I got mine the next day after I ordered it from Menards!! I am VERY happy with how it looks, sounds and runs!! I also don't care at all that the remote is not compatible with Lionel or anyone else. I hope Menards makes more and different engines. Hope they can keep prices down too!
@Dewman51 posted:I got mine the next day after I ordered it from Menards!! I am VERY happy with how it looks, sounds and runs!! I also don't care at all that the remote is not compatible with Lionel or anyone else. I hope Menards makes more and different engines. Hope they can keep prices down too!
Great to hear this!
@Dewman51 posted:I am VERY happy with how it looks, sounds and runs!! I also don't care at all that the remote is not compatible with Lionel or anyone else. I hope Menards makes more and different engines. Hope they can keep prices down too!
Am I seeing correctly that the number boards are lit by red LEDs?
I would be happy to give an Amtrak version a try. It's great to see Menards dipping their toes in the motive power area to complement their extensive line of affordable rolling stock and very nice structure line.
Not to "derail" this thread but here's a video... go to the 9 minute, 50 second mark, if the time stamp doesn't work.
Lionel CEO's have been saying this sort of thing for years: The best selling items are starter sets, which mostly don't have the same ROI requirements. Their profitability comes from larger sales numbers without the related tooling/R&D costs. This is an older number, but an HO locomotive costs a quarter of a million dollars to tool up and bring to market. A larger O scale one would likely be even more.
Even Jason Shron of Rapido said that before they got their own dedicated factory, they were having production delays because their Chinese vendor could make more money manufacturing plastic dinner ware than high end HO trains. This is a reality that maybe the consumer doesn't deal with, but the train makers certainly do.
Coming back to Menards, I think they've figured out there is a market for reasonable quality trains a more more budget friendly price that mostly run on 031 curves. Just as most of their building have a smaller footprint, so they fit or more folks layouts, thus opening the door for more sales. Granted, they don't have the same financial restrictions and demands as does one of the dedicated train makers. And they also could drop the train line at any time and still be in business.
I think it's amusing how so many folks expect Menards to deliver scale fidelity and high end features on a locomotive that most certainly has a starter type of product price point. Outside of that, I won't comment on this new Menards engine (other than I'm very surprised they're even doing it), because it's a moot point until enough reviews come in where you can make a fair assessment on the quality and functionality of the locomotive... in relation to the price point!
Just as we don't know where the loco tooling came from unless Mark from Menards says so, or someone out there compares it to another product. Like with the Menards Deep Well Container Car: It was NEW to Menards as they said in their advertising, but it was a spot on copy of the Right Of Way Industries version, albeit with detail compromises. They might have had new tooling for this engine made for them, but at this price point, that's kind of hard to believe.
@brianel_k-lineguy posted:They might have had new tooling for this engine made for them, but at this price point, that's kind of hard to believe.
Well, nobody else has previously made an O gauge FP7 (Which it what it is, regardless of Menards calling it an F3) other than 3rd Rail. So this is new tooling, or at least someone else's aborted project.
Rusty
Jonathan,
Between you and Dallas, we should have a good feel for the strengths and weaknesses of the new engine. From what I have seen in the videos starting to come online, it is very promising. It is another choice we can embrace.
I look forward to seeing if the remote interferes with the other clubs, as well as its ability to pull on the layout. It definitely would look good on track one and two run by the hands for the kids.
@Former Member posted:This is thread is totally derailing and turning into a universal remote/company profitability thread and not focusing on the engine itself. Lame. I’d like to know if it has metal gears, it’s adequately lubed at the factory, fit and finish of parts, a look under the shell & that sort of stuff. I saw a while back that cabinetbob posted a pic of the remote… and then he went MIA. I wonder if he’s having issues with his. He’s usually pretty quick to post pics & vids.
How a locomotive operates is very much a part of any evaluation of a company’s product. Menards asked for a full wholistic evaluation. This is very relevant.
Very interesting. Great job menards
I've heard very good things about these engines, I'm looking forward to some in different road names.
@Ron_S posted:Jonathan,
Between you and Dallas, we should have a good feel for the strengths and weaknesses of the new engine. From what I have seen in the videos starting to come online, it is very promising. It is another choice we can embrace.
I look forward to seeing if the remote interferes with the other clubs, as well as its ability to pull on the layout. It definitely would look good on track one and two run by the hands for the kids.
Ron - we are on the same page. The kids would love this! If mine arrives on Saturday as promised, I'll plan on making a trip over to the P and P and see how it works on Track 1. I haven't been to the layout since the COVID closure. A trip over is LONG overdue for me.
Jonathan,
Bob Cowles and Jim Woldman are running Sunday, Rolland LeHaie and Rick Fortmeyer Saturday.
You definitely need to smell some ozone!!
i see no problem with running it "CONVENTIONAL". You simply set the remote "+" to "MAX" and vary the track voltage via your transformer. Am I wrong?
Wild Mary,
A simpler method is to add a simple switch on the frame, like a lockout on the old Williams, so you choose to run it conventional or with remote. Cost about .25 to add on your own plus 30 minutes of your time.
@Ron_S posted:Wild Mary,
A simpler method is to add a simple switch on the frame, like a lockout on the old Williams, so you choose to run it conventional or with remote. Cost about .25 to add on your own plus 30 minutes of your time.
Interesting but not quite sure how that would work Ron. The old Williams lock-out was only for direction, not speed. Never the less this give Menards something to think about which is the purpose of this thread.
Like a program switch, you cut out the power to the chip controlling it and if needed jumper in past the board, as long as the wiring is not routed through a bunch of components that can't be bypassed, which wouldn't make sense on an entry level engine. Simplicity is what makes them affordable.
🇺🇸 Look what the USPS Lady just put in my mailbox. The MENARDS • Santa Fe F3 Diesel Locomotive.
Gary
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I would be interested to know:
1) If remote is switched off or out of range, does loco continue running, gradually slows down, or stops immediately?
2) Does track voltage affect loco speed ie, at 18V loco runs at top speed full throttle, at 9V loco runs at approximately half speed full throttle?
3) Does crew talk stop where is in the memory loop, or does it restart at "top" beginning again if button pressed again? Does it complete a sentence/phrase if button released before sentence completed? Assume loop restarts at "top" when loco powers up again.
4) Assume there is no way to change frequencies so can only run one loco at time without interference? Yes adds cost, but surprised there was no A,B,C frequencies to allow multiple locos.
Curious mind wonders (wanders?? 
)
Alright, time to do some fun running and test that baby out!!!!
@trainroomgary posted:🇺🇸 Look what the USPS Lady just put in my mailbox. The MENARDS • Santa Fe F3 Diesel Locomotive.
Gary
Gary, does this mean you'll revise the "The Battle of the Remotes" video?
Here's the new engine guys. I didn't want post anything until I ran these for at least 2 hours straight. I can report i had NO problems at all! The diesel horn is the only thing I didn't care for. The crew talk has many different sayings. I pulled an average of 5 cars but went up to 18 with no problem. It went around the layout at the same speed where ever the engine was. The front head light and back up light worked perfect. Al in all, this is a great deal for the money and a fantastic starter set. I would compare it to Lion Chef. See the the pictures, packing and the video and decide yourself..
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I think it's great! Menards could be the new K-Line or Williams someday.
@cabinet Bob posted:Here's the new engine guys. I didn't want post anything until I ran these for at least 2 hours straight. I can report i had NO problems at all! The diesel horn is the only thing I didn't care for. The crew talk has many different sayings. I pulled an average of 5 cars but went up to 18 with no problem. It went around the layout at the same speed where ever the engine was. The front head light and back up light worked perfect. Al in all, this is a great deal for the money and a fantastic starter set. I would compare it to Lion Chef. See the the pictures, packing and the video and decide yourself..
Bob
Thanks. Crew talk is very clear and seems to be plenty loud. Bell was good but that horn is a dog. Does seem to be doing good pulling. I do think it's a good engine for the price but I hope they change the horn. I'd also if possible open up the number boards. The hole is a bit distracting behind the boards but that is minor. I will be watching to see what others say.
How was the low end speed? The prime mover sounds didn't really come across in the video. How are they?
Cool! Bob - how was speed control? Comparable to LC or LC+? Is the sound easy to control to the volume desired?
Thanks.
@Ron_S posted:Alright, time to do some fun running and test that baby out!!!!
@Rail Dude posted:Gary, does this mean you'll revise the "The Battle of the Remotes" video?
Hi Ron S & Rail Dude:
Next week is my birthday and the grandchildren will be spending 4 nights with us, Grandma & grandpa. I will open it up when they are here and have two boys be my official testers. Ages 6 & 7. Let’s see if it is boy ready and boy proof.
Rail Dude: Yes I may have to re-think two of my YT Videos. (1) “The Battle of the Remotes” and (2) “Who will built the Amtrak Siemens Charger First • Lionel or MTH”. I would like to see MENARDS be the first to market with Amtrak Siemens Charger. The full scale version goes right by my train room.
I will be back in about 2 to 3 weeks with my test results. Thanks for watching.
Take care: Gary 🚂
Sigh. Mine is crawling between Menards’ Eau Claire complex and the nearest distribution center to Waukesha en route to my store. (I selected ship to store to avoid the extra cost.) It looks like I’ll be reading other reviews until mine finally arrives and is available for pickup.
@MartyE posted:Bob
Thanks. Crew talk is very clear and seems to be plenty loud. Bell was good but that horn is a dog. Does seem to be doing good pulling. I do think it's a good engine for the price but I hope they change the horn. I'd also if possible open up the number boards. The hole is a bit distracting behind the boards but that is minor. I will be watching to see what others say.
How was the low end speed? The prime mover sounds didn't really come across in the video. How are they?
Marty, the low end speed is ok, but when the power goes down , it stops. No low end speed. It does have plenty of power to pull at least 18 cars today. As far as the volume, I haven't found a way to turn it down yet ?
I would like to see some pictures under the hood. Someone could take the shell off and post some pictures, please?
@cabinet Bob posted:Marty, the low end speed is ok, but when the power goes down , it stops. No low end speed. It does have plenty of power to pull at least 18 cars today. As far as the volume, I haven't found a way to turn it down yet ?
Isn’t there a volume control on the remote?
As always, thanks for the great review and pictures of the new train Dad!
@cabinet Bob posted:Marty, the low end speed is ok, but when the power goes down , it stops. No low end speed. It does have plenty of power to pull at least 18 cars today. As far as the volume, I haven't found a way to turn it down yet ?
Cabinet Bob, Is there not a volume control in the upper right on your remote as pictured, or is it simply the volume is not controllable?
@RixTrack posted:It is my understanding that TMCC is open source. LionChief is not.
@H1000 posted:TMCC is open source but that doesn't mean you start building your own TMCC CAB-1 Base and remote and selling them without paying Lionel a royalty.
The TMCC code can be used freely to talk to a Lionel TMCC base and this is how MTH doesn't have to pay a single dime to Lionel for interfacing to a TMCC Base with a TIU. Because the end user still has to buy a TMCC Base from Lionel to use these TMCC features on their layout.
If memory serves me correct, it was one of Lionel's later CEO's or exec's that said making the TMCC code base free for anyone to use was big mistake and wish it would have never been done. I have to search for where I saw that quoted, it might just be hearsay. Legacy code base can be used by license only and I do believe MTH had to pay a licensing fee when they inserted Legacy specific options into their WIFI app. And again you have to purchase two pieces of Lionel hardware to use Legacy features in the app.
I hope Menards finds success with these locomotives and look forward to more offerings from them.
Calling TMCC open source is a bit of a misnomer. The only specifications I've seen released1 are those that control the TrainMaster Command Base via the RS-232 serial port. Even at that, you might still have to be careful marketing a product that was called TMCC or TrainMaster Command Control. Usually there is precedent for saying things like "TMCC Compatible" or whatnot.
The other thing is, the specification is not really even code. It's just a list of of the possible commands and the data words that they map to. While it was nice of Lionel to publish this, it would have been trivial to reverse engineer. The original intent was for it to be used to allow control by a computer.
Nothing about the 455 kHz command signal format, the signal decoding in the engine, or the 27 MHz and 2.4 GHz remote to base communications are public knowledge AFAIK. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. That said, the patents have long since expired, so reverse engineering either the 27 MHz or the 455 kHz signals is probably fair game - as long as you steer clear of the newer Legacy (a.k.a. TMCC II) extensions that were made to the signal, and of course don't directly market your product using Lionel's trademarked terms.
Not sure if the number boards are red or the light is red. The volume control on mine works fine--loud to soft. Speed control is good as well but it does come to quick stop and start -- that may improve with more use.
@Dewman51 posted:Speed control is good as well but it does come to quick stop and start -- that may improve with more use.
One could always wire the motors in series, like we do with Williams diesels. That will soften the "quick stop and start" motions of the loco.
While I’m not happy with it being too big for scale, the easy way to make this a nicer model would be to change the number board lighting. Make it a white rectangular bulb and it looks 100% better! I’m enjoying the pics and videos from everyone.
I haven't checked this thread in a while, so this question may already been asked/answered.
I'm curious: How does the new Menards F unit compare in SIZE to the Lionel PW F3?
Andre
@RoyBoy posted:One could always wire the motors in series, like we do with Williams diesels. That will soften the "quick stop and start" motions of the loco.
Good point Roy
John
So Cabinet Bob has given us some operating info, pulled 5 cars for an extended period, he maxed out at 18 cars. A little more info would be appreciated, flat track or grades, what type, age, weight, size of cars.
BNSF Matt had a battery compartment issue that he rectified, now can we get some operating info?
Dewman51 is very happy with his maybe he can give us some more details on how it's running?
@Rail Dude posted:
Cabinet Bob, Is there not a volume control in the upper right on your remote as pictured, or is it simply the volume is not controllable?
My bad,this is a prototype from a few years back. Yes, there is a volume control on the right side that works great.
@laming posted:I haven't checked this thread in a while, so this question may already been asked/answered.
I'm curious: How does the new Menards F unit compare in SIZE to the Lionel PW F3?
Andre
About 1 inch longer
