Insulated rail locations for conventional block control help

Hi Kirk R.,

It is my understanding that blocks are created in a conventional operation mode for two reasons:

1. Power supply issues because of the amperage requirements  of PulMor engines as multiple units and incandescent lighted cars.
2. Train control - to be able to "park" a train on a siding while operating another.

These can apply to command systems also . One can MU or lashup enough modern engines to require power districts with multiple transformers.

DCS has it own nuances - you can find multiple threads about keeping the watchdog signal on sidings where an engine or engines will be parked.

More about this later.

From top to bottom:

1. The crossover isolation between the two lines is ok
2. The O31 inner loop - I don't see a need to isolate the crossing. In fact, I would remove this and just put a second spur in. This will reverse the train direction without a way to reverse back. It would also eliminate issue#3. 
3. The cross tracks for the trolley line will need some surgery (modification) to isolate the center rail from the main line crossing.
4. The yard spurs are ok - can kill power to park engine or turn off lighted passenger cars
5. The rest are technically ok. I am not sure if you will have problems with the non-derail of the switches or engines stopping by having the isolation directly at the turnout. There is a dead common already and then a break (isolation joint) is the center rail. Moving those away from the turnout about 3" would resolve that concern and create a nice transition location and trigger rail for the non-derail feature.

That's my take on it. Hopefully you'll get some more input.

Back to dead sidings with DCS engines - there is a recent thread on this and the solution. It's a technical issue that the electricals guys and resolved and made a little easier to understand. What will happen is a DCS will go into conventional mode when power is applied to a dead siding after powering up the layout and control system resulting in them taking off or moving.

I'll try to find it for you and post it in a new reply.

Here is the thread discussing the DCS watchdog signal loss and an approach to controlling block/siding power via the AIU in DCS.

relays for track power using AIU

gunrunnerjohn and stan worked on this issue last year in an extensive thread. GRJ works with his club that have multiple sidings for a modular layout that travels that also operates with both DCS and TMCC/Legacy. They had issues with DCS engines. He found a way to get the DCS watchdog signal to the engines while the main track power was off.

You could search back and find the topic to further blur your eyes.

Thanks Moonman.  I did see gunrunnerjohn and stan's discussion and will refer to it when I really jump into DCS but with ability to run conventional as well in isolated blocks.  I do have Rob Adelman's book on DCS (2002) and will read that as well as get the most recent companion guide just to make sure the migration into DCS is without issue.  I've read that adding Legacy to that (somewhat later, if at all) will be fairly straightforward if the DCS system works well. 

This is a layout for running trains and operating accessories as would interest kids less than 10 years old.  So no pressure to add realistic scenery at this time unless kids get involved.

The city trolley has those isolated rails so that I can run a back and forth while still running around the city loop.  If I want to go through the reverse I'd park the trolley to the left and cut off that spur's power. 

Kirk R posted:

Thanks Moonman.  I did see gunrunnerjohn and stan's discussion and will refer to it when I really jump into DCS but with ability to run conventional as well in isolated blocks.  I do have Rob Adelman's book on DCS (2002) and will read that as well as get the most recent companion guide just to make sure the migration into DCS is without issue.  I've read that adding Legacy to that (somewhat later, if at all) will be fairly straightforward if the DCS system works well. 

This is a layout for running trains and operating accessories as would interest kids less than 10 years old.  So no pressure to add realistic scenery at this time unless kids get involved.

The city trolley has those isolated rails so that I can run a back and forth while still running around the city loop.  If I want to go through the reverse I'd park the trolley to the left and cut off that spur's power. 

 

Is it a an EZ-Streets crossing or a regular 90 track crossing? I see, you don't plan on using the train cross while the Trolley is running and vice-versa.

I was thinking like Gomez Adams and the thrill of a collision.

Well, it looks like you should be good to go. Just try to move the switch isolation points a little further away. You'll see for yourself if you build the O31 first.

I forgot to ask what track you will be using?  

Check the DCS book and see if it recommends switching the common on/off for power kills. That my prevent the watchdog signal loss to engines parked on a spur.

No EZ-Streets.  Inner city loop, trolley and yard is basically O31 Lionel tubular.  All the rest is Ross with Ross bed, Gargrave flexible and Ross switches.  

Haven't considered yet where uncoupler track would go.  I figure just inside a turnout to a siding?  If it's a passing siding would I put an uncoupler at either end?  

Thanks for your insight.

The uncoupler needs to be at point where both the couplers and trucks are lined up straight. I would be concerned about pushing cars in and uncoupling on a curve.

The passing siding shouldn't need uncouplers. A whole train would be there. If you left a whole set of cars, I am not sure that you could couple up to them. There's nothing to bump into to close the couplers. So, just a power cutoff is needed.