean, clean and clean the track.  Then see what happens....

Popi.....center rail........ahhhhh the horror....

thanks for the input everyone.... I'm really embarrassed to say that all the fuzz was actually just dirty track. I clean it fairly often w some alcohol and a clean rag and never had a problem for 3 years so I never thought that would be the case. I guess I wasn't cleaning enough and it build up to the point where it would stall the engines and spark like ****. Maybe humidity was a factor, I don't know. Well from now on I'll never underestimate the power of dirt.

Hey, it's fixed, that's all that matters! Good for you!

Simon

A clean track is a happy track. I always clean by hand but I think I'll bite the bullet and buy Pats Trains new track cleaning car. In Pennsy. 

26 volts can make lots of sparks I bet. That's pretty high IMHO. 

Glad to hear it is fixed and all is well again.