Video: (New Info 1-17) Sunset 3rd Rail UP 844 and UP Train of Tomorrow

Wow , That paint looks great. Thanks for Posting .

Bill,

 

Nice video!

 

Very nice video. Even though you have the cars in the correct "order", you might want to double check the first two domes, as the people appear to be looking towards the rear, instead if where they are going.

 

Thanks for posting.

Love it.  Kicking myself for not getting this one!

 

Thanks for the video, it truly is beautiful.

Thanks, all.  It was nice seeing you at the modular layout, Allan!  Sorry I missed the seeing the log train.

Very pretty set!

Loved it, thanks for sharing!

I think titling your videos with something like: Sunset Models 3rd rail UP 844 and Train of Tomorrow would make them easier to find on youtube, I usually type in the brand I wanna look for and use the "upload date" search tool so it displays the latest videos of engines from any brand.

Bill- thanks for posting, I really enjoyed the video.  Quite a train!

Nice video.

Yes, very nice. Thanks for posting the video.

Very nice train, be sure to enjoy it. Anyone receive the Blue version and video it?

Nice models all the way around

Wow just beautiful...thanks for posting it.

Thanks all. 

 

Santiago, good input.  Done deal.  Topic name changed.  Thanks.

 

 

Bill, I'm sorry I meant the title on Youtube not on the forum. I loved it, you can appreciate the cars in full 1080p! Would love to see one video of your 3rd Rail FT's!

I think the First Car, "Dream Cloud" Is facing backwards to the other cars, in the GM TOT consist. I base this on the pictures below. We did the interiors per this information. I think it is correct. The seats in thedrawings always face to the short end of the car roof.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Scott, thanks for the clarification.  More closely examining the pictures and diagrams shows you are - of course -  correct.  The model is correct.

 

The picture on p 382 of the referenced book shows that the first car, the Star Dust coach, indeed was oriented "backwards" as compared with the other three when first entering revenue service as the Astra Dome is closer to the "back end" of the car.  Domes on the other three cars are closer to the "front" of each car and of the consist.  And  all four cars have the name plates at the head or front end. The dome seats always face the short end and the stairs are at the long end. 

 

A picture on p.378 shows the train in it's original blue livery.  Same results as above.  Same orientation and order of cars. 

 

So, for some reason someone decided to run that car "reversed" in the beginning.  Maybe they thought the rearward view from the leading car's Astra Dome was better than looking at smoky/dirty top of the E7A diesel engine?

 

 

BTW the Sky View had the distinction of being "the only dome diner in service anywhere" and served 18 passengers in the dome. p.379.

I seriously doubt that, as every dome car I have ever ridden, everybody wanted to be "looking forward" at the oncoming scenery.

Here is a picture of the UP Version with first car oriented backwards as well.

 

The clue are the 3 lower windows on the left side of the train.

 

 

Scott doesn't a guy just pull his hair out proving facts to the sidewalk superintendents. There is always an "Expert" to prove what you have or have done; right or not is wrong in his educated all knowing "expertise" opinion. ;-)

By the way a VERY wise man once told me if you break down "expert" - "EX" meaning former and "SPERT" meaning small drip.

Right!?

=)

True story and I've heard similar recently with a pro-painter locally.

Rip Grande 4 stripe F7 set custom finished by a DSMR member in the 1980's. A "expert" pointed out they were the wrong orange. Incorrect and totally off the mark.

-this is true- the paint was the last gallon left at Burnham left over from 1966

Hi Bill • Well done video, enjoyed seeing the Train of Tomorrow in the UP Road name. Along with the Steam Power, UP.
• Cheers from the Detroit & Mackinac Railway

Since my Amateur Theory I was summarily shot dead without a blindfold,  I'm still waiting for some "ex-spert" to fill us in on why the first car was backwards during it's GM days and also some time later at the beginning at least of it's UP days. 

 

Theory II.  The GM T of T Project Manager was dyslexic.

 

Theory III.  The car shop guys put the name plate at the wrong end and the TOT Project Mgr said, "what the hell, just run it backwards. Nobody will ever notice,"  And this remained the case until Scott Mann did the O scale model. 

 

Theory IV.  (fill in the blanks).

 

 

Scott, yes. And I have several other pictures which agree.  On both sides of the cars.  The left side being the most distinctive on the coach.  And the interior pics show the stairwells in the models are "right". Etc. etc.  Rock solid. This extends to the other cars, too.

 

However we got to this point in the topic, I'm pleased that we uncovered this enriching anomaly ("correct" but backwards 1st car in a 4 "correct" car set).  It has added to the pleasure of owning what I consider an outstanding and unique set at a very attractive price point.

Bill,

 

According to one Bob Stone, a GM assistant manager on the original ToT -

 

"Traditionally cars next to the locomotive have their dummy end forward, for the safety of the passengers, to prevent access to the locomotive through the door at the dummy end. Star Dust is designed the same way, with the dummy end forward. However, for exhibition purposes, GM has decided to carry the car vestibule end forward in order to provide an exit at the forward end of the train."

 

Stone goes on to note that the dummy end of a car is the end without a vestibule but with a door allowing access to the rest of the train. For those who are interested, there is much more info regarding this unusual car orientation on page 86 of Ric Morgan's book, The Train of Tomorrow, published by the Indiana University Press in 2007.

 

 

Os3r.  Excellent.  Thanks for the scholarly input.

Sheesh Austin Bill I meant no harm to you by comments. I was just saying it's tough to be involved in research. So many guys you NOT included can be real hard ***** about their opinions. Believe me there are a few here right at home in old OGR land.

I'm sorry man. Just saying. ;-) it's tough always defending your thesis and or research. At least a PhD gets credit on coursework when you do. Ha!

Bill thanks for sharing the video.

 

Ron

Erik, thanks, man.  But, I took no offense from your comment.  I thought it was aimed at "others" because nobody has ever considered me an expert!  Likewise, my theory's I, II and III were meant in fun  - to show that I am a lightweight when it comes to all of this.  Not aimed at you but rather at the hope that someone would come through with a credible answer--  which Os3r did.  

 

You deliver a lot of rich content; videos and pictures and words, here on the OGR Forum with a lot of positive energy and I really appreciate it.

 

I'm hoping all parties will agree that -- on balance -- this turned out to be an interesting and positive discussion with a good outcome. That outcome being a better understanding of the Train of Tomorrow in it's infancy and the conclusion that Scott/3rd Rail did a very nice job on his Train of Tomorrow project (which was delivered in a responsive, timely manner I might add). 

And thanks to all of you above for your positive comments. It encourages me-  and I gotta believe - others to take the time to setup and photograph/video our O scale stuff. This includes positive, constructive criticism from which we can all benefit.

 

 

One of the Forum members brought this to my attention as well and his research substantiates that Scott has this correct. No need to doubt the accuracy of these beauties.

 

Again, super job Scott.

Has  anyone given the correct order of the cars?

Norm

The info below is based on what I have found in the big, thick book, "The Union Pacific Streamliners" by Harold E Ranks and William W. Kratville. Fifth printing, 1992.  pp 378 - 389 on the Train of Tomorrow.  I quote them because I am anything but an expert on UP passenger trains.

 

Based on this info and on Scott Mann's inputs I believe the 4 car Sunset 3rd Rail UP set I have accurately portrays the initial order of the cars and the direction each was facing and the major features match the pictures and the spec's. It's a beautiful set.   I'll leave it to others to count rivets. 

 

(Note: My UP E7A engine in the video, Cab 998, came from a previous Sunset E7 project.  So, I did not order the T of T E7A engine with the correct UP 988 cab nr.    Just the 4 cars.)

 

The correct order of the train set; engine and four cars, in the initial GM blue livery and later --in the early days of the UP ownership -- in the yellow/gray livery -- is:

 

Power Unit  EMD 765 in GM livery becoming E7A Engine 988 in UP yellow/gray livery

Star Dust dome coach (dome seats facing the rear)

Sky View dome diner (4 person tables in the dome)

Dream Cloud dome sleeper (dome seats facing the head end)

Moon Glow dome observation  (dome seats facing the head end)

 

Name plates are at the head end of each car.

 

This is the order in which they are shown in the video (names blurry, sorry.)

 

This was the initial train set.  Very soon after entering revenue service the train was expanded and changed in many ways  So, one can find lots of different configurations on down the timeline. 

 

 

Thanks Bill for the information. Very helpful.

You're welcome P T Collector.  I also placed these specifics in my initial l post at the top of the topic so late comers  won't have to wade thru all the posts to get to the specifics.  Thanks all for your help and encouragement on this topic.  I learned a lot.

Here is a photo of the GM T of T during its shakedown and initial publicity trip from Chicago to French Lick, IN before its national tour:

 

 

 

The photo is from the "Streamliner Memories" website piece on "Touring with the Train of Tomorrow" in this link: 

 

http://streamlinermemories.info/?p=950

 

What the car is immediately behind the E7A, I don't know.  The photo shows that it is the only car running long-end (relative to the dome) forward among the four car consist.

 

And the "three windows" car Scott referenced in the UP consist photo is also shown in the GM consist.