I am happy to be wrong about this.  I'm glad they are updating the sound, at least that's the impression I get from your post.  Kudos to Lionel to take care of this.

Marty

 

Below the Signature...

"You should have bought a train."

 

John Rowlen posted:

So,  you are saying Lionel has the ability to change the sound files?

How do they run and sound now?  Can you make a video with sound?  Thanks.

John

Not only that, did they un-sync the driver sets between the front engine and the rear engine? 

romiller49 posted:

You may get the sync sounds but since only one smoke unit I’ll bet you won’t get the sync smoke. Hopefully a video with the fixed sound will help people decide on sync sound or sync smoke. I would be happy with either if I could own one. 

First of the smoke stack do not operate independently on the real challenger so not sure what your point is with sync smoke. I have the vision line Big Boy I wish I could turn off that feature because it is not realistic. The fact that people are happy to own it with the wrong sounds is exactly why there was no post from Lionel stating outright they would fix them. Not sure how people can drop this kind of cash and not push the manufacturer to fix their mistakes. Tolerance is only acceptable when it does not affect my wallet. 

Shawn Chronister

Alabama Joe posted:

I actually owned my VisionLine Challengers for an hour and a half before they went back to Lionel.     I appreciate Lionel adding the Articulated Sounds.     E319ACE6-1643-48FA-9F2D-67BDB08B30FA

I couldn’t even get a call back from service and I was polite and everything.   Maybe i’ll Try again 

C & O-Scalers

LCCA  member

LOTS  member

Appalachian Model Railroad Society

Chesapeake & Ohio Historical Society

 

In my world there is a cold beer and vision big boy for everyone.

I will probably leave my 1931250 Greyhound Challenger #3977 synced to the smoke as manufactured, but I reserve the right to change my mind once I see a video of the un-synced Challenger.

Will the new Big Boy have the same synced drivers?  I see no mention of alternating smoke puffs.  My original Vision Line Big Boys retailed for $2,999.00, significantly more than the newest version being advertised.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

I called on Tuesday ((Monday’s are bad) and waited a short time.    Katie took the call and as usual, pleasant and an easy transaction to get the RA.    Lionel paid for shipping.    I think Lionel is being responsible  and making it right.    I for one appreciate what Lionel is doing.   

sahan posted:

I sent Lionel an email asking them if they could change the sound and if they could update my one and it's been 5 days and no reply. I sent it to talktous@lionel.com. Is that correct? if not what would be the correct email?

Don’t feel too bad, I sent an E-Mail to them over a week ago & no reply either! Deane of Lionel says all over this Forum:  If you have any questions, to send an E-Mail , but when you do , you get NO response !! Don’t get it & probably never will how they can operate this way!!!

Fredstrains 

Shawn_Chronister posted:
romiller49 posted:

You may get the sync sounds but since only one smoke unit I’ll bet you won’t get the sync smoke. Hopefully a video with the fixed sound will help people decide on sync sound or sync smoke. I would be happy with either if I could own one. 

First of the smoke stack do not operate independently on the real challenger so not sure what your point is with sync smoke. I have the vision line Big Boy I wish I could turn off that feature because it is not realistic. The fact that people are happy to own it with the wrong sounds is exactly why there was no post from Lionel stating outright they would fix them. Not sure how people can drop this kind of cash and not push the manufacturer to fix their mistakes. Tolerance is only acceptable when it does not affect my wallet. 

On the VL Big Boy you can turn off that feature in the address assigning portion of the set up.  It will actually ask you the question.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

Fredstrains posted:
sahan posted:

I sent Lionel an email asking them if they could change the sound and if they could update my one and it's been 5 days and no reply. I sent it to talktous@lionel.com. Is that correct? if not what would be the correct email?

Don’t feel too bad, I sent an E-Mail to them over a week ago & no reply either! Deane of Lionel says all over this Forum:  If you have any questions, to send an E-Mail , but when you do , you get NO response !! Don’t get it & probably never will how they can operate this way!!!

Fredstrains 

They can operate this way because people keep accepting the incorrect stuff they put out, do not question it.  As well as not calling saying hey I sent an email you tell us to send an email and do not respond.  

Shawn Chronister

Shawn_Chronister posted:
Fredstrains posted:
sahan posted:

I sent Lionel an email asking them if they could change the sound and if they could update my one and it's been 5 days and no reply. I sent it to talktous@lionel.com. Is that correct? if not what would be the correct email?

Don’t feel too bad, I sent an E-Mail to them over a week ago & no reply either! Deane of Lionel says all over this Forum:  If you have any questions, to send an E-Mail , but when you do , you get NO response !! Don’t get it & probably never will how they can operate this way!!!

Fredstrains 

They can operate this way because people keep accepting the incorrect stuff they put out, do not question it.  As well as not calling saying hey I sent an email you tell us to send an email and do not respond.  

Wow...!!  So how are Jacob Marley, Bob Cratchit, and Tiny Tim these days....  just get out of the hobby...  you’ve obviously had enough.

Regards,

Byron Hathaway

NPOG Member

 

"Go as far as you can see.  When you get there, you'll be able to see further."

- Thomas Carlyle

I thought I would step in after just getting off the phone with Katie at Lionel.  Yes they will give you and RMA to send the units in.  Katie told me that they will just change the sounds (whatever that means).  They do nothing mechanically to the drivers to the best of her knowledge.  Part of me does not want to go through the hassle, but the other part of me will regret no action after a couple of years.  Well my Challenger will be going to Concord to keep my ALCOs company.

The plus side is that Lionel stepped up to the plate on my 2 issues.  They even cover the shipping.  This is not a hassle free hobby .

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

BHalfway posted:
Shawn_Chronister posted:
Fredstrains posted:
sahan posted:

I sent Lionel an email asking them if they could change the sound and if they could update my one and it's been 5 days and no reply. I sent it to talktous@lionel.com. Is that correct? if not what would be the correct email?

Don’t feel too bad, I sent an E-Mail to them over a week ago & no reply either! Deane of Lionel says all over this Forum:  If you have any questions, to send an E-Mail , but when you do , you get NO response !! Don’t get it & probably never will how they can operate this way!!!

Fredstrains 

They can operate this way because people keep accepting the incorrect stuff they put out, do not question it.  As well as not calling saying hey I sent an email you tell us to send an email and do not respond.  

Wow...!!  So how are Jacob Marley, Bob Cratchit, and Tiny Tim these days....  just get out of the hobby...  you’ve obviously had enough.

Look I am calling it like it is as I have said before they claim this is the gold standard of there product and it was $1800 of my money. I purchased this engine based on the level of standard they claim it suppose to be and not being a scrooge just holding the manufacturer to there end of the bargain. How can you like my post and then call me a scrooge? 

Shawn Chronister

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

I thought I would step in after just getting off the phone with Katie at Lionel.  Yes they will give you and RMA to send the units in.  Katie told me that they will just change the sounds (whatever that means).  They do nothing mechanically to the drivers to the best of her knowledge.  Part of me does not want to go through the hassle, but the other part of me will regret no action after a couple of years.  Well my Challenger will be going to Concord to keep my ALCOs company.

The plus side is that Lionel stepped up to the plate on my 2 issues.  They even cover the shipping.  This is not a hassle free hobby .

I was very critical of Lionel when they issue was first uncovered, I was however respectful about it though.   Lionel has stepped up to correct any issues I've ever had and then some.   I've heard some horror stories but my experiences have been good other than them not returning my call on this very issue.  I will try again today and see where it goes. 

C & O-Scalers

LCCA  member

LOTS  member

Appalachian Model Railroad Society

Chesapeake & Ohio Historical Society

 

In my world there is a cold beer and vision big boy for everyone.

John Rowlen posted:

Will the new Big Boy have the same synced drivers?  I see no mention of alternating smoke puffs.  My original Vision Line Big Boys retailed for $2,999.00, significantly more than the newest version being advertised.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

What I get from the whole saga of the current VL Challengers is that if an operating feature is not specifically cataloged don’t assume anything about it being included. The BBs in the latest catalog are not described as having the alternating smoke output feature and are not VL offerings. The operating feature set generally is more limited than the VL BBs (which is directly reflected in the MSRP) so I can’t imagine they include alternating smoke.

BTW, the MSRP/catalog price of the VL BBs was $2,699 and only in the aftermarket did they go for $2,999 (or more). 

Shawn_Chronister posted:
BHalfway posted:
Shawn_Chronister posted:
Fredstrains posted:
sahan posted:

I sent Lionel an email asking them if they could change the sound and if they could update my one and it's been 5 days and no reply. I sent it to talktous@lionel.com. Is that correct? if not what would be the correct email?

Don’t feel too bad, I sent an E-Mail to them over a week ago & no reply either! Deane of Lionel says all over this Forum:  If you have any questions, to send an E-Mail , but when you do , you get NO response !! Don’t get it & probably never will how they can operate this way!!!

Fredstrains 

They can operate this way because people keep accepting the incorrect stuff they put out, do not question it.  As well as not calling saying hey I sent an email you tell us to send an email and do not respond.  

Wow...!!  So how are Jacob Marley, Bob Cratchit, and Tiny Tim these days....  just get out of the hobby...  you’ve obviously had enough.

Look I am calling it like it is as I have said before they claim this is the gold standard of there product and it was $1800 of my money. I purchased this engine based on the level of standard they claim it suppose to be and not being a scrooge just holding the manufacturer to there end of the bargain. How can you like my post and then call me a scrooge? 

The “like” was a slip of the thumb... it was immediately unliked but I guess the email sent anyway...  I appreciate that Lionel has done right by us with the fix.  Period!  From a source who has internal contacts I understand that they really tried to ensure everything was perfect with this one.   Unfortunately they just missed this detail and I can see how that might happen if they are so focused on all the mechanicals, operating system and visuals.  It’s not as if it didn’t have sound at all...  I’m truly just sick of all the whining and complaining about every little thing...  if you can’t go with the flow of something that now has a resolution then just get out and save us all the agony of reading the droning on and on of negativity... Please!

Regards,

Byron Hathaway

NPOG Member

 

"Go as far as you can see.  When you get there, you'll be able to see further."

- Thomas Carlyle

BHalfway posted:
Shawn_Chronister posted:
BHalfway posted:
Shawn_Chronister posted:
Fredstrains posted:
sahan posted:

I sent Lionel an email asking them if they could change the sound and if they could update my one and it's been 5 days and no reply. I sent it to talktous@lionel.com. Is that correct? if not what would be the correct email?

Don’t feel too bad, I sent an E-Mail to them over a week ago & no reply either! Deane of Lionel says all over this Forum:  If you have any questions, to send an E-Mail , but when you do , you get NO response !! Don’t get it & probably never will how they can operate this way!!!

Fredstrains 

They can operate this way because people keep accepting the incorrect stuff they put out, do not question it.  As well as not calling saying hey I sent an email you tell us to send an email and do not respond.  

Wow...!!  So how are Jacob Marley, Bob Cratchit, and Tiny Tim these days....  just get out of the hobby...  you’ve obviously had enough.

Look I am calling it like it is as I have said before they claim this is the gold standard of there product and it was $1800 of my money. I purchased this engine based on the level of standard they claim it suppose to be and not being a scrooge just holding the manufacturer to there end of the bargain. How can you like my post and then call me a scrooge? 

The “like” was a slip of the thumb... it was immediately unliked but I guess the email sent anyway...  I appreciate that Lionel has done right by us with the fix.  Period!  From a source who has internal contacts I understand that they really tried to ensure everything was perfect with this one.   Unfortunately they just missed this detail and I can see how that might happen if they are so focused on all the mechanicals, operating system and visuals.  It’s not as if it didn’t have sound at all...  I’m truly just sick of all the whining and complaining about every little thing...  if you can’t go with the flow of something that now has a resolution then just get out and save us all the agony of reading the droning on and on of negativity... Please!

Couldn't agree more. 

C & O-Scalers

LCCA  member

LOTS  member

Appalachian Model Railroad Society

Chesapeake & Ohio Historical Society

 

In my world there is a cold beer and vision big boy for everyone.

I didn't hear that Lionel decided to add the articulated sounds, that's pretty cool.  I think I'd be tempted to just send back the sound boards for the upgrade to avoid potential shipping damage sending the whole locomotive.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I didn't hear that Lionel decided to add the articulated sounds, that's pretty cool.  I think I'd be tempted to just send back the sound boards for the upgrade to avoid potential shipping damage sending the whole locomotive.

Is that an offer for making that happen Johnny?  😜

Regards,

Byron Hathaway

NPOG Member

 

"Go as far as you can see.  When you get there, you'll be able to see further."

- Thomas Carlyle

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I didn't hear that Lionel decided to add the articulated sounds, that's pretty cool.  I think I'd be tempted to just send back the sound boards for the upgrade to avoid potential shipping damage sending the whole locomotive.

Wish we all had that option.  Must be nice to be in the in crowd.  Oh well, it will work out I'm sure.  I wish it was as easy as sending a board in, but I was not given the option.  The packaging is good and it is a solid engine without a bunch of details hanging by a wire.  Should be fine.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

BHalfway posted:
gunrunnerjohn posted:

I didn't hear that Lionel decided to add the articulated sounds, that's pretty cool.  I think I'd be tempted to just send back the sound boards for the upgrade to avoid potential shipping damage sending the whole locomotive.

Is that an offer for making that happen Johnny?  😜

My services are always available at a reasonable price.

I think it's unbelievable in this day and age that you have to actually ship something back to have sounds reloaded. Who the heck would think that's a good idea? I've been watching DCC vids lately on YouTube and man oh man Lionel is so far behind on tech it's gross.

At least you can turn the markers off I guess. 

Norm Charbonneau posted:

I think it's unbelievable in this day and age that you have to actually ship something back to have sounds reloaded. Who the heck would think that's a good idea? 

It's even more unbelievable that they couldn't get the sounds right the first time.

Especially considering they were correct on the original VL challenger.

The phrase, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it",comes to mind

" No matter how far we travel, the memories will follow in the baggage car."

So are you saying that all Challengers need to go back to Lionel to fix the sound files? Mine was just delivered and I don't plan to unpack it if that's the case. 

 

Please advise

 

 

TCA, METCA, LCCA, LRRC, MTHRRC, Atlas Golden Spike Club Charter Member, Bergen County Model RRC and NJ HiRailers Member.

 

If you haven't checked out the new NJ HiRailers website please do. Go to the "Photos" page to see galleries of our events and check the "What's New" page periodically to see what we've added.

 

 

 

Without knowing what went wrong and where, we could speculate about this all year long.  It could have been spec'd correctly and an uncaught error made down the process but we'll never know unless Lionel says what happened.  Yes it stinks to have to return it but it does seem like Lionel is stepping up. I'm not sure if Dean's hair could get any grayer.  LOL!    I'm sure he's doing his best.  

Marty

 

Below the Signature...

"You should have bought a train."

 

Sadly, with the design of the sound and RCMC boards, there doesn't seem any way to do uploads to the boards directly.  Of course, that would also imply that Lionel would release the code to do such uploads, I think that's one sticking point.

Also I'm guessing, from looking at the RS-Lite board, there isn't enough RAM on the board to buffer the upload and then write to the FLASH.  In addition, the serial link is only 3K BPS, so it would take a really long time to upload a significantly sized sound file.  For a 1 MB file, it would take 55 minutes to load assuming you had the full 3K bandwidth available, in truth there is always quite a bit of overhead, so the time would be significantly greater.  Next, the TMCC/Legacy interface is a uni-directional interface, so there is no possibility of knowing if the upload succeeded, you have have to do the entire upload and then see if the sound file passed the check on the other end.

Bottom line, I don't see uploading as practical given the design of the TMCC/Legacy operating environment.

However, if Lionel sees fit to give me the code, I could probably program them.

Norm Charbonneau posted:

I think it's unbelievable in this day and age that you have to actually ship something back to have sounds reloaded. Who the heck would think that's a good idea? I've been watching DCC vids lately on YouTube and man oh man Lionel is so far behind on tech it's gross.

At least you can turn the markers off I guess. 

I’m sure Lionel is aware of that but it’s simply too late to do anything about it. The two main players were so busy trying to out do the other that they could not vision the direction the hobby was going. 

Rod Miller

The amazing thing is that they apparently had the Challengers apart to fix another issue, likely the RCMC forgetting it's ID.  At that point, it would have been easy to simply program the sound boards with all of the units in hand!  Now it's a whole other round of unpacking, taking stuff apart, programming, putting it together, and then packing it again!

MartyE posted:

Without knowing what went wrong and where, we could speculate about this all year long.  It could have been spec'd correctly and an uncaught error made down the process but we'll never know unless Lionel says what happened.

I remember back in the "Mike Regan  era", Lionel had a "Quality Control Inspector" over there in China.  So,,,,what happened to him, and why wasn't this reported "sound mistake" found by that "Inspector", over in China prior to any models even being packed? 

  Yes it stinks to have to return it but it does seem like Lionel is stepping up. I'm not sure if Dean's hair could get any grayer.  LOL!    I'm sure he's doing his best.  

 

Too late to do anything about it, yet they sat in the warehouse for weeks. They were shipped anyway because Lionel knew most people will just accept them as is. As proof right here, many people have just accepted the mistake of screwing up something that had already been done before!

 

Bottom line, you're stuck with what Lionel decides to put in there. Lionel has a history of unpleasant surprises when it comes to sounds in their high end engines. I have a JLC Allegheny and Legacy Big Boy with whatever random whistle file was available at the time. It's a bit strange when their Lionmaster or Flyer offerings have more correct sound features. They had the edge up until maybe 15 years ago with reliable command control and sounds that had an easy to use interface. The aftermarket at the time picked up the slack with upgrade parts but now they are so far behind the curve. Seems like they just dumbed their stuff down to appeal to boomers and toddlers and no one in between. I was watching a random Loksound vid and the dude was demoing 16 different whistles! 16!  

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