Barry Broskowitz posted:That problem is a year or more away. Live for today.
God forbid that we should plan a bit ahead! 
I use the wifi app mostly but would not give up the handheld remote. I love to let the grandkids run the trains with the app, BUT, it sure is easy to keep my thumb on the emergency stop button on the handheld remote while watching them have fun... Just in case....
EddieZ
gunrunnerjohn posted
Sorry Bob, that's a non starter for me! The great sound and smoke effects really add to the experience, at least they do for me and most of the folks I run across.
Most 3-railers will probably agree, not so much for 2-trailers. At least on smoke.
Sound will come in time for BPRC, and by that time I'll be well ahead of the curve.
Barry Broskowitz posted:John,
That problem is a year or more away. Live for today.Doesn't work that well when the remotes are discontinued and not available, note the subject of the thread.
Some smart person will specialize in supporting/repairing the 10,000-plus-or-minus a couple, remotes already out there ;-) Someone is already ordering a lot of replacement wheels from MTH, if/when they can get hold of Midge, or get a call returned.
Next up, controlling the trains hands-free with brain waves.....
Kerrigan posted:Someone is already ordering a lot of replacement wheels from MTH, if/when they can get hold of Midge, or get a call returned.
Got that covered, got some on the last order. Thinking about getting a couple more... 
I figure they'll be like gold in about three-four years.
I haven't used my remote since the Premium App was released. Get the occasional glitch, but the big thing at AGHR is that the range of operation is dramatically improved using WiFi instead of 900MHz (the TIUs are located at various spots on a long building but the router is in the middle and reaches everywhere -- even the parking lot).
From my own experience, I think the remote and wifi premium app both stink. The only remote I bought worked for 1 night and then a wire came off the wheel and so I can't scroll between menus. I have to send it back to get it fixed.
I figured I'd wait for the premium app to come out and just buy that and the wifi unit instead - invest in the future. So I did and purchased the 9 pin to usb cable needed to fit my TIU (older working TIU - not Rev L but also not Rev G) and an extra MTH 750 brick to provide dedicated power to the TIU. Premium app won't recognize the TIU at the moment. I've read some of the fixes here online to no avail. I'm sure it's user error.
I have purchased the ebook everyone talks about - more investment. I have both the newest wifi version and the prior version. During my summer vacation I intend to read through the 250+ pages to confirm that I am a moron for not being able to figure out how to get all of these pieces working together.
Once I do that and get a repaired remote back from MTH (another few $$s spent), I'll be in a better position to say which I prefer. For now, I like the CAB2 that is running my Legacy engines the most. It worked right out of the box after following the 3 paragraphs of directions on page 6 of the owners manual.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Barry Broskowitz posted:That problem is a year or more away. Live for today.God forbid that we should plan a bit ahead!
Actually, Mike did plan ahead, just not for the outcome those of us (myself included) who like a physical remote's feel with buttons would like.
While he did not state at the time that the 2017-18 time frame would be the end for the DCS remote, he did state quite openly at least 1-1 1/2 years ago at the TCA Museum talk that with the "wonderful" new app capabilities, he would never invest in producing another physical remote again.
It might be a little more in the public eye now (there are probably a few more active Forum members reading this thread than were present at that presentation), but he hasn't been hiding it. He just now has a rough end time frame planned (assuming Barry's assessment of "a year or more away" is accurate, which I have no reason to question).
-Dave
Any company that has an ability to produce an APP the works well and can out perform the hardware handheld would be nuts to continue to produce the hardware. As much as I prefer the hardware remote, I also understand the business and engineering implications.
I also suspect Lionel will follow suit soon as well but I believe their APP will need to be reworked, LCS properly promoted, and the price point adjusted drastically.
Waddy posted:I don't agree with the idea that time and technology march on and old stuff doesn't need to be supported any longer. Anybody remember the now defunct Sega game systems? They didn't think supporting previous systems was important, either. The model train hobby is a fairly small group of people who run everything from pre-war to modern. Because the hobby has such a long history and much of the equipment still operable, it would seem to be in the best interests of the manufacturers to make their new systems as backward compatible as possible, and to offer as many options as possible.
To say that young people are so infatuated with their cell phones they won't do model trains unless they can be run from their phones is rather insulting to these same young people. The actual method of operation, I believe, has little to do with new people getting into this hobby. They either want model trains or they don't. Frankly, the cost of getting into and expanding on the initial investment is probably the biggest hurdle; model trains ain't cheap. BTW; I see lots of young people every weekend flying their drones, which have become immensely popular. And every person I see is using a handheld remote control to fly those things.
My Cable company and its supplier could just provide non working phones and replace its remotes!
MartyE posted:Any company that has an ability to produce an APP the works well and can out perform the hardware handheld would be nuts to continue to produce the hardware. As much as I prefer the hardware remote, I also understand the business and engineering implications.
You assume facts not in evidence, "can outperform" is in the eyes of the beholder, it certainly won't be true for many folks.
It's not hard to understand trying to avoid building one part of your system and letting the customer supply that part, you can certainly save money on production! However, just tossing the responsibility for that piece of your product over the wall into the vast unknown may end up not being as good a business decision as you are assuming. The marketplace will make that decision after the deed is done. 
I must say that I am not sure any of this really helps to get new people into the hobby. I know that the younger generation is more tech minded and your argument might be that would spur interest, but I believe if they are interested in technology, they will not funnel that into trains. There are too many other high tech things to get into and spend one's money on.
I also believe that you have just added another layer of complexity and cost. If I had not already been hooked from my original trains from the 50's, then enamored by the sounds and control enabled by the systems presented in the 90's, I would look at the cost of the trains themselves, then see the cost of an operating system, power source, a wifi unit, and then add to that a device not included with the manufacturer of the system and would balk at even beginning. Cost would be a major factor...all of that seems overwhelming to me. I have gotten into it because it was little steps at a time. If a hobby store sales person would be asked what I needed to start running these trains and he would go through and show me each item, my response would be "so, where are the drones with cameras? I think I will try one of those."
Rick
gunrunnerjohn posted:The marketplace will make that decision after the deed is done.
Or as in most cases, the manufacturer will make that decision for you. In MTH's case and to a large extent Lionel's, there is really no where else to go.
Just one question ..Is MTH really doing away with the DCS remote? How do you know for sure??
Gregg posted:Just one question ..Is MTH really doing away with the DCS remote? How do you know for sure??
Andy E from MTH stated this at the DCS Users Group Meeting at York. He said they would stop producing it most likely by years end.
John,
I can assure you that, from a responsiveness perspective, the DCS App absolutely performs better than does the DCS Remote, as regards speed of executing a command and wireless range of operation. The need to more closely "look at" the app's screen is, perhaps, offset by MTH's ability to make improvements to the app, to make it increasingly intuitive.
Further, the real opportunity will come in the future, as MTH will be able to expand DCS beyond the capabilities of the existing remote. Investment need only be made as regards enhancing the app's software as opposed to developing a new piece of remote hardware, along with the new software that it would require.
Regardless, I agree that the market will make the ultimate determination of the wisdom of MTH's decisions.
He said they would stop producing it most likely by years end.
To add to Marty's statement, it's anticipated that stocks of DCS Remotes from that production run would last approx. 1-2 years.
"I also suspect Lionel will follow suit soon as well but I believe their APP will need to be reworked, LCS properly promoted, and the price point adjusted drastically."
I see no evidence, as yet, that Lionel is abandoning a physical remote. Indeed, it seems quite the opposite. They have three currently in production. The LionChief and LionChief+ remotes which come with every set or separate sale loco in those product lines, and the Legacy remote for separate sale for those who want the advanced features and additional complexity (a small minority of their customers, I'd guess). All Lionel locos will have the option for Bluetooth control by a phone or tablet app.
Best of both worlds in my eyes. No need for wi-fi, additional equipment of any sort, or increased complexity if you don't want it. Couldn't ask for a better comparison of which marketing approach (these two extremes) will work best. Lionel's approach certainly is less expensive for the consumer who doesn't want the capabilities of wi-fi, layout control or other advanced features. This approach is also not expensive for Lionel if they can sell the universal remote with Bluetooth capacity for under $50.
Landsteiner posted:"I also suspect Lionel will follow suit soon as well but I believe their APP will need to be reworked, LCS properly promoted, and the price point adjusted drastically."
I see no evidence, as yet, that Lionel is abandoning a physical remote. Indeed, it seems quite the opposite. They have three currently in production. The LionChief and LionChief+ remotes which come with every set or separate sale loco in those product lines, and the Legacy remote for separate sale for those who want the advanced features and additional complexity (a small minority of their customers, I'd guess). All Lionel locos will have the option for Bluetooth control by a phone or tablet app.
I didn't say they are but IMO they eventually will. Why produce hardware if you can let the consumer purchase hardware, by the means in way of a smart device, in which Lionel does not have to produce at all and makes updates and fixes via an APP update.
