This is like receiving a monthly injection of motivation. Your RR is amazing!

Once again, looking amazing Elliot!

When you finish and ready  to show, I hope OGR will run a complete issue titled :

My dream/nightmare layout...

Larry

Love all the work you guys are doing! I would go crazy trying to figure all that out. I cant wait till the next update.

WOW!!!!!!!! Totally amazing !!!!

Alex 

elliot glad crew came back and as usual a lot has been accomplished! You say north switch panel complete so are all switches controlled now? Or do you mean the panel wiring is finished? 

So is Roseville a forced perspective view?  pun intended looks good so maybe this year all tracks will be laid?

Just gets better with each update. I bet it's nice to finally have some help again. Already looking forward to the next update, I really enjoy these and watching your progress. And an amazing layout too.

Thanks gang! I have to say, having just a little help has made a huge difference in my attitude. I was really dragging after just a few months without. I'm glad I'm able to provide some of you with motivation to work on your own layouts.

Larry - Not sure about a whole issue, but a good sized article would be nice. I gave a good deal of thought to this topic title when I started it three and a half years ago, and the Dream/Nightmare part has never changed, just what comes after that, to reflect what is going on.

Ray - That's correct, all the switches controlled by the north panel are fully functional. The south panel is almost done too. There are 6 switches at Newport, 2 at Prescott, 2 at Cottage Grove, and one at the base of the big helix, then they're all done. And yes, I think this is going to be the year that the track is finally finished.

It took me 2 days reading this off and on to get through the entire thread.   What a read.  Being a benchwork guy and having done track work on occasion I can fully appreciate all of the hard work, sweat, splinters and cuts that went into this.  I personally do not know if I would ever take on a project this large ^{_{(i'd need some help)}} and I do this professionally!

 Congrats on what you and your team have accomplished so far and I genuinely look forward to reading your next installment.  

Elliot ..,. cottage grove my mother had a friend move there when it was out in middle of nowhere. now it's all grown together! 

my bad boy is at lionel tech hopes it behaves today to ship back I have affectionately renamed it as above! 

Now that both switch panels almost done what will it take to install to your computer setup jmri sorry I might have misnamed it but will it take a lot of wiring or more of getting computer and program to play nice with each other? 

as I always say to rest of forum members you truly have to see this layout in person it really is a work of art and love and Elliot and wife are fantastic hosts.

have a great day Elliot run a train for me ok.

MRB - Thanks! That's quite the compliment coming from someone who does this for a living. This has been a labor of love, it has also been spread out over 8 years (actually 13, but 5 were lost to health problems). It is a rare person indeed who takes the time to read this entire topic. Occasionally, I do go back to look at the old photos to remember what things looked like 3+ years ago. The pieces of the puzzle are coming together.

Ray - Short answer is: a good while.

In order to convert from the toggle switches located around the layout, I need to do two things (and they're both pretty big). First, I have to get the CMRI up and running. The big task there is getting the serial line connected to all 3 nodes/panels. Second, in order to test the system, I need software. This is where JMRI comes in. I have to "describe" the layout to the computer by drawing a schematic, using  JMRI symbols, then assign the devices, turnouts, signals and detection, to the symbols. Tammy has been bugging me for a new TV in the family room, but I have been resisting. Then it occurred to me that when I finally cave in, I get the old one for my dispatching panel. I can live with that. I told her Christmas when they're cheapest.

great work 

As usual, great progress on your layout Elliot. I sure like to read your updates. And I like the way you are doing your road crossings... may have to copy that.

Are you going to have an open house/layout tour soon?

John - As they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. By all means, go for it. They are a little labor intensive, and almost demand a table saw for all the ripping. I also use a chop saw for all the straight cross cuts. The results are crisp and clean. They still need some filler and paint of course.

Last year I signed on as the layout tour coordinator for the local NMRA division. I'm right in the middle of getting our fall tour lined up. I plan to put my layout on the spring tour (makes my job easier, one less layout to find). That will be in April or May.

The layout is always available for viewing. You just have to let me know when you are coming to town.

P.S. Don't forget, the National Narrow Gauge Convention will be in the Twin Cities in 2018. That's 25 months from now. I expect to be on that tour.

My amazement over what you have done is still crazy high. Thanks again for taking time out to post pictures and a monthly construction synopsis. 

I didn't pour in a ton of hours this month, but that didn't stop the progress. Joe was here twice and Matt once.

I started with the fascia above the bookshelves.

Because I might need access in the future, I decided to use Velcro to hold the segments in place. I put some contact cement on the Masonite and the wood so the Velcro sticks better.

It works great and stays in place.

Once past the bookshelves, there is access from below, so I returned to screwing the fascia to the benchwork.

Here we see the end result of that, and this entire section is complete.

Joe and I worked on the Roseville industrial loop, by first adding a piece of plywood to the hill.

The level section on the right will the oil loading facility.

Turnouts are marked in their final positions.

We started the loop to the right...

and continued all the way around...

until it was closed.

More fascia, this piece was needed so Matt could install a switch throw near the left end.

I added more fascia to the end of the first peninsula...

and started down the north side of aisle 1, into Cottage Grove. The next section will have two manual throws for 3M's Chemolite plant.

Matt got this switch done...

but spent most of his time working on this crossover.

Finally, I began working on the last major section of backdrop, the south wall. Once again, Velcro to the rescue, in case I ever need to get to that track.

You can just make out the three pieces that make up this section. All can be removed, but it's the middle one that is most important.

I hope to complete a bunch of projects next month. Many of the ones I worked on are almost done.

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

I didn't pour in a ton of hours this month, but that didn't stop the progress. Joe was here twice and Matt once.

I started with the fascia above the bookshelves.

Because I might need access in the future, I decided to use Velcro to hold the segments in place. I put some contact cement on the Masonite and the wood so the Velcro sticks better.

It works great and stays in place.

SNIP 

 

Finally, I began working on the last major section of backdrop, the south wall. Once again, Velcro to the rescue, in case I ever need to get to that track.

You can just make out the three pieces that make up this section. All can be removed, but it's the middle one that is most important.

I hope to complete a bunch of projects next month. Many of the ones I worked on are almost done.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who loves velcro.  This stuff is great for backdrop securement but it's also great for securing wire bundles (if you can get it cheap).    Thanks for the pointer on the contact cement btw. I'll be using that trick in a few weeks. 

Thanks again for the updates each month, I look forward to them each month.

Great update even if its in the dead of a hot summer. Elliot your railroad is designed for operations. What types of industries will you have and will you keep your theme and time period to the modern era or will you run steam engines etc?

Thanks guys!

MRB - Just like duct tape, Velcro has 1001 uses. Now 1002. For 30 years now, I've been putting a quick coat of contact cement on every porous surface so that the adhesive back will stick better. Glad you liked that tip.

Redball - Even though my son is in town and staying with me, I warned him in advance that I would need some time to do the monthly update. He didn't have a problem with that and played some video games while I was busy. That's the level of dedication I have to this project and to those of you who follow this topic.

George - Sorry about the steam, that will be limited to just a couple engines for pulling passenger excursions from time to time. I'm a diesel baby, so they will be doing the day to day operations. Some key events that set the time frame are: no roof walks on boxcars, most trains no cabooses, Amtrak.

Ah Industries!

• 8 grain handling facilities (mills and elevators)
• 2 oil facilities ( pipeline terminal and refinery)
• 2 lumber yards
• 2 metals facilities (scrap yard and recycling processor)
• a rail offloading and transfer facility for metals
• a 3M facility dealing with a range of chemicals
• a Ford plant receiving parts and shipping small pickup trucks
• an auto offloading terminal
• a cement plant
• a potato chip plant.
• A shoe factory
• a pottery manufacturer
• an office products manufacturer
• a cold storage facility
• 3 or 4 others as yet to be determined (tracks in place)

There will also be 3 intermodal facilities and a good deal of interchange service to keep operators busy. Just to confuse the issue a little more, there will be through train operations as well.

enjoyed this months update.all those industries am curious you said that a turntable in helix at a latter date would that be the ex sooline/milwaukee road area?

StPaul posted:

enjoyed this months update.all those industries am curious you said that a turntable in helix at a latter date would that be the ex sooline/milwaukee road area?

Nah Ray, it will be purely fictitious. If anything, it could be the Jackson Street roundhouse because one side is next to the Frogtown section, but the access will be from the north end of Northtown.

I'm doing it for a couple reasons. First, the top of the big helix is a rather large waste of real estate, and a turntable and roundhouse lend themselves nicely to fill it. Second, I already have a Bowser turntable and a Korber roundhouse leftover from the mall, why not use them? It will be a nice place to display and power down engines and other MOW pieces not in use.

It won't be nearly as pretty as Laidoffsick's, but it will get the job done.

Finally getting around to reading Eliiot's update. As I have said, my favorite posts for a long time and enjoy reading the updates. I still cannot imaging diving into this project. I don't know if I'll ever make a visit to MN but if so I would definitely request a visit!

Hi Elliot

     Always an inspiring read. I am curious as to what your plans are for the shoe factory. That is the industry I am in. Thanks again

Ray Marion

Before I get started on this month's activities, I want to apologize to Roman and Ray for not catching their posts sooner. There's a good chance that I was dealing with my job as NMRA division layout tour coordinator, getting things finalized for next Saturday's tour, and I missed them.

Roman - There are times when I wonder why I decided to do this too. It has been a lot of work, but it has also been a lot of fun, and the big payoff of an operating railroad is coming into clear focus. Remember, the longer you wait to make the trip, the more complete it will be.

Ray - There's a very good chance that I will just use some old Korber kits that I have leftover from enterTRAINment to represent Red Wing Shoes. The whole city of Red Wing is a mix of real and freelance to be fun but somewhat representative.

On to new business...

Once again September was not a super busy month on the layout. A variety of non train distractions kept me out of the basement a bunch. But, as always there is progress to report.

Joe was over twice, and Matt once. Also, my wife lent her talents to the cause.

Let's start with what I have named the Loco Log. How do you keep track of the maintenance records of more than 60 engines? I told my wife what I needed and helped her design the page format, then took the pictures of the engines.

This is what we came up with.

Matt knocked out another ten manual throws.

After these 4, there are just 14 left. the goal is to have this project done by the end of the year.

Here he is laying in the hidden yard working on them.

it almost looked like the layout ate him.

While he was working on the throws, I installed the next two sections of the south wall backdrop. There's just a small piece left in the corner.

and a chunk to connect behind the grain elevator going around the helix to Red Wing. That could be a while, because the hidden yard control panel needs to be moved.

Both of Joe's visits were mostly spent working on Roseville. Here we see how a number of the track feeders had to be installed. There was no room for the wires to go straight down because of the lack of clearance below, so he cut a trench in the fiberboard and used a little hot glue to secure them, until they were in far enough to not be in the way.

He finished laying the industrial tracks...

as well as the last pieces of fiberboard.

As part of gathering engine pics for  the loco log project, and also a test project for Dale Manquen, I wanted to run every train out of the hidden yard and around the mainline.

Things were going pretty well too, until disaster struck!!! The last car of this intermodal train derailed and got caught on the switch (upper left). I had hoped to drag it safely around to where I could reach it, but instead, to my horror, it stringlined and began to tip. It all happened in slow motion, as most of the train rained down...

six feet to the concrete below.

This one only fell two feet down to Red Wing.

A few lucky pieces were caught by the helix.

In the end, this was the extent of the damage, a few broken ladders, and the truck screws sheered off one K-line die cast car. Total monetary damages under $100 (ego bruised). It could have been worse. Now you see why I don't have any expensive equipment on the layout yet.

On Joe's second visit, he installed this Atlas turntable, which had been sitting around for about a year and a half. the base was warped causing the gears to jam. Once he secured it it worked much smoother. Still has a couple small rough spots. We'll work on that.

All the industrial spurs are finished, thanks to Joe.

I installed all the ground throws on the switches.

Joe connected all the wires. We just have one switch left to get control of, and that will need Matt's attention.

We are so close to having all the track completed!!! I've been saying it for the last two years, but 2016 is really it. These are the only pieces missing, and they are all rather small.

In this photo, there is a switch on the far left, by the husky stack. That connects to the crossing on the right.

There will be a turntable in the helix, so I'll need some track there.

Then there's the chunk needed to connect this turntable. A 10 minute project.

And finally a last minute decision to add a couple industrial tracks to serve a power plant. It has been in the back of my mind for a long time, but now it's going to happen.

I am well positioned to be done with a lot of projects in 2016. Three months to go! Everything is moving forward toward an open house in April 2017 and the National Narrow Gauge Convention Labor day weekend 2018.

Elliot

Amazing progress. Wish I was closer. C

Curious as to what manual ground throws you are using that seem to installed from underneath the track. The caboose industries manual throws are placed right on the switch?

Steve

Elliot you made good progress last month. It has been really interesting following you each month.

Raining trains... That had to be heart stopping. Glad that the damage was no worse.

Good luck with Saturday's tour. That should be a good time.

Any chance of getting a copy of the Loco Log? It looks like an ideal project that my wife would enjoy doing. Our e-mail address is oldhokie70@charter.net.

Thanks,

Bill

good morning elliot always a treat to see you post on your monthly progress. to bad about the derailment maybe some plexiglass strips to aid in keeping things upright? I went back to page 1 and came forward to todays post good golly molly you have come a long way but as you say the payoff is getting really close to running trains on all of the layout.

have you gained any on the tmcc signal issue with your engines? have you tried the legacy unit am curious is all as I know you really don't need it in place.

I think I finally have figured out those manual throws and how they work using those rc cables, can the 2' cable  be lengthened ?

side note crazy cameras at union depot one day the signal bridge near division street wye is showing another day its gone! 

any gazebo time this year well if I remember correctly you like it cold so maybe the fall/winter time is perfect for you out there!

Elliot,

An Amazing under taking. Why are you putting a turntable inside your Helix?

Good morning gang. As always, thanks for your support and questions. Let me give you some answers.

Steve - The ones that Matt is currently working on are done with radio control push rods. They work on the same principle as a choke cable.

Here we see the assembly of the knob end of  the system, with it screwed into the yellow rod.

They vary in length from switch to switch as needed. They are made by Sullivan, and come in 3 and 4 foot lengths.

Here's a shot of the finished throw. The clevis, that brass gizmo, is clipped onto the loop of the lower arm of a home made bell crank. The crank wire goes up through benchwork in a brass sleeve. The top arm of the crank goes to the hole in the throw bar of the switch. Push and pull the knob, throw the switch. Simple motion transfer. I use these in places where a Caboose ground throw would be too hard to reach.

Bill - My wife just used Excel to create the template. I'll ask her again if we can just email copies, some of the other guys were interested too. I'm not sure if there was a technical issue about sending it or what. Your request is noted.

Ray - I am going to put in a safety rail, but it will just be a strip of Masonite, not plexiglass. It won't go on the top track because there is no side clearance. Trains on the top level would rub against it. Instead it will go on the level just below the top, and attach to the vertical supports where the letters are. That would have caught all the cars, limiting the fall to a comfortable 6 inches instead of the disastrous plunge of 6 feet.

TMCC signal issues are improving with the help of Dale Manquen. In my testing, I discovered that part of my problem is communication from the remote to the base. It seems that as I have closed the space in with backdrops and benchwork, the commands aren't all getting through. The solution to this is just to add an external antenna to the base. That will restore line of sight to the remotes.

That's very possible about the signal bridge, but I think that one has been out of service for a while now and the new signals are up and working.

Gazebo time has been limited, mainly because of wasps in the back yard. My wife is deathly afraid, but not allergic mind you. I'm the one who's actually been stung. Matt was over with his dog last week and we sat out there for a while.

George - The turntable will go on the yet to be built platform which will fill the empty space in the middle. The height of the platform will be just under 6 feet off the floor, and connect to the crossing on the left. I already have a Bowser turntable and a Korber roundhouse for this project.

.

Just .... wow. All I can say.

Thanks for your monthly update. Isn't it good to feel you have all the track layed, and you can work on getting any of the bugs worked out and have fun running the lay-out.

You're welcome  Redball. It's really a bittersweet feeling getting all the track done. It is one of my favorite parts of the hobby. On the other hand, this has been a huge project, and it will feel good to have it done.

Just for good measure, and a last hurrah, I'm adding a couple tracks to serve a power plant. This will bring the switch count up to 305.

Just a little tease for the October update.

645, thanks for taking the time to read the whole topic. Glad you enjoyed it and found some of it potentially useful. That's part of what makes doing this so worthwhile.

As for preventing future wrecks, I already have the strip of Masonite cut and just need to get down on my belly and crawl back in there. Trust me when I say, I do have a rather substantial belly. The big trick is to make sure that I have all the tools and materials within reach, so I can complete the two projects, and solve the problem. First, fix the track to prevent future derailments. Second, put up the Masonite "fence". It is probably a total of 20 minutes for both, once I get in there.

I always look forward to these regular updates, but now you're just showing off.   Who else can claim two turntables on their layout?  What could be better?  Maybe, two turntables and a microphone?  Where it's at, Elliot.....where it's at! 

Bruce

Wow!!! So with the track almost done does that mean we should be expecting videos of trains running as our Christmas gift this year??!!! . 

 Elliot I heard you say, "305 switches"! Wow! This layout is eating up your time and money. However I'm sure it's a labor of love, and it's sure interesting  to read.

Nope, those 305 switches are eating up my time.

Hats off to you Matt I saw the pictures!

" All the time no money, all the money no time".

I now live about 5 miles from his house and last week the puppy and I came over and wouldn't you know it, he doesn't hate her so, (she is pretty awesome) so maybe there will be weekday evening work sessions