Lionel's New Theater Car

J Daddy posted:

Well I am excited to hear about this new product and quickly signed up to order one mainly because I have been looking for more Union Pacific Excursion cars.

Except the photo in the Lionel catalog does NOT match the UP Fox Valley (former CNW car).

Seems to be a neat idea, but at a MSRP of $349 seems astronomical!  I can't see myself reserving the funds for such.

I think the camera is focused out the back of the car to deliver the view out of the back of the train.

I like the car, with that said I wish it was an 18" model and could be purchased without the camera for a reasonable cost. And an Amtrak version if that is not asking too much.

I have seen the Amtrak one on a few occasions on the rear of the Lake Shore Limited.

Paul

Railrunnin posted:

I like the car, with that said I wish it was an 18" model and could be purchased without the camera for a reasonable cost. And an Amtrak version if that is not asking too much.

I have seen the Amtrak one on a few occasions on the rear of the Lake Shore Limited.

Paul

 The Amtrak theater car "American View" is a converted viewliner sleeper that looks nothing like Lionel's model.  It's a completely different car that would take completely different tooling to make. 

To me it appears that no additional hardware is needed other than an App from Apple or Android.  I suspect you will need a WiFi service in your home or wherever you will operate this.  A small simple wireless router would due.  Of course I haven't seen one but I doubt a Lionel LCS WiFi module is required.

Hot Water posted:

J Daddy posted:

Well I am excited to hear about this new product and quickly signed up to order one mainly because I have been looking for more Union Pacific Excursion cars.

Except the photo in the Lionel catalog does NOT match the UP Fox Valley (former CNW car).

Exactly. I won't be ordering one for THAT reason.

Neat idea for those who like gizmos.  Nothing wrong with that either.

Hot Water posted:

J Daddy posted:

Well I am excited to hear about this new product and quickly signed up to order one mainly because I have been looking for more Union Pacific Excursion cars.

Except the photo in the Lionel catalog does NOT match the UP Fox Valley (former CNW car).

Yeah, Lionel did take some artistic license here. AS ALWAYS, its tough to know what we are going to get. But I am not taking the risk of these being sold out.

Gpritch posted:

Seems to be a neat idea, but at a MSRP of $349 seems astronomical!  I can't see myself reserving the funds for such.

I think the camera is focused out the back of the car to deliver the view out of the back of the train.

Looks like pricing is around 255.00. Similar, but slightly higher than a station sounds diner.

How big is the camera? seems there will be seats and people in the back of the car...

MartyE posted:

To me it appears that no additional hardware is needed other than an App from Apple or Android.  I suspect you will need a WiFi service in your home or wherever you will operate this.  A small simple wireless router would due.  Of course I haven't seen one but I doubt a Lionel LCS WiFi module is required.

Will you be able to direct the video to your lap top?

Curse you JDaddy!  You just gave me an idea...

Since it's plastic, it wouldn't be hard to modify to the correct UP version.  Some sheet plastic, filler, paint, decals and it would be done.

Now I have to think this over....

86TA355SR posted:

Curse you JDaddy!  You just gave me an idea...

Since it's plastic, it wouldn't be hard to modify to the correct UP version.  Some sheet plastic, filler, paint, decals and it would be done.

Now I have to think this over....

I figure best to get one out of the chute... and if its a dud, throw it on the Bay... not sure if they will get the roof line right with the rear markers... maybe that is where the camera is?

J Daddy posted:

Will you be able to direct the video to your lap top?

It appears so from the text in the description you will be able to see the video on a PC.  You will still need a Wifi network connection for the camera.  Of course both the camera and the PC will have to reside on the same network.

Disappointing!  New tooling, you would think they could would get it accurate.  Also would think they would sell more at the "normal" 18/19-inch size then for the relatively few with 20/21-inch cars.  

Which is it:  do you want accurate or shortened?

The basic problem is that each of these cars is home grown and started as some other form of car. The catalogue clearly states this is a model of the Conrail car. In that form it is reasonably accurate, as a Dark Future CSX car it is wrong. The car has been modified at least twice in that period. Nowhere does it state road specific detailing. Maybe Lionel will jump in and answer as to how much if at all the car will change between roadnames. There are many variables, size and placement of windows  on the sides, The placement and number of lights on the rear,(some above and below the picture window), the marker lights, the provision for the roll up screen if it has it, etc. With modern slide tooling some of this may be possible without incurring too most cost.  Not only that, the specific cars have been modified over time, so even if they try, depending on what variation of your specific car is, it may not be produced as that version.

Having said all of this, I'm in. Unless you go brass I doubt your going to see anybody else jump in and produce something similar.  Because it is plastic I plan on modifying it if it isn't close enough. My only request of Lionel would be to put the 6 wheel trucks from their full dome car on the NS version. It is the only prototype of the bunch riding on 6 wheel trucks. I realize they wouldn't be the correct trucks but a lot closer the the 4 wheel ones.    I'm not too big on the camera, but we'll see.  Enough for now.

Steve

I think its neat as hell.  Sure i always want the most accurate model I can get.  Do I wish they were cheaper sure. Price doesn't really bother me though.  i suspect around 250 street price.   Im personally pulling the trigger on a UP and CSX because i ordered both trains.  If the camera is crap then they still look to be neat observations.   I'd rather take the gamble than the risk of not pulling the trigger.      

palallin posted:

Which is it:  do you want accurate or shortened?

And you are operating "your" 21/22-inch cars on O-250!

L & N posted:

The basic problem is that each of these cars is home grown and started as some other form of car. The catalogue clearly states this is a model of the Conrail car. In that form it is reasonably accurate, as a Dark Future CSX car it is wrong. The car has been modified at least twice in that period. Nowhere does it state road specific detailing. Maybe Lionel will jump in and answer as to how much if at all the car will change between roadnames. There are many variables, size and placement of windows  on the sides, The placement and number of lights on the rear,(some above and below the picture window), the marker lights, the provision for the roll up screen if it has it, etc. With modern slide tooling some of this may be possible without incurring too most cost.  Not only that, the specific cars have been modified over time, so even if they try, depending on what variation of your specific car is, it may not be produced as that version.

Having said all of this, I'm in. Unless you go brass I doubt your going to see anybody else jump in and produce something similar.  Because it is plastic I plan on modifying it if it isn't close enough. My only request of Lionel would be to put the 6 wheel trucks from their full dome car on the NS version. It is the only prototype of the bunch riding on 6 wheel trucks. I realize they wouldn't be the correct trucks but a lot closer the the 4 wheel ones.    I'm not too big on the camera, but we'll see.  Enough for now.

Steve

Now let's see, the Conrail RR is shuttered up as of the 1999's.  Where as the NS and UP are contemporary and operating now.  And from the pictures posted above the NS and UP cars look a lot alike.  So why model them?!

If you are into the CSX that another thing.

I really like the idea, so I am ordering the NS version If they do it well I will also get the CSX, and if not, then oh well. I am not even sure if i am getting the CSX F40.

PRRronbh posted:

palallin posted:

Which is it:  do you want accurate or shortened?

And you are operating "your" 21/22-inch cars on O-250!

PRRronbh,

What has curve size got to do with accuracy? Just because you might have smaller curves that limit your purchases to shorter cars does not make shorter cars accurate.

These are just my opinion.

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Hmm... maybe we will see the prototype at York?

@T1Titan_ZachF posted:

I hope to be ordering the NS one as well. My question is where the camera will be placed on the end of the car. I am also puzzled on why Lionel did't make the Amtrak theater car, I guess maybe they didn't because they would have to make a new mold to fit the view-liner aspect of the car. 

Truly yours,

Zach Ferreira

SIRR Productions

VP of the Somerset County 4-H Trainmasters

If they did the American View, they may have well done regular viewliners. 

count me in for a UP one!!

Well, if they release that car in a BNSF version, it will REALLY miss the mark.

I caught this one in Grand Forks, ND, while visiting my son in 2015. Looks like it started life as a bi-level commuter car.

I'll be ordering the UP, accurate or not. Too cool to pass up.

I have just pulled the trigger on the UP version for much the same reasons as other people have given for doing so. I have come around to the view that Lionel passenger cars of more recent vintage, and especially the 21" ABS cars, are really just a representation of the real thing rather than a scale replica or even a near replica. That is 3 rail O gauge for you - especially the fact that one set of tooling is used to produce all the bodies and the difference between railroads is just in the paint scheme.  In fact, the UP Fox River car seems to me to be closer to the prototype than the other road names they are offering.

Note to JDaddy: I wouldn't expect these cars to have any passenger/theater-goer figures in them; none of the 21" ABS cars issued to date do but it's easy enough to add them if you have either Lionel's or MTH's Railking figures.  

I am more interested in the internal seating and other details. A while back, Lionel mentioned (through Mike R.) that the first ABS cars would be "generic" in terms of interior details and indeed they were as all of them were based, not just inside but out in terms of exterior details, on the ESE set that was the first road name released. Later sets he said would be prototypical. The UP Excursion set has to be different outside because the originals were ACF built and are very different from the Lionel streamline cars issued to date. I hope they are modelling the prototype Excursion interiors as well, as those are very distinctive. We'll see.

And since we're talking a bit about mismatched cars, there's Amtrak's "Beach Grove" which too would need all new tooling.

Great idea but I am sticking with video camera on a flat car for my filming.  Not knocking these cars.  Still think they are neat and yes...a little on the pricey side.  BigRail

“I have come around to the view that Lionel passenger cars of more recent vintage, and especially the 21" ABS cars, are really just a representation of the real thing rather than a scale replica or even a near replica. That is 3 rail O gauge for you –“

That is not exactly accurate. The theater car is based on one prototype – the Conrail #9 at one point in its life. True, the rest of the names are close and as you suggest, just a representation of the prototype.

“In fact, the UP Fox River car seems to me to be closer to the prototype than the other road names they are offering.”

The Fox River Car, as is all the other cars that are not Conrail #9 are close to various degrees. The bottom line is there is no other option for now. Not crazy about the camera, but, I can see where the technology is going if this works out, and for that reason, I hope these cars are successful.

“The UP Excursion set has to be different outside because the originals were ACF built and are very different from the Lionel streamline cars issued to date.”

This is a good point and I have hope for these especially after seeing how well Lionel did with the rivet detail on the die cast GG1’s. I’m not a plastic extrusion expert, but it looks to be a difficult task to add details to existing tooling. We shall see.

Charlie

Charlie posted:

“The UP Excursion set has to be different outside because the originals were ACF built and are very different from the Lionel streamline cars issued to date.”

This is a good point and I have hope for these especially after seeing how well Lionel did with the rivet detail on the die cast GG1’s. I’m not a plastic extrusion expert, but it looks to be a difficult task to add details to existing tooling. We shall see.

Charlie

I think we are the same page as they say. Regarding your point quoted above, I am NOT a rivet counter but MTH have duplicated the ACF cars (including rivets) in ABS so I am sure Lionel can do it too. I don't think Lionel can add to existing tooling because (as far as I know) they don't have any they can use for this purpose.

Incidentally, I really wanted to have a rivet version of the GG1 but backed off because of the QC issues.

Well,

My initial reaction was $340 is stinking expensive for one car. The WiFi camera sort of eases the sting. Streaming live video would be pretty nice.

I would never pay for a Passenger car worth 340 because a wifi camera to watch from the back when our club has the chop chop camera. They could of sold these for 99.99 without cameras

A lot of good questions in this thread... let me try to answer as many as I can.  The car - we chose the Conrail prototype because it was the best match for the CR and CSX office car trains we have already cataloged. The NS and UP cars are not an exact match, but we know these are both popular roads and the cars will also make a nice addition to our UP excursion consist. Unfortunately I still can't comment on future catalog projects, but feel free to read anything you'd like into the NS car. Changing side slides and details to match each railroad's car is just not in the tooling budget and really wouldn't be practical from a manufacturing perspective.  Six wheel trucks for Buena Vista however are being looked at and once we have the new 6 wheel trucks for the dome, so long as there are no mechanical limitations preventing it, I will see to it that we put these trucks on this car. (Again, not an exact match, but it gets you a little closer...) There will be working LED lights on the rear of the car. Of course all the LEDs will stay flicker-free with the caps. If the cars do well and people enjoy the features, additional "fantasy" paint schemes on the theater cars are also possible down the line.

The camera - The wi-fi camera will be mounted in the isle between the seats inside the back of the car. We have tested this on a 3-D printed mock up in our office and the view is awesome! The camera is also very inconspicuous when looking at the car from the outside. You do not need the Lionel wi-fi module to use this car. The app is a stand-alone download. Put the car on your layout, download the app and away you go. If you can connect your tv or monitor to your pc, you can watch your layout on the big screen. Picture quality is really great and as long as the wi-fi signal was strong, we could enjoy the view from all over the office. I think you'll have a lot of fun with these.

It is our hope that we'll have a sample of this car complete in time for April York. If anyone is attending the show in Springfield this weekend, please stop by the Lionel booth. We do have some first tooling samples on display of the UP baggage car and PRR Tower View obs as well as plenty of other goodies! You can also try out the new LionChief app and universal remote. Looking forward to seeing you there!

Preorder prices are going to be well below $300. It should put out a wifi signal and it will appear on your list of wifi network connections available to your phone or laptop. My question is whether it will have a selectable channels or just be default channel 6. If not you could get interference from nearby wifi devices.

The big plus for having the passenger car with the built in wifi is that you don't to fool with a rechargeable battery like for the add on cameras or additional hardware to power the camera. You can do it yourself but by the time you buy a RR car, camera, and extra hardware to power it you are over $200.

The passenger car could also be reversed and put in front of your engine to get ahead of the engine view. I would have preferred the camera near the top of a double stack for front or rear views.

Ryan,

Thanks for your response, you have answered my questions. I certainly hope those 6 wheel trucks fit on the NS version!  As far as fantasy goes there are plenty out there: There is another NS, nee N&W car which became IC which became CN, others I'm sure.

Steve

Conrail6358 posted:

A lot of good questions in this thread... let me try to answer as many as I can.  The car - we chose the Conrail prototype because it was the best match for the CR and CSX office car trains we have already cataloged. The NS and UP cars are not an exact match, but we know these are both popular roads and the cars will also make a nice addition to our UP excursion consist. Unfortunately I still can't comment on future catalog projects, but feel free to read anything you'd like into the NS car. Changing side slides and details to match each railroad's car is just not in the tooling budget and really wouldn't be practical from a manufacturing perspective.  Six wheel trucks for Buena Vista however are being looked at and once we have the new 6 wheel trucks for the dome, so long as there are no mechanical limitations preventing it, I will see to it that we put these trucks on this car. (Again, not an exact match, but it gets you a little closer...) There will be working LED lights on the rear of the car. Of course all the LEDs will stay flicker-free with the caps. If the cars do well and people enjoy the features, additional "fantasy" paint schemes on the theater cars are also possible down the line.

The camera - The wi-fi camera will be mounted in the isle between the seats inside the back of the car. We have tested this on a 3-D printed mock up in our office and the view is awesome! The camera is also very inconspicuous when looking at the car from the outside. You do not need the Lionel wi-fi module to use this car. The app is a stand-alone download. Put the car on your layout, download the app and away you go. If you can connect your tv or monitor to your pc, you can watch your layout on the big screen. Picture quality is really great and as long as the wi-fi signal was strong, we could enjoy the view from all over the office. I think you'll have a lot of fun with these.

It is our hope that we'll have a sample of this car complete in time for April York. If anyone is attending the show in Springfield this weekend, please stop by the Lionel booth. We do have some first tooling samples on display of the UP baggage car and PRR Tower View obs as well as plenty of other goodies! You can also try out the new LionChief app and universal remote. Looking forward to seeing you there!

Hi Ryan

In the catalog, the NS car is colored to a much lighter color than in real life. Will this be fixed? I am really excited to get one of these. 

Max

Props to Conrail6358 for his comprehensive post.

Conrail6358 posted:

....We do have some first tooling samples on display of the UP baggage car .....

Now we're talking!  Can't wait to see the pictures!

Greenline posted:

Preorder prices are going to be well below $300. 

"Street" price is about $250.

Kudos to Lionel for bringing us the UP Excursion Train and making sure it is done correctly.  I'd rather wait than be disappointed.  Personally, I think it's going to be a home run!

I may have to get one of the theater cars and modify to prototype.

Well there you go guys. Cannot wait to see it at York! I am ordering one for sure.

J Daddy posted:

Well there you go guys. Cannot wait to see it at York! I am ordering one for sure.

What he said