Rusty posted a comparison pic a while back of three S scale F unit models.
IMHO, in the "head on" shot, the AM FP7's nose/windows were the closest (in respect to looking "right") of the three models depicted. Granted, the detail level was nowhere near the other models... BUT... it's amazing what some brass wire and detail parts can do! I fully intend to have an AM FP7 on my shelves for eventual conversion into a Frisco FP7.
Andre
quote:Rusty posted a comparison pic a while back of three S scale F unit models.
IMHO, in the "head on" shot, the AM FP7's nose/windows were the closest (in respect to looking "right") of the three models depicted. Granted, the detail level was nowhere near the other models... BUT... it's amazing what some brass wire and detail parts can do! I fully intend to have an AM FP7 on my shelves for eventual conversion into a Frisco FP7.
I didn't see that photo, but I have seen the AM FP7 on several occasions and it is a nice model that can be detailed to make an outstanding locomotive.
In fact, I would consider the AM FP7 to be a landmark locomotive for S scale, comparable to the Atlas RS-3 in HO and N scale.
Jeff C
Hoo-boy, I had to hop in the Way-Back Machine to 2001 for those. It was actually the AM FP7, E8 and SHS F3 in the Yahoo S Scale photo section languishing for quite a while. (Shot with a camera that used a real, live floppy disc!)
Here they are:
I would also agree that the AM FP7 was a landmark locomotve. AM in general dragged S kicking and screaming out of the cloud of obscurity and helped to shake off the American Flyer only identification of the scale for the model railroading populace.
Till then, S Scalers in general were very proud of the fact that S was considered "the scratchbuilder's scale."
I never agreed with that "selling point." There were scratchbuilders in other scales doing quite well.
Rusty
Here they are:
I would also agree that the AM FP7 was a landmark locomotve. AM in general dragged S kicking and screaming out of the cloud of obscurity and helped to shake off the American Flyer only identification of the scale for the model railroading populace.
Till then, S Scalers in general were very proud of the fact that S was considered "the scratchbuilder's scale."
I never agreed with that "selling point." There were scratchbuilders in other scales doing quite well.
Rusty
quote:In fact, I would consider the AM FP7 to be a landmark locomotive for S scale, comparable to the Atlas RS-3 in HO and N scale.
I agree! It was the genesis of the current "state of the art" S scale plastic locomotive.
As for that photo: I saved a copy of it, as well as the side view. Hopefully Rusty won't mind if I repost them here:
EDIT: 10/03/13 Seeing as the photos illustrating the F/E unit nose differences were lost, I have re-inserted them in this post for illustrative purposes.
As you can see, the nose and windows are very nicely proportioned on the AM unit. Better than the SHS unit, IMHO. All the little inexpensive AM unit needs would be some wire grabs, windshield wipers, and a few other minor details and you will have an EXCELLENT F unit.
EDIT #2:
Rusty, I see quite a bit of CB&Q in your pics. I take it that's one of your favorite roads? Owing to it's KC location and some of my memories thereof, it has become a significant road to me, too.
Andre
quote:Originally posted by laming:
Rusty, I see quite a bit of CB&Q in your pics. I take it that's one of your favorite roads? Owing to it's KC location and some of my memories thereof, it has become a significant road to me, too.
Andre
Hey, Andre.
Yep, the Q is one of my favorites. When I was 10, my family moved to the Chicago western suburbs (Deep in the Land of the Burlingtons, Berwyn, to be exact) and we lived a block and a half away from the Burlington.
We were also a half block away from the IC's Davenport line but train frequency was nowhere near what the Burlington's was.
Plus, I could catch occasional glimses of 4960 and 5632 on the Q.
But, I would say my first love will always be the Santa Fe. Partially because of my Lionel roots, but also for a trip we took with my dad to an American Legion convention in Calfornia when I was about 5. The train was an extra, just for the legionairs.
Rusty
Never saw that photo before but it is very interesting. You're right guys, the windshield height and shape of the AM loco does look more "right" than the SHS.
I like the thickness of the headlight openings better on the AM's and the contour of the nose just below the windshields as well. Since the SHS is white and the AM is maroon and orange it's hard to see some of the subtle differences between the two but the AM nose definitely looks more like the prototype.
E and F noses have been a problem for builders and importers for decades and remain so even today. The 1st "F" noses to get really good kudos by modelers was the HO Lubliner(sp) nose which Athearn bought and incorporated into their Genesis F line.
The 1st good "F" noses in "O" scale were offered by P&D which Atlas bought and now offers on all their Atlas "O" F units. The Lionel "scale" F-3 locos offered in the early 2000's had a really good nose as well.
But, none of them have anything on the AM nose or even the SHS nose for that matter.
Growing up in the 50's made me a covered wagon junkie and I've always had a soft spot for "F" units.
Thanks for pointing this out Andre and pulling the photos from the archives Rusty.
Butch
I like the thickness of the headlight openings better on the AM's and the contour of the nose just below the windshields as well. Since the SHS is white and the AM is maroon and orange it's hard to see some of the subtle differences between the two but the AM nose definitely looks more like the prototype.
E and F noses have been a problem for builders and importers for decades and remain so even today. The 1st "F" noses to get really good kudos by modelers was the HO Lubliner(sp) nose which Athearn bought and incorporated into their Genesis F line.
The 1st good "F" noses in "O" scale were offered by P&D which Atlas bought and now offers on all their Atlas "O" F units. The Lionel "scale" F-3 locos offered in the early 2000's had a really good nose as well.
But, none of them have anything on the AM nose or even the SHS nose for that matter.
Growing up in the 50's made me a covered wagon junkie and I've always had a soft spot for "F" units.
Thanks for pointing this out Andre and pulling the photos from the archives Rusty.
Butch
quote:Originally posted by up148:
E and F noses have been a problem for builders and importers for decades and remain so even today. The 1st "F" noses to get really good kudos by modelers was the HO Lubliner(sp) nose which Athearn bought and incorporated into their Genesis F line.
Butch
Simply for the record, the company was called Highliners. The B unit body kit was available forever, while the HOers waited, waited and waited for the A. Almost a vision of the way things are now...
The one thing I can't recall was if the A unit shell kit came out before or after Athearn's acquisition. I think it was actually after.
I remember one conversation I was having with a well respected modeler. He was going on and on about not liking F units. I finally asked him the musical question "Why not?"
The sound of crickets followed...
Rusty
Butch:
I too, have a "thing" for F units, especially the windows/nose. I think most F unit junkies do.
When I saw the AM F compared to the others, I saw a lot of potential and am looking forward to getting my first AM F.
As for the SHS F: I have an undec F3 AB set, and I will eventually need to decide if I will either live with it, or modify it. Seeing as even back in the early-mid 70's I used to modify the old HO Athearn F's windows... I'll bet I figure out something to make it a bit more "pleasing" to my eyes. I have a couple things in mind, I'll just wait to see once I'm ready to tackle the set.
Rusty:
Thought so on the Q! Seeing as you're a "Q-ball"... perhaps you can help me with a date on a couple of CB&Q events:
* The date on when the Chinese Red hood unit scheme began to appear.
* The appearance date on when the block lettered "BURLINGTON" boxcars begin to appear. I have seen both Chinese Red and lots of Boxcar Red versions of that scheme. Would like to eventually represent it on my early-mid sixties KC Lines layout.
Of course an educated guess on the above would be more than adequate.
I have some good memories of the CB&Q's switch engines in/around the North KC industrial area. In particular, their switching of the Fleming Foods warehouse. My dad owned a supermarket that was affiliated with Fleming Foods, and every now and then I would go with him to the warehouse to pick up items we were running out of (before the next truck load delivery at our store). I would often get to see the CB&Q switching the area, including Fleming Foods.
Yup, the Q is a neat road to me, too!
BTW, this has been a really fun thread. Thanks to all that are participating!
Andre
I too, have a "thing" for F units, especially the windows/nose. I think most F unit junkies do.
When I saw the AM F compared to the others, I saw a lot of potential and am looking forward to getting my first AM F.
As for the SHS F: I have an undec F3 AB set, and I will eventually need to decide if I will either live with it, or modify it. Seeing as even back in the early-mid 70's I used to modify the old HO Athearn F's windows... I'll bet I figure out something to make it a bit more "pleasing" to my eyes. I have a couple things in mind, I'll just wait to see once I'm ready to tackle the set.
Rusty:
Thought so on the Q! Seeing as you're a "Q-ball"... perhaps you can help me with a date on a couple of CB&Q events:
* The date on when the Chinese Red hood unit scheme began to appear.
* The appearance date on when the block lettered "BURLINGTON" boxcars begin to appear. I have seen both Chinese Red and lots of Boxcar Red versions of that scheme. Would like to eventually represent it on my early-mid sixties KC Lines layout.
Of course an educated guess on the above would be more than adequate.
I have some good memories of the CB&Q's switch engines in/around the North KC industrial area. In particular, their switching of the Fleming Foods warehouse. My dad owned a supermarket that was affiliated with Fleming Foods, and every now and then I would go with him to the warehouse to pick up items we were running out of (before the next truck load delivery at our store). I would often get to see the CB&Q switching the area, including Fleming Foods.
Yup, the Q is a neat road to me, too!
BTW, this has been a really fun thread. Thanks to all that are participating!
Andre
quote:Originally posted by Rusty Traque:quote:Originally posted by up148:
E and F noses have been a problem for builders and importers for decades and remain so even today. The 1st "F" noses to get really good kudos by modelers was the HO Lubliner(sp) nose which Athearn bought and incorporated into their Genesis F line.
Butch
Simply for the record, the company was called Highliners. The B unit body kit was available forever, while the HOers waited, waited and waited for the A. Almost a vision of the way things are now...
The one thing I can't recall was if the A unit shell kit came out before or after Athearn's acquisition. I think it was actually after.
I remember one conversation I was having with a well respected modeler. He was going on and on about not liking F units. I finally asked him the musical question "Why not?"
The sound of crickets followed...
Rusty
IIRC the Highliner kits came out just before Athearn bought the dies. They continued to sell kits for a while after the transfer. I think about the time Athearn did offer their Highliner units as a RTR the kits were nolonger offered.
Greg
I actually like the E unit profile and the height the pilot sits above the rail. I've heard AM's "sound" and didn't think much of it. I would use a Tsunami instead.
This has been an enjoyable thread.
This has been an enjoyable thread.
Rusty you're right......they were the Highliner kits. I think Paul Lubliner or something similar to that last name was the fellow who created the Highliners. Heck I get lots of stuff twisted around these days and it drives my wife nuts. Paul was the 1st guy to really get the F unit dimensions and contours correct or close to correct.
I wasn't in HO at the time so I only watched from the outside hoping someday, someone would do the same for O scale. Low and behold Pat @ P&D hobbies did it a few years later.
You know Andre, different paint scheme can make a difference on the appearance of the nose contours on F units. I've noticed that before looking through my EMD F Unit book.
After my last post I looked closely at my SHS F3 UP noses painted in Armour Yellow with anti-glare green on top and they look awful good....even knowing the windshield opening is too tall it look better to me in Armour Yellow. SHS did a remarkable job on these locos and captured the F unit appearance well.
Butch
I wasn't in HO at the time so I only watched from the outside hoping someday, someone would do the same for O scale. Low and behold Pat @ P&D hobbies did it a few years later.
You know Andre, different paint scheme can make a difference on the appearance of the nose contours on F units. I've noticed that before looking through my EMD F Unit book.
After my last post I looked closely at my SHS F3 UP noses painted in Armour Yellow with anti-glare green on top and they look awful good....even knowing the windshield opening is too tall it look better to me in Armour Yellow. SHS did a remarkable job on these locos and captured the F unit appearance well.
Butch
Butch:
Right you are about paint schemes in regards to changing the look of a unit. IF I went Frisco, the black would play down the openings, me thinks. IF I went KC&G, the blue may not. However, as you point out, they are darn good looking units, regardless.
John:
Yes, the ride height is nice on the E unit, and the pilot apron sits nicely. I typically lower units that sit too high. On the old HO Stewart F's, there were tits molded into the truck "bowl" area that I would shave off. It would lower them a few scale inches, enough so they didn't ride so high. As for the AM unit, I figure there would be ways to lower it if I find the ride height objectionable. In the past I have also milled the bolsters of frames that sat too high. I ain't above doing it again! Shucks, it's only time... and we got a lot of that, don't we? Don't WE????
Andre
Right you are about paint schemes in regards to changing the look of a unit. IF I went Frisco, the black would play down the openings, me thinks. IF I went KC&G, the blue may not. However, as you point out, they are darn good looking units, regardless.
John:
Yes, the ride height is nice on the E unit, and the pilot apron sits nicely. I typically lower units that sit too high. On the old HO Stewart F's, there were tits molded into the truck "bowl" area that I would shave off. It would lower them a few scale inches, enough so they didn't ride so high. As for the AM unit, I figure there would be ways to lower it if I find the ride height objectionable. In the past I have also milled the bolsters of frames that sat too high. I ain't above doing it again! Shucks, it's only time... and we got a lot of that, don't we? Don't WE????
Andre
quote:Originally posted by laming:
Rusty:
Thought so on the Q! Seeing as you're a "Q-ball"... perhaps you can help me with a date on a couple of CB&Q events:
* The date on when the Chinese Red hood unit scheme began to appear.
* The appearance date on when the block lettered "BURLINGTON" boxcars begin to appear. I have seen both Chinese Red and lots of Boxcar Red versions of that scheme. Would like to eventually represent it on my early-mid sixties KC Lines layout.
Andre
Andre, I can get your Q info tonight after work. My DSL was constipated last night and it was hard to do anything online.
What I can tell you off the top of my head is the first diesel painted Chinese Red was a an SD9 that was rebuilt after wreck. Pretty sure it was before 1960. The Q historic society just put out a tome on the SD's, covering the SD7's to SD24's.
(It's pretty odd. I belong to the CB&Q Historical Society, but not the Santa Fe.
)Rusty
If you want to see "Chinese Red" you can come to central IL and see it on the Bloomer Line, a small shortline made up of grain shippers. They office/work
out of Gibson City and most of their equipment is painted in the CB&Q like color.
Highliners went the route of the GSB SD40-2 in the early to mid eighties. I remember we in HO were all excited to have a SD40-2 and then it took them two or three years to be produced and the product itself was wanting in many areas.
Believe it or not, in HO, it was Lifelike who came out with Northeastern cabooses and a BL2 that was "superdetailed" from the factory and forced Atlas, et al, into the production of something beyond Athearn "blue box". And Atlas shook the HO world in '84 with the smooth running Atlas/Kato Rs-3, which would be a good runner today.
As to S, I remember holding a F something from SHS in St. Louis at the National Train Show in '01 and marveling over it...I knew I should have gone S right then and there.
out of Gibson City and most of their equipment is painted in the CB&Q like color.
Highliners went the route of the GSB SD40-2 in the early to mid eighties. I remember we in HO were all excited to have a SD40-2 and then it took them two or three years to be produced and the product itself was wanting in many areas.
Believe it or not, in HO, it was Lifelike who came out with Northeastern cabooses and a BL2 that was "superdetailed" from the factory and forced Atlas, et al, into the production of something beyond Athearn "blue box". And Atlas shook the HO world in '84 with the smooth running Atlas/Kato Rs-3, which would be a good runner today.
As to S, I remember holding a F something from SHS in St. Louis at the National Train Show in '01 and marveling over it...I knew I should have gone S right then and there.
I'm pumped!
Couple nights ago I learned that one of my sure'nuf favorite KC lines, the Kansas City Terminal... had a couple of Phase 1 NW2's... and one of them apparently was NOT rebuilt into an SW600. THIS means the SHS Phase 1 NW2 is CORRECT. Whooooppeeeee!
WHAT does a KCT switcher look like, you ask? Well... here's a sampler in two flavors:
Ain't they purdy?
Andre
Couple nights ago I learned that one of my sure'nuf favorite KC lines, the Kansas City Terminal... had a couple of Phase 1 NW2's... and one of them apparently was NOT rebuilt into an SW600. THIS means the SHS Phase 1 NW2 is CORRECT. Whooooppeeeee!
WHAT does a KCT switcher look like, you ask? Well... here's a sampler in two flavors:
Ain't they purdy?
Andre
Love all those stripes on the 2nd paint scheme.
Butch
Butch
Agreed: The KCT scheme rocks.
FWIW: After I finish working nights this week, I have decided to paint my SHS NW2 w/Tsuami into KCT #60. It will look like the scheme above on #75. I figure it is much more attainable to attempt getting that done in time for the Frisco Convention (Sept 17th) instead of the Frisco DS4-4-1000 Baldwin. The KCT and the Frisco were so intertwined in KC that it's almost like making a Frisco unit.
Downside: All those gorgeous stripes are a PAIN IN THE PATOOTEY to apply. Did you notice how many angles are going on with the stripes??? The cab ends are one angle, the battery box sides are another... and the white pilot stripes yet another angle!!! Lot's of tedious decal application ahead. BUT... it'll be worth it when finished.
As for the Baldwins: Still more stuff to decide upon, and order for same. Gonna' be a while on the Baldwins.
Andre
FWIW: After I finish working nights this week, I have decided to paint my SHS NW2 w/Tsuami into KCT #60. It will look like the scheme above on #75. I figure it is much more attainable to attempt getting that done in time for the Frisco Convention (Sept 17th) instead of the Frisco DS4-4-1000 Baldwin. The KCT and the Frisco were so intertwined in KC that it's almost like making a Frisco unit.
Downside: All those gorgeous stripes are a PAIN IN THE PATOOTEY to apply. Did you notice how many angles are going on with the stripes??? The cab ends are one angle, the battery box sides are another... and the white pilot stripes yet another angle!!! Lot's of tedious decal application ahead. BUT... it'll be worth it when finished.
As for the Baldwins: Still more stuff to decide upon, and order for same. Gonna' be a while on the Baldwins.
Andre
quote:Originally posted by laming:
Downside: All those gorgeous stripes are a PAIN IN THE PATOOTEY to apply. Did you notice how many angles are going on with the stripes??? The cab ends are one angle, the battery box sides are another... and the white pilot stripes yet another angle!!! Lot's of tedious decal application ahead. BUT... it'll be worth it when finished.
Andre
Sounds like it's time for the chorus to sing "Enjoyment with an everlasting challenge..."
Rusty
Yeah, all the stripes will be a PITA, but there's nothing like safety stripes on a black switcher to give you that "Railroad" feeling. And especially since you have both yellow and white stripes!
From what I've seen of your work you'll have no problem with this task.
Looking forward to seeing the results.
Butch
From what I've seen of your work you'll have no problem with this task.
Looking forward to seeing the results.
Butch
Those are unique Andre. I dig the sunshades. And the black and yellow paint will look great! If you decide to paint them yourself, how about some "how to" photos as you go? I've never painted a model, but I'm trying to learn everything I can from the more experienced modelers.
