Traction Tire on PW Diesel, No Groove No tire??

I doubt the traction tire will stay on without a grooved wheel.

 

I have never removed the truck sides to replace a traction tire. It takes a few minutes to work the tire between the wheel and side frame. I use an old dental style tool to help.

 

What is the number of your engine?

or BullfrogSnot or some weights inside

Without the wheel groove to hold the traction tire in place it will slide off fairly quickly.

I've had the same problem with magnetraction locos running on Atlas track.  No traction.  Bullfrogsnot or equivalent fixes them up - just do one wheel on each truck, different sides - I always do it the innermost (nearest the center) axles).  

 

You can remove it with a sharp edge later, if you change your mind. 

Thanks for your replies, CW, Carl, Bill & Lee. I'll give up on the idea & difficulty of putting the traction tires on my magnatrac wheels. Instead add weight and/or bullfrogsnot. InterestIng I had not experienced any wheel slip until I ran my PW diesels on the MSMRE's club track, I've just join a few weeks ago. Lee, you solved the mystery I had not considered! Now I know my old tubular track is at least good for traction. I think the best solution to my problem of running on the club's track is to buy the locomotive I've wanted for years, but get a premier or Legacy version for $$$$$$.

Many of the HO guys use the Bullfrog Snot on wheels without grooves. I've seen some YouTube videos of it as well. I have used the BFS, but only in place of a rubber tire. I would try the BFS on your wheels and see how long it will last.

 

Clean the wheels very good before putting it on. I usually flip the engine upside down in a cradle, run it slowly, clean the wheels with a swab and alcohol, acetone, or laquer thinner. Let that dry and then apply the BFS with a small tip paint brush while running the engine slowly. 1 thin coat might do it, if not put another thin coat on them.   

You can stretch a tire over any diesel wheel to add traction.

 

Use a standard 202-108 tire and slip it between the side frame and around the wheel, partially, and work the wheel around, holding the tire in place with a fine dentist pick-like tool.

 

 

Use a drop of water-thin CA to secure(it will run around the wheel/tire by capillary action). While CA/Super Glue seems somewhat permanent, it has excellent tensile strength, but poor shear strength, allowing you to remove or replace the tires by breaking/chipping off the old tire & glue quite easily.

You also might want to look into the thread "Wheels into TRACTION wheels".

I have the original Lionel Phantom I locomotive, also magnatraction with no traction tires.  It also suffered from having a single motor in the front and couldn't pull it's four car passenger consist.

 

I solved the issue by adding a second motor in the rear.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...24#41553380599629424

What engine and track are you using?

I have 2 PW diesels, both engines only have one motor & FWD

The Milwaukee Road No. 2338 a EMD GP-7 Diesel Locomotive (1955-1956)

The Union Pacific No. 613 a EMD NW2 Switcher (1958)

 

At home I am running these on O27 tubular track. At the MSMRE/ALCC club we have an Atlas track I believe. Their wheels slip more on the club's modern track.

Have the club members decided to use some type of cleaner\lubricant on the rails? Rub your finger on the club rail and see what comes off of it. You can also do the finger or q-tip test or wheels.

 

Which leads to cleaning your wheels with alcohol or scraping off the crud build-up if you haven't cleaned them for a while.

Your 613 has a truck that is staked together. The side frames are not meant to be removed. By the way the Postwar 613 Union Pacific switcher is the most difficult to obtain, and is the most desirable of it's type.

Your 2338 Milwaukee Road Geep has a truck that comes apart. One screw to detach the motor from the truck. Then one screw to hold the side frames / steps / coupler assembly.
The truck block is a separate piece. If interested, you should be able to find a Modern Era truck block that would be a drop in replacement, and use it when you are at your club. Not all that long ago, Grzyboski's was selling MPC F3 rear trucks with an early version of this truck block (ZAMAC wheels & traction tires) very inexpensively. You could write to them and ask if they have any left. I find that they are very responsive and very friendly. They were listed as dummy trucks, but they have what you would need.

The club runs a 3rail track-cleaner, but I don't know what was used as a cleaner/lubricant. Last Saturday I ran a paper towel over the track and picked up a black residue and wiped the wheels on each diesel but the slipping continued with more than 2 cars. Given the requirement to do taxes I will not be able to get to the club track this coming Saturday, but a lot of good guys will be there the next Saturday for our Monthly Open House.

 

Last evening at home I cleaned the wheels with acetone, tried to pull a heavy load and even on my tubular track slipping occurred. I have not got Bullfrog Snot yet. Might try to pick it up soon.

Hmmm, since I haven't a sentimental attachment to the 613 U.P., maybe I should set it aside and consider finding a new home for it.

 

Good lead to improve the 2338 Milwaukee1 I do have a sentimental attachment to it, and since I already goof up the paint when I was a kid, would not mind modifying it, especial to get it to work more efficient.

Rather use hardware store naphtha to clean your trains than acetone. The acetone will attack plastic, paint and probably the insulation on motor windings, whereas naphtha is completely safe as an all around cleaner/degreaser. It can be used to clean track also.

 

Larry

How would you ever know that Grzyboski's was selling those?  I looked around, but I sure couldn't find them!

 

I would think Bullfrog Snot would be the best solution here. You wouldn't have to dismantle your 613 and I am sure you could remove it with a knife or wire wheel if you wished. Same with Geep.

 

Pete

 

 

Dear Larry

 

Naphtha is a flammable liquid and Flash Point of zero degrees F. Here is the MSDS Sheet. I would be very careful using Naphtha. In simpler language you could start a fire at low temperatures.

 

http://hazard.com/msds/mf/baker/baker/files/p1696.htm

 

quote:

How would you ever know that Grzyboski's was selling those?  I looked around, but I sure couldn't find them!

 

I don't think they were ever listed on his site.
Don't know whether he has any left.

Probably why it works so well for lighter fluid.

 

I have a First edition Lionel S2 turbine mfg without traction tires. This heavy engine lacks traction on Fastrack and I believe that traction tires would greatly enhance the pulling power. A forum member has indicated that his machine shop can perform the required modification reasonably. Which pair of wheels would be best to grove for the tires and is it difficult to remove and reinstall wheels on this S2? Comments appreciated.

I assume you mean the 8404 turbine.

The flanges of the end wheels extend to behind the adjacent set of blind drivers. So, to pull the end wheels, you must pull the adjacent blind drivers first.

I would not recommend removing and re-installing wheels without the proper tools unless there is no other choice. Those tools are: a wheel puller, and an arbor press with the correct wheel cups.

 

Yes, there are other ways to get the wheels off and remounted, but you risk damage, and having crooked wheels when you are done.

 

All that written, only the rear wheels are driven by the motor, so that is where I would put the tires.

What is the advantage of Naphtha over pure mineral spirits?

 

Also, are mineral spirits any less flammable?

Have you tried putting some weight on the engine? Just sit a couple of ounces on top the engine over the driver truck. Quick test to determine if some inside would help. if it does help, you can get some wheel weights(tape type that is flat) from a tire center or automotive store.

I'm assuming he means the scale S2 w/o MagneTraction.

 

Thank for the responses. To clarify, I have the O scale first release of the Lionel O scale S2. It seems that I will need to invest in some special tools like a wheel puller and a reassembly cup plus whatever is involved in getting to the wheels.  As suggested, I will try the weights eventho the engine is quite heavy and possibly bullfrog snot before any disassembly. I also contemplated  using tight fitting O rings from the hardware store to increase the traction of this impressive looking engine. Any comments or suggestions?

I don't know that any of my comments applies to Lionel's scale S2, I am unfamiliar with it.

Seems like that's a pretty heavy scale engine, I would think it didn't need rubber tires.  how many cars are you trying to pull?

Dear Larry

 

Mineral Spirits has a flash point of 109 degrees F.  Here is the MSDS for it. http://www.saylesschool.org/MS...ineral%20Spirits.pdf Track cleaning is a personal choice and this topic has been gone over more than once.  In my option I believe using flammable liquids is not a good choice due to a chance of fire. Most layout are in confided spaces and using flammable liquid in that type of space is asking for problems. There many fine alternatives that are not flammable that will do just as good of a job on cleaning.

Thanks for the information on mineral spirits.

I use it sparingly to clean train parts.
I have never used it to clean track.

I occasionally clean the track on my small layout with a clean, dry cloth.

Hi Cw Burfle

 

I do not want to Hi Jack this thread I just want quickly talk about safety.  GRJ like to use alcohol to clean his track. Others use other solvents which are or can be flammable liquids which can case a fire in a confined spaces. A basement has a heating system and hot water system if they are open flame you can have a reaction with the flammable liquids and case an explosion or flash fire. Having been certified by the IMO in HAZMAT transportation I take an extreme caution route when transporting or using chemicals for my personal use. Please feel free to use what you think is best and just use common sense and a well vented area when using chemicals. And always read the manufactures direction before using the product.

Kris,

The mention of naphtha as a cleaner was due to the OP using acetone to clean the wheels on his locomotive. Acetone will damage plastic and paint, and has a flash point lower than naphtha (-4 degrees F.).

Naphtha will not damage plastic or paint, nor attack motor winding insulation. It is a far better cleaner/degreaser than alcohol, and that is why it is recommended.

 

If you know of a non-flammable cleaner/degreaser that is at least as good as, if not better, than naphtha, please advise the hobby community.

 

Larry

Dear Larry

 

I subject of flammable liquids I was only talking about the safety factor of enclosed spaces.  For track cleaning there are other product that are safer. For the wheels cleaning I use WD40 but that is also a flammable liquid but a higher flash point of 109 degrees F. http://www.wd40company.com/fil...s-us-ghs-7-20-14.pdf I do not know if DW40 will damage plastic or paint but works on removing the dirt from wheels.

 

Naphtha has been around since 2nd century BC and will still be around when are are long gone. I do not know of any substitute for Naphtha that will do what it does and not damage plastic or paint, nor attack motor winding insulation. Maybe someone else in the forum can answer that question that has more knowledge that me on that subject.

 

And I am only talking about safety of chemicals in enclosed space. Since we in hobby do this in winter time we are indoors doing our hobby.  Since we are indoor we have the work space and our homes buttoned up tight not to let the cool air in. This is the type of project I would do on a warm sunny day outside. Where there is good ventilation and if something goes wrong it is outside the house not inside.

I'm fairly sure that any fire I start with a little alcohol or naphtha on a rag can be dealt with using this.  It sits across the room from the workbench in a corner.

 

I'm all for safety, but you can't be paralyzed by the remote possibility of something happening.  Isopropyl alcohol is found in a majority of homes, it's typically not considered a major risk. My use of naphtha is a small bit squirted on a rag for cleaning, again I don't see I'm running an undue risk.

 

Good safety discussion on flammable fluids. Thanks

 

I have not found any Bullfrog Snot locally, so I'll need order online.

 

Also I have a correction. Earlier I said I believed the club track my PW locomotive wheels were slipping on was made by Atlas. Actually it is Gargaves flexible track.

Gene,

Is your trainroom inside your home? How about your workbench? If the answer is, "Yes" to one or both. I recommend not using a dry chemical (powder). If you had to use the dry chemical. You will find the powder throughout your home. It is for this reason I maintain the CO2 devises in all areas of my home. Your local Fire Department can instruct you how to use the CO2 type safely.

FWIW, I've noticed that most PW or even more modern magnatraction locomotives with no traction tires will slip in Atlas track as well.  The principal reason I did my dual-motor upgrade for my Phantom locomotive was that it would run on my Fastrack, but on the club layout with Atlas, it couldn't pull it's four passenger cars.