siding problems with MTH proto

If you are running DCS, post this on the DCS forum.  Also describe precisely your wiring.

Are all three rails isolated on both ends of the siding.

Mikey

If you are using the DCS command control I would think that all you need to do is to turn the engine off with the DCS unit and leave power on to the siding. The engine should not move when it is parked even with track power applied.

I think that the problem is turning off power to the siding and your remote is not locating the engine again. Put the engine into either nuetral or off position on the remote and see what happens.

Lee Fritz

Berg,

   I agree with RJR, post this in the DCS section, Lee Fritz is partially correct in his answer, it could also be the type pf switch you are using, and how it was installed.  Jim Barrett has a great Back Shop section in a OGR video explaining how to install the correct type switches for isolating track, you might want to watch it, if you have not seen it.

PCRR/Dave

Obviously, the webmaster has moved thos thread to the appropriate forum.

Berg, If wired correctly, when you power on the siding by throwing the toggle switch, if you hit startup, the loco should start properly.  My entire layout has toggle-switched blocks.  You have to tell us how the layout is wired.  Also, if you have a TIU other than a Rev L, attach a light bulb at the end of the siding and see what happens.

Berg,

Since you lose control when you run an engine into a siding, I'd suggest checking to see if you accidentally reversed the wires to the rails.

The RED terminal from the TIU output should go to the center rail while the BLACK output terminal should go to an outside rail. If reversed, the engine will not respond to any DCS commands.

 If these are  dead end tracks, you could put a "magic bulb" at the end of the  track. or  lighted track bumper)  it really does wonders.

I will check the wiring and see if it is reversed, although i would doubt it that it would be on all 3.  I already have a lighted bumper on the sidings. I just find it strange that it works at times, and then stops. can someone point me in the direction of a wiring diagram, or where to find that video mentioned? As for the way i wired mine, I think i just picked up the ground from the main line, and ran the center rail to the switch, and then from switch to power, but not sure it is from TIU, may be from transformer. It is very frustrating. As for the switches I believe I picked them up at the york show..

Hi Berg,

I believe you are losing the signal on the spurs from interference from the FasTrack switches.

Place a 220uh choke across the Aux In  and GND terminals on the switch. Forum member Tackindy and others have had this issue. The choke resolves it.

ok you lost me on that one. what aux in, and ground terminal? on the switch itself , the actual switch into the siding?

I believe he is referring to the FasTrack switch (I use turnout when discussing switches and switches, lol). 

Barry may correct me, but when I install toggles (SPDT to be specific) I went from my distribution block thru the switch to then to the track.  I wire from the TIU to a distribution block to provide star wiring to the track blocks on the layout.

I believe the video being referred to is the OGR video covering DCS.  It be purchased thru the OGR website or from your hobby shop.

FWIW

Hi Berg,

You would replace the track power jumper on the switch(turnout) with the choke. One lead to each terminal. Sorry for not being more specific.

The electronics of the switch motor\control board can interfere with the DCS signal.

As for the way i wired mine, I think i just picked up the ground from the main line, and ran the center rail to the switch, and then from switch to power, but not sure it is from TIU, may be from transformer. It is very frustrating. As for the switches I believe I picked them up at the york show..

Hmm. the power to the siding (via the switch)  must come from the tiu or track that already has a dcs signal on it. Not directly from the transformer.

I've inserted a 22uh choke into the power lead of my Fastrack switches that run off track power, I'd recommend it if you haven't done that.

Ok, one more thought. With FasTrack, the power toggle for the siding should be wired inline with the center rail from the 5" block track or a 1 3/8" track.

Remove the jumper wire and connect each side of a SPST switch to the terminals that the jumper wire was connected.

This simply makes or breaks the center rail connection of the siding. The common(outside rails) are connected with the track pins as they normally are.

Look under the Fastrack switch.  You'll see a jumper between the Track Jumper and the Aux In terminals.  Replace that jumper with a 22uh choke, I'd select one with a 500ma rating or more.

Moonman,

   You are absolutely correct with your one more thought, wired in this manner I have never had any problems with my sidings.  Course I only have a couple.  No choke has been required on them, and so far no problems with starting any engine on the siding once the toggle is thrown in the correct direction.  On the next Christmas layout I will probably remove the toggle switches to expand the layout any way.  However Guns it pretty slick at this electrical stuff, I would listen to his advise if you intend use numerous siding toggle switches thru out your layout.

PCRR/Dave

Single-pole toggle switches in the hot feeds to blocks should not cause any problems whatsoever.  My entire layout, including main lines, is divided into some 70 +/- toggled blocks.  There are no tricks necessary; any switch capable of handling 6 or more amps should be suitable.   Do not switch the ground (outside rail) circuits.

Not having fastrack switches, I express no opinion on those.

Berg, you mentioned you weren't sure where you got the power from? This is important. If you got it directly from the transformer it's not going to work.  The power must come a track that already has the dcs signal on it or from the tiu. (maybe even a spare channel for a perfect dcs signal)

Just so I understand, if FasTrack turnout's electronics interferes with DCS signal, does it do so all-the-time, more so in one position or the other, only while changing position, etc.?  I'd think Berg would have DCS signal problems on his mainline(s) too if the mere presence of a FasTrack turnout is the issue - or maybe he does and it's much worse on the siding?

Can you temporarily disconnect center-rail power to FasTrack turnout and place the engine on the powered siding?  I'd think this could determine whether the FasTrack turnout is an issue.

Additionally, how about temporarily taking the siding power switch out of the equation by powering the siding from the mainline without the isolating block tracks.  Not sure it's convenient to do so but just brainstorming ways to isolate the problem.

Thanks for the replys guys. I will 1st try to re-run the wiring from siding to the toggel switches. if that doesn't work, then I will try the chokes… Just to clarify, should I run the power and the ground from the TIU? The power to toggel-toggel to track in siding, and ground from tiu-track in siding….sound right? Thanks JB

stan2004,

There have been two forum members that have had issues with the fastrack turnouts causing problems with sidings interfering with the DCS signal that I have participated in the discussion.

Typically most do not experience problems, like Pine Creek RR with sidings. Haven't heard of any mainline signal degradation situations.

No, don't make it more difficult than it has to be. Make the first track of the siding after the turn out or after you curve it to parallel the 1 3/8" (6-12073) track or the 5" (6-12060). Then, wire the toggle switch in place of the jumper of the center rail.

If you are using 072, 060 or an 072 wye, the fitter track on the turnout has a jumper for the center rail.

Sorry for scribble notation.

EDIT: If you need crimp connectors for the terminal, they are .110 quick disconnect terminals. You can get a few for a quick job at Advance Auto. Otherwise, order some off of eBay.

Since Fastrack switches take so little power, I power them directly from track power.  If you replace the power strap with the choke as I illustrated above, that addresses any issue with the switch impacting the DCS signal.

Berg, wire the hot from tiu red output thru toggle switch to center rail.  Ground from tiu black output to outside rails.

Berg,

On Tuesday, I posted:

Since you lose control when you run an engine into a siding, I'd suggest checking to see if you accidentally reversed the wires to the rails.

 

The RED terminal from the TIU output should go to the center rail while the BLACK output terminal should go to an outside rail. If reversed, the engine will not respond to any DCS commands.

Have you tried this yet?

Barry,

    I think he will find that he has them reversed and that is his actual problem, you are probably right in the money, my post about Jim Barrett's back shop wiring segment, was meant to give him the same information.  You know me I like the visual instruction stuff! Some day I would love for you to make a Video Instruction book of your DCS O Gauge Companion Book, probably sell so many of them you would never have to work another day in your life.

PCRR/Dave

If the red and black wires were reversed on the siding, but not on the mainline, he'd get a dead short when a train went over the junction.  If they were also reversed on the mainline, then as Barry says, "the engine will not respond to any DCS commands."

Note what Berg said:  "As for the way i wired mine, I think i just picked up the ground from the main line, and ran the center rail to the switch, and then from switch to power, but not sure it is from TIU, may be from transformer."  If the siding toggles were wired direct from the transformer rather than the TIU, that would account for his problem.