FA2 reviews?

Rob Leese posted:

After a lengthy search, I have still not found much information or comparisons regarding models of Alco FA units. I recently bought an unused set of ABA  MTH FA2's at a low price that I plan to repaint in two different Frisco black and yellow schemes.  But the models look too short. In photos, old chain drive Weaver FA models look more accurate, plus they have fixed pilots.  ¿quien sabe?

 

From what a friend told me, the ALCO FA1 and FA2 units are NOT the same length. The FA2 was supposedly 4 feet longer (in order to accommodate a steam generator), than the FA1 model. Maybe your model is really an FA1?

The Lionel ,mth, and Williams are all the same length

What is the item number on the set that you have?  Lionel, MTH, K-Line and Williams have all produced FA-2's that are "semi-scale" or about the size of the Lionel postwar 027 FA-2.  Lionel, MTH and Weaver have also produced scale models of the FA-2.  These are substantially larger than the semi-scale versions.  Williams produced a scale model of the FA-1 which is a good model with the exception of the trucks being too short.

FA-2's were 53' 6" long over the couplers.  Here is a diagram with dimensions.

http://prr.railfan.net/diagram...ie&sz=sm&fr=

FA-1's were 51' 6" long over the couplers.  Here is a diagram of this one.

http://prr.railfan.net/diagram...ie&sz=sm&fr=

My MPC 8020 has survived 45 years of rough play; being stored in a toybox (early on); and many, many hours of running.  With normal lubing and cleaning of the commutator face (and a replacement coupler to replace a loss incurred in the above-mentioned toybox), it runs today as well as it ever did, and it pulls more cars than the late postwar version did.

I'd heartily recommend it for anyone not hung up on scale.

Yes, the FA-2 was approx. 4 feet longer than the FA1. Before the FA-2, the FB-1 carried the steam generator if these were used in passenger service, obviously not an ideal solution. 

"In photos, old chain drive Weaver FA models look more accurate, plus they have fixed pilots.  ¿quien sabe?"

Lo se, mi amigo. Ahem. 

The Weaver FA-2 also came later in the 2-vertical-can-motors version, designed like Lionel, MTH and the rest. Still had the fixed pilot. I have one (I painted it for the NdeM, coincidentally - they had them) and it is a very nice loco. The pilot is part of the plastic body, but in the hands of an adult this is not an issue.

These are often bargains; I would not buy the chain-drive version. Some swear by them, but most people swear at them.

FA2's are only 2 feet longer than FA1s this being 53 feet 6 inches to 51 feet 6 inches. There are some sources that also claim that some FA2's were the same length as FA1s at 51'6" I can't find a solid verification of this however.

Bogie

Mostly satisfied with my 1st generation Weaver FAs-2s. They don't have the pulling power of later Lionel, MTH and Williams offerings but  they do look correct, scale -out appropriately and perform as expected for a 1980s purchase. With the fixed pilot and adding a few details (builders' plate, brass horns, Kadee coupler), they have provided admirable service on my B&O and NYC lines.

Thank you men for all the helpful replies.  This evening I have the following information to add relevant to the thread:
1.  The MTH models I bought are 30-2173-0 and 30-2173-3 advertised as FA-2 and FB-2.  The MTH info on the box states the overall length for the A unit as 12-1/4" translating to 49' (and since the model features Lionel claw type couplers, I don't find that information useful). The carbody by my measurement, not including couplers or diaphragms, is exactly 11" translating to 44'.
2.  The FB carbody is 10-1/2" translating to 42'.
3.  The SLSF Ry. bought and operated thirtytwo FA1's and sixteen FB1's.  There were no FA2's on the Frisco.
4.  Our friend Bob Bartizek provided us the information that was eluding me; clear mechanical drawing side views with dimensions for FA1's and FA2's.  Thank you, Bob.  That answers every question I had.  The mech indicates an FA1 length over-the-couplers as 51' 6".  This fact reveals the MTH "FA2" as being 4' 6" too short to be an FA2 or 2' 6" too short to be an FA1. 
All of this input has helped me decide on how I will proceed.
I sincerely hope to post pictures of repainted Alcos sometime in 2018.
This forum is truly a jewel.

photo credit: Joe McMillan

photo credit: unknown to me

Weaver, Lionel and MTH only made the Alco FA2 model.

Rob, your MTH FAs are Rail King models, correct?  Aren't these shorter than full scale?

Doug

Originally posted by Rob Leese:
Thank you men for all the helpful replies.  This evening I have the following information to add relevant to the thread:
1.  The MTH models I bought are 30-2173-0 and 30-2173-3 advertised as FA-2 and FB-2. 

The 30- Number indicates Railking models which are not Scale Length. So just like Lionel Traditional models, This could be a mix of Fa-1 and/or an Fa-2. Many posts above were assuming you were going for the scale version as you mention Weaver models chain drive version which only came in a Full Scale model. So what you basically did was make an unfair [depending on which model one roots for] " Apples to Oranges" comparison.

Only "Railking Scale" Models would be considered a bland but full scale model in the Railking line because in the beginning they were originally premier locos that measured scale abet with not a lot of add on details.

I posted:

"Yes, the FA-2 was approx. 4 feet longer than the FA1."

OLDBOGIE posted:

"FA2's are only 2 feet longer than FA1s this being 53 feet 6 inches to 51 feet 6 inches."

Based on the PRR diagrams posted earlier it does seem that there was a difference of 2 rather than 4 feet. And I see where the "4 feet" that I have always heard (and "saw") came from: based on the PRR diagrams, at least, the FA2's radiator opening was shortened and moved forward on the carbody. Therefore, that gap from radiator to end of the carbody is definitely greater than 2 feet. The 4 feet are an optical "delusion".

Good to know. 

Thanks again for the replies.  As a postscript, some day soon I will be offering an ABA set of Pennsy FA's on the FS forum at a very low price.

Well, 13 months later...

The top photo is an experiment searching for Frisco mandarin orange in rattle cans.  The satin Poppy Red is near precise. 

The boiler equipped F7A is Lionel Legacy, but all the Alcos came from my crude paint shop.   

And to repeat, these are FA2 and FB2's which is not what Frisco owned, but are close enough for me.

Fixed pilots: sub-scale PW/re-issued Lionel, Kusan/K-Line, Williams/WBB. These are FA2's.

Fixed pilots: Weaver full 1:48, both chain drive and later improved 2-motor design; these are FA2's

Prototype FA2's: these were longer than FA1's as there was room made at the end of the carbody/frame for a passenger steam heat system, if so equipped. The radiator opening at the end is placed farther inboard than that of the FA1.

Swinging pilots: Williams/WBB scale FA's - these are FA1's.

Swinging pilots: Other scale FA's - Lionel, MTH, other? All are FA2's, I think, but I am not sure. 

I have an ABA set of MTH Alco FA2s in the Erie livery.  They are a great looking set.  I do have questions about the MTH windshields.  The openings appear too large.  I have looked at photographs and the windshields appear to be not as large. Am I imagining this or is this the case?

I do not believe there has ever been an accurate, scale FA1.  3rd Rail is doing them now, but not in the PRR livery.  Don't need a FA2.

CAPPilot posted:

I do not believe there has ever been an accurate, scale FA1.  3rd Rail is doing them now, but not in the PRR livery.  Don't need a FA2.

3rd Rail not doing an FA-1 in Pennsy? Why would Scott give up the sales?

I know this is a little off the topic, but there was a mention of trying to match Frisco's Mandarin orange paint color.  I grew up in a Frisco town and had friends that worked for them.  The Mandarin Orange that Frisco used was Chevrolet Engine Orange.  Used to, you could get it in spray cans from the auto parts stores.  Hope that helps!

This is fun stuff when an old thread suddenly revives.  
Scott Mann is always good to keep us informed on the status of all the current projects. Having said that, I have seen nor heard nothing regarding the progress of the FA project.  My order is in 

Will the these FAs have a good smoke unit?

https://youtu.be/2TWKjWIml3g

A VIA Rail Canada FA and blue and yellow pasenger cars woud mae a nice set.

rex desilets posted:

CAPPilot posted:

I do not believe there has ever been an accurate, scale FA1.  3rd Rail is doing them now, but not in the PRR livery.  Don't need a FA2.

3rd Rail not doing an FA-1 in Pennsy? Why would Scott give up the sales?

Scott Man's target market is mostly 2 railers who want a decent FA-2. There are several FA-1 ALCo's made in brass out there. I personally tried to convince Mr. Mann to do a Scale FA-1 but past historical buying trends he didn't think many 3-railers would buy especially at his price point.

Maybe Scott can be convinced in a second run for PRR Fa-1's. In the Meantime the Williams FA-1 customized with Weaver trucks would be your bet bet for a Scale FA-1 in 3 rail.

Where can you get Weaver FA trucks?  Or do I need to buy the engine and throw away everything but the trucks?

 Then I would need to find an artisan to install them as well as full ERR and sound.

I too am looking for FA truck frames for a Weaver project.

NOTE Weaver AAR FA trucks are also under ALCo RS11's and RS3's.

There are also -4s (Lionel I think) but that was a Canadian thing although Nappa Valley bought some.