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Well...$6.35..at least that what I paid!!!! Thanks to OGR Forum sponsor Trainz....I have added 8 scale box cars to my fleet. They are all vintage KMT cars with die cast trucks, wheels and couplers. The wheels look like they have never been on track. Paint perfect too.

My question is what year about were these manufactured?? Other than no corner steps....rolling by they stand up well with current stock.  Thanks for any info!

 

KMT8

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DAVE FOUND THIS ON THE INTERNET

 

The most overlooked toy train maker of the 1950s

 

While almost everyone knows American Flyer and Lionel, and a lot of people have heard of Marx, there was a fourth maker of toy trains in the late 1940s and early 1950s that was much smaller, although very innovative, and today is nearly forgotten: Auburn, Indiana-based American Model Toys.

Its legacy, however, ties into virtually every major producer of O gauge trains in business today.AMT tended to take more risks than Lionel, and its cars were slightly larger, slightly closer to scale, and well-made. Its beginnings predate World War II, when Jack Ferris, a tool and die maker, designed trains the way his son liked them. Initially selling its products to other companies, Ferris founded his company in 1948 after producing a set of aluminum passenger cars that could negotiate Lionel track. Their realism and style was unmatched by anything Lionel produced for several years.

Eventually Lionel caught up, and AMT survived by finding weaknesses in Lionel’s product line and producing models that filled those weaknesses, contenting itself as an aftermarket producer who would sell its items to Lionel’s customers. In 1952, AMT started producing box cars in the latest, most colorful paint schemes they could find in use by real railroads, and made them to more realistic proportions than Lionel. The next year, Lionel responded with its famous 6464 boxcars, which were better than anything it had produced before, but still did not match AMT’s realism.

The following year, AMT decided to produce a model of a diesel locomotive, which also permitted them to sell train sets for the first time.

 

Demand wasn’t as high as expected, and in 1954, AMT reorganized and changed its name to Auburn Model Trains. Although Auburn’s offerings are highly regarded today, they were not very popular, and by the autumn of 1954, Auburn sold out to Kusan, a plastics and toy company based in Nashville, Tennessee.

Kusan produced train sets from the AMT tooling, as well new designs of their own, largely with atomic and military themes. Kusan is also credited with making the first O gauge trains that could run on both 2-rail and 3-rail track (an idea MTH would rehash some 40 years later). But the market had peaked in 1954, and Kusan, dissatisfied with its share in a declining market, ceased production in 1960.

Kusan then sold its tooling to a hobbyist named Andy Kriswaulis (or Kriswalus) in Endicott, New York, who operated as Kris Model Trains, or KMT. Kriswaulis only produced rolling stock, not locomotives. After Kriswaulis’ death on Sept. 6, 1990, KMT dissolved and much of the tooling was sold to Williams Electric Trains, a small Maryland-based toymaker who had begun reproducing Lionel’s prewar tinplate equipment in the late 1960s. Coincidentally, Williams employed a contractor by the name of Mike Wolf (who would go on to found MTH Electric Trains). Williams soon decided to change focus, selling the tinplate tooling to Wolf, and concentrating its efforts on 1950s-style trains.

(Wolf would then work as a subcontractor to Lionel, before a disagreement led him to go off on his own and found MTH.)

The remainder of the AMT/Kusan/KMT tooling went to K-Line, a North Carolina-based toymaker who had bought much of Marx’s tooling when Marx dissolved in 1978 and was using it to produce inexpensive trains that competed with Lionel’s entry-level offerings. Like Williams, K-Line used the old AMT/Kusan/KMT tooling to produce rolling stock that directly competed with Lionel at higher ends of the marketplace.

A relic of the Kusan era, a small, nonprototypical (but realistic-looking enough to be convincing) switcher ended up at Williams. Nicknamed the “Beep” (for Baby Geep), Williams manufactured it briefly but resold the tooling to Ready Made Toys, a company that subcontracted for Taylor Made Trucks, who had gained a license to put the Lionel logo on die-cast vehicles. In 2001, RMT used the Beep tooling to produce a Lionel-logoed mini-locomotive, which TMT placed on a freight truck. But when collectors realized the body could be removed from the semi-permanently attached chassis on the truck bed and placed on a Beep chassis, making a powered non-Lionel Lionel locomotive, Lionel revoked TMT’s license. This RMT/TMT Beep remains the only Lionel-logoed locomotive ever produced by and marketed by someone other than Lionel

You're the one who got the Pacemaker cars - I was in early on those, but ended up getting the lot with the blue L&N car (I can sell those all day long for $40 where I live) - I almost make back the entire purchase/postage price selling that one car.

 

The AMT dies have served several manufacturers well.  Jack Ferris was an innovative guy, and beat Lionel to the punch with aluminum passenger cars and the nearly scale boxcar which graces the top of the thread.  KMT in Franklin (Nashville suburb) TN picked up the dies when Ferris decided to get out of the toy train business.  KMT added an 0-27 sized line (those cars have also lived a long life as well).  

Last edited by MTN

My father got to know Andy Kriswalus, soon after he bought the KMT tooling, and had Andy custom decorate some KMT boxcars for his work as a salesman for Wheaton Glass.  He did most of them to just have for personal enjoyment, but he also had some custom decorated as gifts for his glass-buying customers, like Avon Products and others.

KMT Custom Run Boxcar- Wheaton Glass #1

KMT Custom Run Boxcar- Wheaton Glass #2

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Last edited by Steve
Originally Posted by MTN:

You're the one who got the Pacemaker cars - I was in early on those, but ended up getting the lot with the blue L&N car (I can sell those all day long for $40 where I live) - I almost make back the entire purchase/postage price selling that one car.

 

The AMT dies have served several manufacturers well.  Jack Ferris was an innovative guy, and beat Lionel to the punch with aluminum passenger cars and the the nearly scale boxcar which graces the top of the thread.  KMT in Franklin (Nashville suburb) TN picked up the dies when Ferris decided to get out of the toy train business.  KMT added an 0-27 sized line (those cars have also lived a long life as well).  

You paid less than me!!! I wanted that lot too.....so be glad I'm leaving on a cross country train trip soon.....and figured I better not bid!!! Glad an OGR'er got them!

Originally Posted by AMCDave:
Originally Posted by Allan E:

I was lucky enough to go on a tour of the Kusan plant in Nashville and came away with a Santa Fe freight F unit and a Santa Fe reefer and boxcar.  No question they were ahead of Lionel. 

 

Allan

Cool! through what years did they produce in Nashville???

Approximately 1955 to somewhere around 1960 (the AMT trains went out of production earlier than Kusan's K-Series 0-27 train line).   Kusan moved some of the molds to Mexico and produced K-Series trains in Mexican roadnames - those are tough to track down without paying a premium...

Last edited by MTN

A whole string of the Pacemaker cars would be impressive - add in the AMT and Kusan/KMT produced cars (and Williams has probably also produced one/several) and the train of AMT family boxcars would be even longer!   

 

As to the best boxcar bargain ending the year purchase, AMCDave noted the lot of 8 similar cars I picked up was even less than he paid ($35 + $16.49 postage) - good thing he had to watch the pennies for his trip...    

Originally Posted by Moonman:

dave,

What towns are the Lehigh Valley RR boxcar. I was just on a train ride on some of formerly their track. Saw their letters on an old abutment.

Carl:

 

The Lehigh Valley box car, Number 97455, with the map was painted at the Sayre shops in celebration of the railroad's 100th Anniversary. It was used as a rolling advertisement and did not see revenue service in this scheme as the doors on one side of the car were welded shut to provide a better area for the decoration. A photo of the prototype is below. Assuming the model is painted correctly, this picture should answer your question about the points shown on the car.

 

Bob

 

LVMAPCAR

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L.I. Train... "But when collectors realized the body could be removed from the semi-permanently attached chassis on the truck bed and placed on a Beep chassis, making a powered non-Lionel Lionel locomotive, Lionel revoked TMT’s license. This RMT/TMT Beep remains the only Lionel-logoed locomotive ever produced by and marketed by someone other than Lionel".

 

The above excerpt from TCA Western Division publication is not completely true...Just to set the record straight...Lionel did NOT revoke TMT/Taylor Made Trucks' license when BEEP type non-powered diesel on a flatbed truck was offered. Lionel was very happy with all the TMT Lionel-inspired products. Upon expiration, the license renewal was not requested by TMT as the company was going to close with retirement of 2 principals. I was the Vice-President of TMT at that time and when I then started RMT, Lionel offered me the license. 3 additional trucks were offered...all diecast rather than plastic of the TMT era...car carrier truck with 3 Lionel logoed Chevrolet Corvette convertibles, a 1955 Chevrolet Cameo pickup and then a Ford F-150 pickup.   

 

I have always been proud to have designed those Lionel/TMT trucks...BEEP-Tank Car-Operating Helicopter Car and Caboose.

 

Yes they are true Lionel collectibles!

 

From TCA Email newsmagazine in 2003...

Ready Made Toys
By Bob Mintz

There are some new train items coming down the track from Ready Made Toys, a new company having a significant history with toy trains.

RMT has been granted a license from Lionel to produce toy truck vehicles carrying the Lionel trademark. These quality vehicles are made of die-cast and plastic with authentic Lionel colors and trademarks.

The first release is a set of 2 die cast pickup trucks, a 1955 Chevy Stepside and a 1997 Ford F-150.

Each truck features a very well detailed die-cast body with crisp painting and lettering. Opening doors, cab interior and soft rubber tires complete these nifty layout accessories. Packaged individually in a Lionel style collector's window box, each truck is mounted on a display base (easily removed). Sold only as a set for only $19.95, it is a really nifty train item for any Lionel collector.

Second release is a Lionel licensed die-cast auto carrier truck that comes complete with a set of 4 die-cast 1957 Chevrolet convertibles...All items are 1/43rd scale for full compatibility with your Lionel toy train layout. The car carrier truck is painted Lionel orange/blue and is lettered for “Lionelville Auto Transport” with appropriate Lionel markings on both truck cab and trailer. Each Corvette is specially painted in a first-time-ever orange/blue color combination with the Lionel trademark on each rear trunk lid. The “Limited Edition” car carrier truck is also serially numbered for added collectibility. The complete set of car carrier truck and the 4 Corvette cars is packaged in a special Lionel collector's box and has a suggested retail price of only $39.95! The Corvette cars are NOT available separately. Future issues are planned that will continue this new collectible truck series.

************************************************************

 

Thanks.

 

Walter/RMT

 

PS: A little known fact...all the flatbed trucks with Lionel logoed railcars and BEEP rode on rails attached to the flatbed body. These O-gauge rails were from K-line!

The Lionel/TMT trucks and K-line train products were made at same factory in China.

 

 

tmt lionel

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Last edited by Walter Matuch
Originally Posted by Ted Hikel:

Six Dollar scale box cars

 

That is a great price. 

 

But what scale? 

 

If those cars are 1/48th scale of what prototype are they a model?

 

 

 

Plenty debate about weather these are scale or not. I only buy what I feel like are scale cars now.

These scale out to 40'6" long with the other dimensions very close to a PRR X-29 car...a tiny bit bigger. So they work for me....at this price. If I had the $60 each I'd have all Atlas Master cars.....but these rolling by a speed work for me!

Just going through some boxes in the garage attic and found a 1957 Kusan-Auburn catalog (must of gotten it when I toured the factory) featuring "Sensational New "K" Series Trains for '57".  New features for 1957 include "Traction Tred, authentic 2-rail track, operating headlights, smooth DC power and exact colors and markings..."

 

The 2-rail "Real" Track consists of 10 inch straights with 17 simulated wood ties (35 cents per), curved (42 1/4" diameter), remote uncoupler ("Just back over the uncoupler and stop.  No buttons to push - no complicated electric circuits to hook up") and lock on.

 

There are five FA diesels featured (Southern, MKT, MoPac, Burlington and New Haven) as well as boxcars, flat cars, tank cars, gondolas, hoppers and cabooses.

 

The catalog is a single four foot sheet folded into four sections, permitting a full sized representation of a train set.

 

Cool stuff....

 

Allan

 

Allan

Originally Posted by Ted Hikel:

Six Dollar scale box cars

 

That is a great price. 

 

But what scale? 

 

If those cars are 1/48th scale of what prototype are they a model?

 

 

 

Re the question of scale, attached is a scan I’ve posted here before of an AMT ad from 1952 when AMT first made box cars from the tooling subsequently used by Kusan, Kris Model Trains, Frank’s Roundhouse, Williams and the apparently still unidentified mystery company that made the box cars for Menards last year.  The cars at that time were advertised as full O scale models of a 40-foot prototype box car.  These cars are slightly longer and higher than a Lionel post-war 6464-series box car.

 

Bill

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Originally Posted by Allan E:

Just going through some boxes in the garage attic and found a 1957 Kusan-Auburn catalog (must of gotten it when I toured the factory) featuring "Sensational New "K" Series Trains for '57".  New features for 1957 include "Traction Tred, authentic 2-rail track, operating headlights, smooth DC power and exact colors and markings..."

 

The 2-rail "Real" Track consists of 10 inch straights with 17 simulated wood ties (35 cents per), curved (42 1/4" diameter), remote uncoupler ("Just back over the uncoupler and stop.  No buttons to push - no complicated electric circuits to hook up") and lock on.

 

There are five FA diesels featured (Southern, MKT, MoPac, Burlington and New Haven) as well as boxcars, flat cars, tank cars, gondolas, hoppers and cabooses.

 

The catalog is a single four foot sheet folded into four sections, permitting a full sized representation of a train set.

 

Cool stuff....

 

Allan

 

Allan

Allan:

 

Be advised that the box cars in that 1957 Kusan-Auburn catalog were the newly introduced all plastic non-scale O27-size K-series box cars rather than the scale 40-ft box cars which were made from the tooling Kusan had purchased from AMT and are the subject of this thread. 

 

That was the first Kusan catalog after they quit making those scale box cars and was the end of the line for those cars until after Andy Kriswalus bought the tooling and resumed production of the cars in 1968 under the name Kris Model Trains.

 

There was a complete scan of that catalog in the Yahoo AMT/Kusan/KMT Group but those files may not have survived Yahoo’s format conversion of early last year.   Here’s a link: AMT_Kusan_KMT_Kris_Williams_Trains - Yahoo Groups

 

Bill

Plenty debate about weather these are scale or not.

 

Examining a car leaves little to debate.

 

Theses models have Murphy rectangular panel roofs and a sort of stylized version of 4/5 Dreadnought or improved Dreadnought ends.  Those features are consistent with the common 1937 A.A.R. standard box cars constructed in the late 1930s into the 1940s by the tens of thousands.

 

The add that Bill attached above (Thanks Bill ) is an interesting period piece both for what it does and does not say.

 

The add states that the cars

 

“Conform to A.A.R. Standards”

 

and that

 

“All are scaled to meet the standards of the American Association of Railroads for a 40-foot box car.”

 

That sounds pretty official.  BUT the body that sets standards for real railroads is the Association of American Railroads.  So to what if any standard does the model really comply?  Probably none.  No specific standard is referenced.

 

Also notice that while the add says that the cares are "scaled" it doesn't say 1/48 scale or any other specific proportion.

 

Compared to a 1937 A.A.R. box car the cars are off in width and height.  Put one next to an MTH or Atlas 1937 A.A.R boxcar model and the dimensional differences are visually obvious, no calipers required.

 

So one could call these cars scalish, or say that they are close to the overall dimensions of a an older boxcar like a USRA, X-29 or 1932 A.R.A design. You could also recognize them as one of the better models made for the toy train market tooled in the 1950s. But they are not a scale model of any specific prototype.

 

They can blend in with scale equipment and are a heck of a value for many operators a six dollars.

 

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Ted Hikel:
 

So one could call these cars scalish, or say that they are close to the overall dimensions of a an older boxcar like a USRA, X-29 or 1932 A.R.A design. You could also recognize them as one of the better models made for the toy train market tooled in the 1950s. But they are not a scale model of any specific prototype.

 

They can blend in with scale equipment and are a heck of a value for many operators a six dollars.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree 100% they are not 'scale' models of any real car.  I do feel they qualify as scale sized cars for those that layout is set late 1940's -50's.  When I went to buying scale size equipment I pulled a Atlas scale 40 ft box car and placed a then WbB next to it. VERY close to the same size and why I call them X-29 like........and yes they will look good rolling by and for the money happy to have them.

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