When do Modern command controlled locomotives become obsolete?

I agree Chuck. But for Backup Sake... Whenever I purchase a Locomotive through Lionel I ALWAYS Print out the Lionel Parts Layout Sheet on each and every one. Because they may not always be available and are sure darn handy to have on hand in case you're in the hunt for that much needed part number. I will also click on the individual Part and in-bed it in to a word processor and put it into a pdf file. That may seem like over-kill but it has saved my tail more than once. Especially if you need to talk to Lionel you can still use that old extinct part number to give that to them and they can give you another part # that will replace it. It can make life a little easier when in the struggle for that needed part. Just my casual OCD going to work for me. 

Great thread.  My brother has a 1932 Ford Model A in his garage.  There are more parts available now than in 1942, 1952, or 1962.

I have a sailboat that was designed in 1914.  When she was built in 1981, the only hardware available was plastic and stainless steel, and while it got the job done, it didn't look right against the deep gloss of the varnished spars and trim.  Today, I can get beautifully cast-bronze reproduction hardware that matches the original of 1914, made in America and equipped with Delrin roller bearings to boot!

I have a #262 from 1932, a #238E from 1938, Post War, and modern engines.  They all work.  Some with the throttles on my 1949 ZW, and others from my 15 year-old CAB-1.

It's all good!

Jon

This continues to be an interesting thread.  I see things differently that some others.  Repairability of old locos and such is not an obsolescence issue to me, per se.  You can always repair old equipment if you want to badly enough.  I repaired my Dad's mid '30s Marx wind up, etc., I know one major electric utility in the northeast US that keeps some HV circuit breakers nearly 100 years old in service by having parts hand-forged of hardened cooper and then machined - expensive, but . . . 

A repaired and well cared for [whatever loco] will always do every bit of what it did on the day it was manufactured.  It might get so old that from a practical sense its not worth finding/buying/making parts of paying for skills to repair it, but . . . . The original question here was when technical obsolescence would render a modern command control obsolete, which I interpreted to mean the performance would no longer be acceptable to people used to/having the option of the newer. To me, that is clearly by 15 years and begins around ten years. I have very early PS1 andTMCC locos in very good condition I don't run because they simply don't have cruise, linearity of control, and sound as good as modern.  I am beginning to notice, and care about - the quality of sound in older locos.  Even my beloved JLC Big Boy (just about ten years old now) - still modern enough, but barely: it has good cruise, and good sounds, but it doesn't compare favorably to the Vision Challenger running alongside it, with its multi-speakers, or I am sure, the new vision big Boy with its multi-speakers. Soon it will be "obsolete" too. Eventually, what happens is you get spoiled by the new features and just don't want to run the old.  It's happening to me, anyway, with early electronic locos now, and 

The original question here was when technical obsolescence would render a modern command control obsolete, which I interpreted to mean the performance would no longer be acceptable to people used to/having the option of the newer. 

The underlying issue is that the modern cc circuitry is being overlaid on chassis's that aren't that much different than what preceded command control.  You can swap out the old CC stuff and but in more modern material.  I would guestimate that about 25% or Williams sales are to people like myself that want a decent drive train and reasonably accurate model that we can swap in command electronics and and kit bash the shell to make more accurate models than the big guys are able/willing to do.  The other 75% of their sales is to people just want an old school electric train that will run well and not break the bank.

From what I have seen over the last 20 years of being in the hobby is that the amount of truly "obsolete" stuff is extremely small and in most cases there are good reasons why those items are "obsolete".  Usually they weren't that well made/thought out and nobody really wanted them in the first place

Chuck

You brought up an interesting aspect of the discussion. At 63, I grew up in a pre-electronics era where the most sophisticated model railroad devices were electro-mechanical, levers, springs with solenoids etc. One thing I can speak to is my own ignorance of electronics, boards etc. I read how one swaps this board for that, modifies this capacitor, resistor etc with relative ease. I would have no idea where to begin. When my PS! boards failed..I was out of luck in terms of repairing them myself. There may be a divide between younger tech savy folks and older folks like yours truly, unless one has the appropriate experience in the working world. 

Conventional to me means repairable according to my skills. 

I wouldnt go so far as to call it a generation gap, it might be a tech gap.

That goes along way in how one terms repairable. As well as what one buys.

Another aspect is a a question. Has the level of sophistication reached a point where the average joe is faced with a dilemma, either rely on others or be reeducated in solid state circuitry..then I guess you would have to ask..( based on questions on the forum) if the makers should do a better job of explaining their technology to the consumer.

These are great points, guys.  I think any of us tend to look at problems and the possible fixes we can apply from within the "knowledge space" we were taught, etc. If you didn't learn/weren't taught component electronics, then its a mystery to you, etc.   Frankly, as chuck said several posts above, many of these "modern" locos are just the newest electronics overlaid (good word for it) on older loco designs, etc. and some of us can do a better job of installing modern elect  The easiest way to repair or upgrade is just to do what the manufacturer did, really, go ahead and "overlay" your electronic solution on the old original chassis - rip out whatever they put and install EER of whatever you understand and "make it modern again."

Newer boards are very difficult to repair.  I look at the newest sound and control boards and see a bunch of flyspeck surface mount components that even if I could identify I don't have the tools or skills to replace.  

At that point it becomes an issue of identifying the board with the problem and replacing it and possibly sending the board to someone that can repair it.  The latter is getting to be harder to find BUT you can see if anyone local does pinball/arcade repairs.  They probably have the skills need to fix what's broken.  It then becomes an issue of whether it's worth it.

Are current electronics (TMCC, Legacy, PS2, PS3) such that the electronics needed to "run" the engine are separated (on a different board) than those needed for sound, for lights?

If not, why not?  It would be a shame for someone who has a sound or lighting issue having it affect movement of the engine.  And there should be some kind of filter between the boards so, in case of a short in one, it doesn't affect the others.

I interned at Rockford Fosgate for a while, and they can cram a lot in a tiny package.  When reworking prototypes, I watched guys replace SM parts with tweezers under a microscope.  That's way above my skill level.

With the demands for smaller locos to have full command and sound features, the boards have to get smaller. Which means more features have to be crammed onto a single board.