The E8's were a stunner for me. I really, really hope they don't get cancelled. I also hope the final product doesn't appear quite as green as the concept art shows.
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I agree Nick...but...shouldn't the color be black??? I am not the expert thus my question....
Alan
There's been much discussion on Penn Central "black". Allegedly there's the slightest, slightest, SLIGHTEST tinge of green in the formula. Norfolk Southern committed to replicating this on their PC Heritage unit. If you stare at it long enough, you can start to see the black on the body is ever so slightly lighter than the rest of the locomotive. However it is still virtually black and way darker than what Lionel has illustrated on these E8's.
Thanks for posting this thread. Just wanted to say thanks to LIONEL for all of the FRISCO items also.
Nick...I have gone to several of the PC discussion websites/blogs and for just a few exceptions, even ex-employee's have stated that PC used black. Check out the discussion on Railroad.net. Also, check out the Conrail Historical Society home page for a discussion about this very topic. That discussion does say that there may have been some DGLE units with PC logos but only because the logos were put on existing units that had not been re-painted yet. When a re-paint was done, black paint was used.
Alan
Originally Posted by leavingtracks:
Nick...I have gone to several of the PC discussion websites/blogs and for just a few exceptions, even ex-employee's have stated that PC used black. Check out the discussion on Railroad.net. Also, check out the Conrail Historical Society home page for a discussion about this very topic. I think these E-8 units should be black....
Alan
I agree with Alan. I can not remember any locomotives on PC being "green", even DLGE. I do remember, however that Conrail had some executive E units, possibly in DLGE.
Same here... these should be black. I've got my eye on these things for Amtrak patch jobs, but if they're not black, I'm not going to bite.
You will find all sorts of conflicting info out there. This is one of the better discussions I've found:
I think DLGE is about or is what is used on recent KCS locomotives and cars.
It is possile PC used up what green they had, then went to black.
Remember, one of the PC mating worms was painted red for a short period of time.
PC did used E units Amtrak did not buy on C/TOFC trains to get some mileage out of them.
Nick...that is the very discussion to which I am referring. Reading further down into the discussion is where it talks about when units were re-painted, then black was used. No picture I have shows the E-8 DGLE. I am not willing to say it never happened especially during the transition and there may well have been tuscan and DGLE units with the worm logo added to original PRR units, but I think when PC painted a locomotive, it was black paint that they used. Going to the Penn Central Online website, all of the pictures of the re-painted E-8 units with the worm logo are black or appear to be black. Hey, I am just trying to get a lively discussion going here..
Alan
The E8's as Lionel illustrated them are definitely way too green. I can only guess they [over]did it based on the reports that, on paper anyway, the paint is technically supposed to have some barely noticeable green tinge to it (the former employee jokes it was 100 gallons of black and 1 gallon of green). The reality is the real PC was so lazy and eager to cut costs they probably just ignored official specs and used plain black on the vast majority of their locomotives.
I'll go ahead and write to Lionel on this. They have done a PC paint correction in the past when they initially cataloged a green PC hopper and correctly changed it to black after customer feedback.
Just got done writing to Mike Reagan about it. Will report back when he responds. I'm guessing / hoping these models haven't hit the paint booths yet.
I saw MANY Penn Central units growing up, and I assure you they were black. I too am interested in the PC E-8's, but sort of hesitated when I saw the green sheen in the catalog. I hope they will be painted straight black...and how about some passenger cars to pull behind them? Did the PC E-units ever pull freight?
I will also order the PC N5B caboose. Nick, I assume you are aware that to date Lionel has used the wrong shade of green on their PC pieces (too blue), not to mention the wrong shade of blue on their Conrail units. I've actually sent them color chips and a bottle of Floquil so they could get the right color match, but to no avail...
The models are often a different shade than what is shown in the catalog. They might be practically black when produced.
Andrew
Originally Posted by PRRMiddleDivision:
Did the PC E-units ever pull freight?
Neal:
PC frequently assigned E-units to Flexi-Van Mail Trains 8 and 9 between the Meadows and Chicago and 10 and 11 between the Meadows and East Saint Louis.
Bob
The way I see it, the NS Heritage unit is what stirred the whole color controversy back up. They committed to replicating that tiny green tinge as was specified in official PC documents. The result still looks black at first glance, but after staring for a very long time you begin to see the SLIGHTEST tinge of green in the paint. In any event it's certainly way darker than what has been depicted in the catalog.
Mike did reply saying they have done their research and are painting the model based on the official PC specifications for green in the paint. I wrote back requesting him to please take a closer look at all the testimonials by historians and former employees about black being used on the locomotives and also to check this thread where we would all prefer to see the E8's in black. I also sent him a second message asking for a clarification after Alan pointed out to me they could possibly be replicating an ex-PRR unit with PC badges simply slapped over the original Brunswick paint as opposed to the full black repaint. If this is the case I would still rather see a pure PC repainted E8.
Bob,
Thanks for the info. I seem to recall photos of them hauling freight, but could not find any on a quick scan of a few of my PC books. Do you think using them to haul some 89' Atlas TOFC's would be too much of a stretch?
I do realize that the catalog renderings are often incorrect, and I'm hoping they put a bit of green in the catalog image to make the details show up a bit. I really would like to get a set. I have the soon to be released PRR 1960's era E-8's on order (keystones, stripes, number, but NO "PENNSYLVANIA" spelled out on the sides). I'd like to take an A unit from each pair and run them together for a dynamite looking consist circa 1968!
Another note about color...recall the PC 100 ton hopper that was originally cataloged in green when first announced. Several of us PC fans (myself included) complained to Lionel and they changed them to the correct black. I bought a whole case of six. They look great sprinkled in with PRR "yellow ball" or Conrail hoppers.
