Replies sorted oldest to newest
I do not know about the fast track switches using a driver board, but can these not be operated using the Lionel SC-2 switch controller? I have used these controllers on my Flyer layout and they are pretty simple to hook up.
Ray
Hi, I have a command control )-72 fastrack switch with a TMCC board that doesn't work. I tried getting the part from Lionel but they won't sell it to me but they will repair it (however the cost of repair and shipping is as much as I paid for the switch) but it was cheaper to buy a new one. So I am not sure they will sell the part to upgrade regular remote switches. If they do I would be very interested in the cost so I can fix my dead CC switch
rgross,
You are absolutely correct about not being able to purchase the part your self, however I would contact GGG or Guns to see if they might be able to purchase the part
for you as a Lionel Repair Tech. The parts still might be as expensive as purchasing a new FT CC switch, when Charlie N has them on sale each February however.
PCRR/Dave
Yes you can control the switches with a SC-2, but my layout is on the living room floor and I need to eliminate surface wiring from the switches to the SC-2.
Thanks for the info Dave !!
Rick,
Any time sir.
PCRR/Dave
After checking out the Motor Driver board of the non TMCC switch, I have concluded that the board is NOT suitable for directly converting Non TMCC switches to TMCC switches by just adding a connecting cable between the new Radio PCB and the old Motor Driver PCB. The reason is that the Radio PCB gets its power from the new modified Motor Driver board and requires +5V and the old Motor Driver PCB of the NON TMCC switch (part number 691-TRC3-F ) outputs track 3rd rail voltage and NOT the +5 volts that the TMCC Radio board requires. Using it without an external +5V regulator would damage the Radio board of the TMCC Switch.
I have successfully converted my Non TMCC switch to Command Control by installing a Radio board, new Motor Driver board, push button switch, and making up a connecting cable from the Radio board to the Motor driver board. It functions perfectly. Now wither or not this is COST effective to make the conversion is yet to be determined, but it was a fun project and proven doable.
I have successfully converted my Non TMCC switch to Command Control by installing a Radio board
Hi GeoK, would you mind sharing where you got the radio board? Since my switch works fine every other way I am thinking if I can replace it inexpensively that might be a way to go? Thanks for any info
Rick
Pine Creek Railroad Dave said "You are absolutely correct about not being able to purchase the part yourself."
Rick,
I got my Radio board from an authorized Lionel repair place. Let me check to see if they want any non local business. I get the impression that Lionel service policies are fussy and territorial. I would hate to cause my very nice service person any grief because of what Pine Creek Railroad Dave said.
George
Pine Creek Railroad Dave said "You are absolutely correct about not being able to purchase the part yourself."
Rick,
I got my Radio board from an authorized Lionel repair place. Let me check to see if they want any non local business.
Thanks George very much appreciated
COST ANALYSIS:
Lionel part # 691FTSWB01 PCB / Receiver / Fastrack Switch / TMCC $18.60
Lionel part # 691TRC4A01 PCB / Motor Driver / Fastrack Switch / TMCC $23.00
Lionel S/H $9.00 to Maryland.
E-Bay part # JST 2.0 PH8-Pin ( Female connector with leads + unneeded male connector) 10 for $8.99
E-Bay part # JST 1.5 ZH 5 Pin ( Female connector with leads + unneeded male connector) 10 for $6.49 [JST 1.5 ZH 6 PIN if converting using old Motor Driver PCB]
E-Bay S/H included free.
Digikey.com part # 679-2386-1-ND Switch Tactile SPST-NO $0.71
Digikey.com S/H $2.86 to Maryland.
Heat Shrinkable tubing and lead free solder.
5 minute Epoxy (To install the push button programing switch).
So, about $70 to do ONE switch plus cost of heat shrinkable tubing, epoxy, and solder.
I did FOUR switches for about $49 each plus the cost of heat shrinkable tubing, epoxy, and solder.
You save money on Lionel S/H and the JST connectors buy doing more than one switch. But......read on to the end of this thread. The price is going down WAY down.
I'm confused if the two boards cost $41.60 for one switch how you converted four for $49, can you do the math for me?
You missed the EACH after the $49
If I did the engineering, so as to use the old Motor Driver PCB, I could drive the cost down about another $15/switch or more, but I was lazy.
You're right, I skipped over that word. Given that, I think I'd just buy the factory command boards and sell my old ones used.
ElectricRR will soon offer a command control upgrade for the non-command control remote switches. We expect to have these in stock in a few months.
Very cool Jon, that's a great idea! Any "sneak peek" of what it will look like and cost?
It will be the same radio as sold in the command switches with a 5v power supply addition. It will fit in the same mounting slot under the switch and plug right into the TRC3 PCB. Easy, simple, upgrade. Soon as we have the boards in stock, we will post instructions.
jon,
Great upgrade, will they be available to the general public, or will this availability just be for the Lionel repair Techs?
PCRR/Dave
Sounds like a great idea, I have a bunch of switches I'd like to upgrade.
ElectricRR will soon offer a command control upgrade for the non-command control remote switches. We expect to have these in stock in a few months.
Now I wonder where ElectricRR got that idea?
This was planned for over a year. We had to design a new PCB, write instructions, and wait for the board to be manufactured. The PC boards are due in next month (4 -5 month lead times).
ElectricRR will soon offer a command control upgrade for the non-command control remote switches. We expect to have these in stock in a few months.
Now I wonder where ElectricRR got that idea?
Probably from the fact that there are switches without command control out there.
This was planned for over a year. We had to design a new PCB, write instructions, and wait for the board to be manufactured. The PC boards are due in next month (4 -5 month lead times).
You guys are always thinking! I await the sensor equipped boxcar or caboose next!
ElectricRR will soon offer a command control upgrade for the non-command control remote switches. We expect to have these in stock in a few months.
Now I wonder where ElectricRR got that idea?
If you had waited a couple months, you could have done the job for less.
ElectricRR will soon offer a command control upgrade for the non-command control remote switches. We expect to have these in stock in a few months.
Now I wonder where ElectricRR got that idea?
If you had waited a couple months, you could have done the job for less.
That remains to be seen . But it will certainly be a smooth install process.
Chuck, if this upgrade costs $50 or more, it'll probably not be cost effective for many folks. In that case I'd just sell the Fastrack remote switches and pick up the command versions.
Obviously, I can't speak for ERR, but I don't see the sense in this upgrade if it's not cost effective.
Guns,
I agree if the upgrade to the switches cost $50.00 and you can get a new FT CC on sale for $65.00, better to just purchase a new FT CC switch, and sell the manual & controller.
However if you have 072 switches thru out your layout or anything larger than an 048 for that matter, and the cheapest you can get them is for around $86.00, now that is a different matter. Saving $35.00 on each switch, on a layout with 20 or 30 switches, is serious money.
PCRR/Dave
And you get to sell some SC-2s.
Wonder what the transmitter sends...code about the engine, name, number, etc.? When the track responds to any engine, does it look for a specific word? What would it take to just transmit that?
The IR transmitter has basically what the orange module has. If you run the locomotive over the sensor, it fills in the road name, number, etc.
It transmits a ***LOT*** more information than the orange module has!
- Diagnostic data
- labor
- speed
- lashup position
- direction of travel
- crude odometer
- runtime on loco
- road name
- road number
- touch screen info
- speed limit
- EOT indication
- and more!
Thanks for the clarification. I did know there was more, I should have been more specific.
This was planned for over a year. We had to design a new PCB, write instructions, and wait for the board to be manufactured. The PC boards are due in next month (4 -5 month lead times).
Why design a new PCB? The existing Motor Driver board was obviously designed by Lionel to both take a switch command, coming from the Radio board, and output track voltage to a Radio PCB. The cost should be under $5 to add the external 5V regulator necessary to drop that track voltage from the old Motor Driver PCB, to the +5V necessary for the new Radio PCB. That would save $23-$5=$18 by not having to buy a new Motor Driver board. This drives the cost down to $31 per switch, to do 4 switches, or $27 per switch to do 10 Switches.
I'll bet there was a reason. Why did you have to buy the motor driver board if they didn't need to make a new one?
Thanks for the clarification. I did know there was more, I should have been more specific.
Well at first I was wondering just what had to be transmitted to be seen...and maybe start a program.
I'll bet there was a reason. Why did you have to buy the motor driver board if they didn't need to make a new one?
I guessed that was just to duplicate the CC switch without knowledge of what was missing on the motor drive board. But with the info Jon provided, it sounds like the 5vdc was all that was missing...TRC3 to TRC4. Although...seems like there is one, maybe just not in the right place.
I'm guessing we'll see what the board consists of when it's revealed.
I'm guessing we'll see what the board consists of when it's revealed.
No fun...
Why did you have to buy the motor driver board if they didn't need to make a new one?
I bought the new Motor Driver board for convenience and proof of concept.
I do not know what functions ElectricRR's designed board are to perform. I made my decision before making a more careful analysis of what it would take to use the current Motor Driver board. Adjusting the current board's output voltage down to 5V is pretty straight forward. The Radio PCB probably draws very little current and you get away with a very small +5V supply that is external to the old Motor Driver PCB. I would have to take current measurements to confirm that hypothesis.
The second variable would be the compatibility of the command to switch, coming from the new Radio PCB, and interfacing this with the requirements of the old Motor Driver PCB's input. I do not know if we have a logic output, contact closure, short to ground, ect.
If the output of the Radio PCB and the input of the old Motor Driver PCB were incompatible without a simple solution........that would require a special PCB. That PCB would have to contain both the interface and the required +5V supply. It might be more cost effective to just buy a new Motor Driver PCB, which will interface very nicely with the new Radio PCB straight forward pin to pin and is already +5V compatible. Just add the home made interconnecting cable.
Sounds like a great idea, I have a bunch of switches I'd like to upgrade.
Me toooooooooooo
From a practical point of view, I am trying to decide if I should go through the trouble to add the data terminal to my 4 converted fastrack switchs or not bother. It would cost $3.10 per switch. No info in the manual as to the uses for the data terminal.
Gunrunnerjohn had this to say about the data terminal:
Here's a reply I've found, though I haven't actually tested it, I believe it was from a Lionel person on their blog.
It is the data and com line, similar to the command base cable used to drive devices such as ASC/AMC/ARC, etc. The Data terminal is essentially a +5VDC communication line used to drive the old IC Controls line of devices, so a cable does not need to be run from the command base. If a command switch is in a close proximity to these devices you can use DAT and common to drive those devices.
Thank you John.
What I don't know is how popular is the use of that data terminal.
I haven't even verified if this is true, but it kinda' makes sense. Since the serial data link from the command base is somewhat of an Achilles Heel for some folks configurations, having it distributed is kinda' neat. This would allow you to have stuff like a TPC, BPC, etc. remotely and not have to run the data line back to the command base.
Current drain of the Radio PCB at +5V is about 5ma. Not very much, but I could not find a +5V source on the old Motor Driver PCB. The 5V Voltage Regulator on the board did not measure +5V in reference to ground and that is what is needed.
With the new Radio PCB facing you and the white PCB connector to your lower right and antenna lead to your left, I will call the terminal furthest from the antenna lead terminal #8. I connected that terminal #8 on the Radio board to the terminal marked OSW on the old Motor Driver PCB and Terminal #7 of the Radio PCB to the Motor Driver PCB terminal marked TSW. I connected #5 of the Radio PCB (Ground) to the (GND) terminal of the old Motor Driver PCB and also to the negative of the external 5V power supply. I connected #4 of the Radio PCB (+5V in) to the positive of the external external 5V supply.
Viola!!!!
The switch works perfectly with the OLD MOTOR DRIVER PCB and saves the cost of $23 for a new Motor Driver PCB and settled my compatibility pinout questions between the Radio PCB and the old Motor Driver PCB. My guess now is that the soon to be released ElectricRR PCB and conversion kit is little more than an external +5V supply and perhaps some way to address the need for a blinking LED to indicate programing in progress.
I will now research a cheap way to get that +5V that is needed by the Radio PCB.
The +5V power supply can consist of 3 components, a diode, a cap, and the voltage regulator. I built one for less than $3. Any silicon diode rated at 50V, 100 ma or more will due. I used a 220MF cap rated at 35V. The regulator I chose is a NTE977 (+5V, 100ma). You can build this power supply even cheaper than this if you buy in bulk and shop for a generic voltage regulator on ebay. Do not use a bridge rectifier because one side of the AC source (track voltage) and the negative side of the 5V supply are common. I powered up the Radio PCB and it worked fine with this simple supply.
I will next address the track LED problem, since the old Motor Driver PCB does not provide for this. What I have found out so far, is that pin#2 of the Radio board outputs a constant +2.2V until the programing push button is activated. It then cycles from +2.3 to near zero. You can not use that to power the track LED directly because of the current required. As it looks now, the total conversion to command control for the fastrack switch should come in for under $25. The greatest part of that cost is the $18.60 for the missing Radio PCB from Lionel.
To address the LED problem, I did the following:
I used the cheap and simple (3 component) +5V power supply I described earlier as my power source for both the Radio PCB and the track signal LED.
Connect from the +5V a 200 ohm 1/4 watt resistor to the emitter lead of a 2N4403 PNP switching transistor. Connect the collector to ground. Connect the base lead through a 10K ohm 1/8 watt resistor to what I called the #2 terminal of the Radio PCB. Remove the LED lead going to the OLD Motor Driver PCB connector (marked MOT+, MOT-, LED, GND ) and connect it instead directly to the Emitter of the 2N4403. ALL DONE!! (3 components).
How the circuit works is this way. The transistor is in parallel with the LED. It does not normally conduct and thus the LED stays lit and is current limited by the 200 ohm resistor. When the programing push button is pressed and held for a few seconds, an intermittent signal from the Radio PCB will arrive through a current limiting 10K ohm resistor to the base of the 2N4403 and turns the transistor on and off thus shorting and un-shorting the LED causing it to blink and indicate that the switch is accepting programing.
Dirt cheap. 2N4403 $0.40, 200 ohm $0.50, 10K ohm $0.40. and much cheaper still on eBay.
If someone would like, I can draw up the 2 schematics for the +5v supply and the LED driver. Otherwise I think I'm all done with the conversion project.
It sure was fun