My dream/nightmare layout... July Update 7/31/19 Big Boy month!

Elliot, yes, that is what I had been thinking.  I am currently putting in the 3R ties along with roadbed as I go.  For the painting, I had not decided whether or not to go that route with 100% certainty.  Now, with the comment of yours and use of a Badger, it has helped a lot.  I have two air brushes and before I do any ballasting, I can put them to use.  Have thought of using a dark paint (grey or black) for the main lines, brown for the less used sidings and classification yards.  I have ran a supply pipe from the garage below, up to the train room, for use of my air compressor when needed for the layout work.  The most difficult part will be dragging the supply hose around the room and keeping free from hanging up, will need to be over 50ft long.  Above all, thanks much for your input and progress reports on your build.  If we can ever get away, a road trip to Minn/Wisc could be in the works.  have not been "up North" since 2009, plus a visit to train friends in the Antioch, Illinois area. 

Jesse    TCA  12-68275

BANDOB posted:

Well, I found out some things yesterday that do make private car travel from the East to MN more problematic today, to a degree that I think Elliot is right when he suggests using regular Amtrak, assuming it continues to exist. Jon is right that an overnight in Chicago is required. Amtrak will not make a connection the same day between trains with private cars.

Even in the current political climate, I don't really see Amtrak being in any real danger of de-funding. They have bigger fish to fry.

I think it would be pretty neat for everyone to pick a day, and board the train as it goes along. Everyone only pays for the miles they need, and you have social time along the way as more members get on. Those living closer to Chicago probably wouldn't even need a compartment, just go coach. I would recommend an overnight in Chicago on the westbound trip so everyone could unwind, get cleaned up, and a good night's sleep, and board the Builder the following day for the 8 hour trip, arriving St Paul just before10 PM. Some people from different parts of the country may even join the group in Chicago.

Chew on that for a bit, and see what everyone thinks.

texastrain posted:

Elliot, yes, that is what I had been thinking.  I am currently putting in the 3R ties along with roadbed as I go.  For the painting, I had not decided whether or not to go that route with 100% certainty.  Now, with the comment of yours and use of a Badger, it has helped a lot.  I have two air brushes and before I do any ballasting, I can put them to use.  Have thought of using a dark paint (grey or black) for the main lines, brown for the less used sidings and classification yards.  I have ran a supply pipe from the garage below, up to the train room, for use of my air compressor when needed for the layout work.  The most difficult part will be dragging the supply hose around the room and keeping free from hanging up, will need to be over 50ft long.  Above all, thanks much for your input and progress reports on your build.  If we can ever get away, a road trip to Minn/Wisc could be in the works.  have not been "up North" since 2009, plus a visit to train friends in the Antioch, Illinois area. 

Jesse    TCA  12-68275

Because my layout is so big, and I didn't want to wrestle with a bunch of heavy hose, I installed an air distribution system on the layout, and just run one heavy hose over to feed it. For the air brush, I took an old Badger vinyl hose that had a hole in it anyway, and cut it in half. I then inserted some brass tubing into the open ends to give it some rigidity. Then I bought some clear vinyl hose of a diameter that that would snugly fit over the blue hose. Now I have a lightweight 30' hose that will reach anywhere in the room.

If you like hookers and drugs that motel 6 is the place to stay. Spend a bit more money and stay down the road a bit

Matt Makens posted:

If you like hookers and drugs that motel 6 is the place to stay. Spend a bit more money and stay down the road a bit

There is something to be said for the old adage "you get what you pay for".

I like to recommend the Hampton Inn in Hudson, WI. About twice the price, but new and nice.

Matt Makens posted:

If you like hookers and drugs that motel 6 is the place to stay. Spend a bit more money and stay down the road a bit

You took the words right out of my mouth!  This the very reason I stay at more upscale places when I go to York.  I'd rather spend $30-40 more for the night and be in a nice room that risk Motel 6.

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Matt Makens posted:

If you like hookers and drugs that motel 6 is the place to stay. Spend a bit more money and stay down the road a bit

There is something to be said for the old adage "you get what you pay for".

I like to recommend the Hampton Inn in Hudson, WI. About twice the price, but new and nice.

Sounds like a great choice.  My wife and I travel very little; much less than we would like.  So by advising those accommodations, you are singing her song, Elliot!  Mine too; this 60 something back likes comfort as opposed to my tenting days!

I see GRJohn has the same opinion! 

Mark Boyce posted:

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Matt Makens posted:

If you like hookers and drugs that motel 6 is the place to stay. Spend a bit more money and stay down the road a bit

There is something to be said for the old adage "you get what you pay for".

I like to recommend the Hampton Inn in Hudson, WI. About twice the price, but new and nice.

Sounds like a great choice.  My wife and I travel very little; much less than we would like.  So by advising those accommodations, you are singing her song, Elliot!  Mine too; this 60 something back likes comfort as opposed to my tenting days!

I see GRJohn has the same opinion! 

You've got that comfort thing right Mark. My wife and I have stayed at Hamptons all over the country for a couple reasons. Since we don't fly, we use a Hilton rewards card. I buy all my trains with it, and my season hockey tickets as well as a ton of everyday things, like gas, food, and dining out. We rack up hotel points, then when we take a trip, we could end up with 10 or more nights free stay.

Of all the Hilton brand properties, and we've tried them all, the Hamptons are my favorite, especially the newer properties. The reason I suggest Hudson is that it's close to the house.

from past experience when browsing the Amtrak website they used to have motel/hotel partners as well and car rentals for a cheaper rate cant hurt to look.

Elliot's home last time we were there in 2013 was by itself pretty much but is easy to find a cellphone and google maps app will lead you right to his front door.

not sure where all are coming from but if from the far west do yourself a favor book a roomette meals are included you might ask if a group rate is available also cant hurt to ask and might save a few $$

also the James J Hill Viaduct in Minneapolis is worth the visit and you can walk its entire length as well as seeing the existing flour mills.

and lastly Elliot's layout while online pictures show its size the reality of seeing it in person really allows one to relate to its total size both helix's he has are a work of art.

I hope you all can get this setup sounds like a nice trip in the making.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Matt Makens posted:

If you like hookers and drugs that motel 6 is the place to stay. Spend a bit more money and stay down the road a bit

You took the words right out of my mouth!  This the very reason I stay at more upscale places when I go to York.  I'd rather spend $30-40 more for the night and be in a nice room that risk Motel 6.

Yah, me too. Paying more for rooms that do not appear to be able to glow bright blue (chemiluminescence) when examined with luminal is an attractive consideration. I'd say.

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Matt Makens posted:

If you like hookers and drugs that motel 6 is the place to stay. Spend a bit more money and stay down the road a bit

There is something to be said for the old adage "you get what you pay for".

I like to recommend the Hampton Inn in Hudson, WI. About twice the price, but new and nice.

That is a very nice place we stayed at the Hamton when we visited Elliot eh

I just like nicer accommodations and a higher class of people. Getting mugged in the parking lot will negate your savings. I like soft beds, clean sheets and good towels

Moonson posted:

Matt Makens posted:

If you like hookers and drugs that motel 6 is the place to stay. Spend a bit more money and stay down the road a bit

Yah, me too. Paying more for rooms that do not appear to be able to glow bright blue (chemiluminescence) when examined with luminal is an attractive consideration. I'd say.

Not interested staying at a place that offers hourly rates or named 'Slippitt Inn.'

Mill City posted:

Not interested staying at a place that offers hourly rates or are named 'Slippitt Inn.'

That would be good on a layout. Does anyone make a model of that?

Tom Tee posted:

Kinda wondering if our post war bodies could better handle a couple hour flight instead of enduring a train seat for a day or two.  The dates on my drivers license would favor a short flight.  Plus planes have a H.V.A.C.  filtering system. Juss sayin'

Tom, transportation mode of your choice, but this is a train forum.You can even ride your bicycle if you want.

Elliot,  Fantastic layout!!!!!  I am in awe of your accomplishment.  I have the same space but am far behind your rate of progress.  Excellent!

Agreed, fun is always about trains!

However IMO, for travel it's always about seating/time/cost/purpose irrespective of mode. With the ruling factor of bones/joints.

My comment was not  wheels vs wings but rather sitting for a long period of time when other options are available.  I did a lot of cross country travel/hauling.  The most expensive (as in very!)  was by rail, the most time consuming was usually by rail with bus second and auto rounding up travel when calculating travel in days. 

The quickest, cheapest and most efficient. was by air.

Northeast DC-PHL-NYC corridor I frequently go by rail.

But to show you where my heart is; I fly from PHL to San Diego, rent a car to get to Balboa then spend two full days at the train museum hovering over an acre of model railroading.  Priceless.  tt

I would like to know when the group out east is planning to come as I would like to drive up and be a part of the gathering.   It would be wonderful to meet and interact personally with other OGR forum members.   Hope that it takes place as you will all be amazed by what Elliot has accomplished.

Dave 

I agree it would be nice to meet all of you who I haven't met before.  I only have met Western Pennsylvanians like myself 

Just when I thought options by train were dead in the water, I get some new information. One car owner tells me he has had no trouble with having his car occupied in Chicago, provided the people either stay only on the car, or when off are only walking to the yard exit on proper crosswalks.

Here is what he proposed:

I could operate the trip for you in September or October of 2017, as I have no trip commitments at that time.    I could also do the trip in 2018, but I would favor doing it sooner rather than later, if agreeable.

My initial suggestions are:

NYP to CHI on train 49 (alternative is NYP to WAS on early morning train, followed by WAS to CHI on train 29)

One night parked at CHI

Train 7 from CHI to MSP.

3 nights and 2 full days parked at MSP (alternative is 4 nights and 3 full days parked at MSP) Midway Station.

Train 8 from MSP to CHI.

One night parked at CHI.

Train 50 CHI - WAS - NYP (if The Cardinal is running that day).  Alternative is either train 48 CHI to NYP, or train 30 CHI to WAS and maybe train 90 from WAS to NYP.

Ten beds would be available for passengers, as I usually reserve bedroom D for my exclusive use.  I would be a full fare passenger supporting the trip.

Probably serve at least 4 meals westward, and 4 meals eastwards.  Self-serve continental breakfast would be available other days.  Snacks and beverages available.

Cost: about $2,000 per person. Slightly more if we have to hire a chef.

OGR members from the Midwest could join in Chicago and ride only the Chicago-MSP part of the trip. Of course that fare would be significantly less. The car seats 24 for day travel, so another 12-14 people could travel on the car CHI-MSP having gotten to Chicago on their own.

Spending a day in Chicago is actually fun. There are lots of museums, other trains to ride on METRA, etc. 

I'm one passenger. We would need 9 others to take the entire trip.

Yes, $2,000 is a lot of money. So is the cost of a Vision Line Big Boy and a train of cars for it. From what I see on the forum, there is no shortage of people who have this money to spend on trains. Difference here is instead of getting a "thing" you are getting an experience.

He needs 45 days notice of the trip to begin the approval process.

I will take this further if 9 people send me an email saying they are in if we can make it go. I'd favor either early October or in 2018. Elliot suggested 2018 at the time of that National Narrow Gauge Convention Labor Day weekend.

Each bedroom has bunk beds and a private toilet annex with commode and sink. The shower on the car is one of the largest I've seen on a private car.  

If you would not be in for the whole trip, but would go CHI-MSP, send me that email too.  

My email is in my profile.  Let's see what happens.

Bill,

Thank you for all this research!  Now we know.

Bill, Sounds like a great trip. If one considers the cost of 8, possibly 9 nights lodging, 8 meals, continental breakfast, snacks and beverage service, $2000. isn't outrages, to say nothing about the fun. In fact, maybe I'll fly to NY and take the train back. Just need a chef in one of the nine remaining passengers....or should I say 8. What is the car would this be?

Jon, it is the Mount Vernon. Same one we rode in 2014.

That's a beautiful car, Bill. I wasn't sure you were able to secure it again. Another bonus for being parked a Midway, it's a 2 minute walk to the new location of the Twin City Model Train Museum. 

Tom Tee posted:

Elliot,  Fantastic layout!!!!!  I am in awe of your accomplishment.  I have the same space but am far behind your rate of progress.  Excellent!

Agreed, fun is always about trains!

However IMO, for travel it's always about seating/time/cost/purpose irrespective of mode. With the ruling factor of bones/joints.

My comment was not  wheels vs wings but rather sitting for a long period of time when other options are available.  I did a lot of cross country travel/hauling.  The most expensive (as in very!)  was by rail, the most time consuming was usually by rail with bus second and auto rounding up travel when calculating travel in days. 

The quickest, cheapest and most efficient. was by air.

Northeast DC-PHL-NYC corridor I frequently go by rail.

But to show you where my heart is; I fly from PHL to San Diego, rent a car to get to Balboa then spend two full days at the train museum hovering over an acre of model railroading.  Priceless.  tt

Thank you Tom! Sorry it took so long to reply, very busy the last couple days. I've seen quite a few pictures of your layout over the last few years. Your track and benchwork are immaculate. We're talking A+. I wouldn't give my stuff a grade higher than B. Of course it makes a big difference being in 3 rail vs your 2 rail. I get away with a lot more "slop" than you do because of my flanges and couplers. Those factors allow me to move a little faster in construction.

As for how to travel, I agree flying is much faster, and in the long run cheaper as a result. You cut out extra meals and hotel nights. On the other hand, it can be hard to justify flying out to see a layout, then turn right around for home.

It really depends on a person's goal. Some people just want to get there and be done, while others enjoy the journey. Personally, I like to drive, plan multiple train activities along the way, and go where trains and planes don't always go. I set the schedule, and it's a lot of fun. I don't travel in groups.

Dave, of course I'll let you know. Keep your eye on this space as the conversation continues. At this moment, we have nothing but the beginnings of talk.

Mark, I think that's a big part of the fun of the forum. I've met a number of members over the last five years. Some I've traveled to see their layouts, and others have visited me. I'd probably have met a lot more if I lived as far east as you do.

Thanks for taking this project on Bill. That sounds like a nice trip, too bad I won't be taking it myself. I like that time of year, perhaps cooler temps, and pretty leaves along the way.

Jon, how old is that picture of the museum? I was there last month, and it looked very different. They are always working to make it better.

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Jon, how old is that picture of the museum? I was there last month, and it looked very different. They are always working to make it better.

It's not mine, so I have no idea how old it is. Tons of images at Bandana, but very few of their new location. I suspect that it was taken soon after they reopened to the public. It's been some time since my last visit. The 2-rail layout was still in sections and the Dunham layout in the beginning stages of rehab. If memory serves, the only thing running that day was some of Matt's crap on the Granite City modular layout. I know they have big plans and look forward in seeing the progress.

...

Jon, I didn't take any when I was there at the beginning of April, but it is really coming together nicely. The Dunham layout has been remodeled, and the big layout is also going through a partial rework to clean things up and make them run better.

I have been lurking on this thread for some time. Elliot your layout is coming along phenomenally. It's hard to express in words just how awesome it is and how impressive it is that you have gotten so much done. 

The idea of this train trip is something I have wanted to do all my life and it would be even better with a bunch of train fans on board at the same time, I would easily pay the $2K but unfortunately my problem is getting the time off from work. I already have several vacations planned this year including the TCA Convention. If you guys do go I am sure it will be a blast! 

HUDSON J1E:  It may be in 2018, keep that in mind. Lots of people do have this year all planned out, as you do. Besides, 2018 gives people time to save.

Maybe I should ask people who would commit to 2018, Labor Day, to also attend the National Narrow Gauge Convention, Twin Cities Model RR Museum, etc., to send me an email.

Thanks Phil, it has really moved along in the last four years. That was when I asked for and got help. I still put in about 80% of the total hours. Those guys and all of the people following my progress have really kept me motivated.

Bill, it just occurred to me that we may have a problem if we schedule the trip for the convention weekend. That being that I can't be in two places at once. I had hoped to do a tour similar to what we drove that day, but if the convention is on, I'll be tied to the layout. let's mull this over.

Well, May did not turn out exactly like I had hoped. Coming off that fantastic layout tour / open house at the end of April. The whole first week of the month was spent unwinding and getting ready to go to my daughter's graduation in Brookings, SD.

The only time I even went downstairs that week, was when I got phone call from a guy who had come out on the tour. He came over and we spent 3 hours talking about operations and how the layout should be run.  Even though Gary is an HO guy, the layout seems to have left a good impression on him.

Gary and I have actually been acquainted with one another for a very long time, though my memories of him are much sharper than his of me, at least until now. When I was in my early teens, I attended a train show, and Gary had a timesaver layout. I was hooked on that thing. It changed my world and how I thought about trains. So deep down, he was a critical influence in my creating this.

After graduation, the rest of the month was spent picking and poking at a variety of small projects.

This is my rolling stock database. As I add cars to the layout, I record them here, then print the additions and give that list to my wife who hand writes out the car cards.

These are the card boxes. They come from Micro Mark, as does the rest of the car card system. It is a nice basic starting point. The card boxes are varnished wood, but I like to paint them black.

Here's the box at Pig's Eye.

An overview of the yard.

My wife found these really neat paper clips with numbers on them, on Amazon.

This is Northtown (hump yard). The numbered clips tell which track the cars are on.

Here we have the Minnesota Commercial yard and all of its tracks full of cars.

I had some of my LionScale boxcars show up from Charlie Ro. The BNSF one were OK, but the NS had 3 broken trucks out of 3 cars. The problem is that the very fine rim on the bolster is sheering off during shipping. You can see how the material has just popped out around the hole.

And its remains are still under the screw head. The simple solution is to ship these with the trucks inside, and let the customer screw them on. Though a redesigned bolster with a thicker flange would be even better.

The LionScale cars look good. The first four in this shot are them.

I unpacked and programmed new F 40 PH's.

And this Atlas Dash 40-B.

I bought myself a drafting arm, in order to finish drawing my track plans.

Finally, my wife and I restarted the electronics project for the signals.

Sorry if it's not up to my usual level of excitement this month. My helpers haven't been around, I haven't been feeling the best, and my tools are still packed away from the open. Let's see if I can pull it back together in June.

Elliot, 

Don't apologize for having a good month. First of all, Congratulations on your daughter's graduation. That certainly trumps work on the layout. It is part of building a layout that sometimes progress seems slow and then everything seems to happen fast. You got a lot accomplished and progress continues. 

Elliot, it's always fun to read about and see your progress.  I have one important suggestion on car card boxes.  While the 3 box set is fine for areas of industrial switching (set out, hold and pick up boxes), your yard operators really will need a separate box for each track in the yard.  Multiple clipped card packs in a single box will be too cumbersome in an operating session.  Imagine classifying a car into Track 3.  Now find the clipped pack for Track 3, unclip the pack, add the card, re-clip the pack and return it to the box.  Much faster is to slip the card into the front of the Track 3 box.

You have a great layout that is getting really close to the FUN part!

Bob

Congrats on your daughter's graduation, that's enough accomplishment for one month.

Eliot Slow month, Hardly!!   Your daughter graduation is a big deal and I know your very proud of her and naturally a fathers bragging rights apply  . As for the layout. Inventory control although tedious and slow work getting it establish is a necessary evil and just as important. Now that your starting the electrical stuff again, well your going to make my eyes and head hurt again . Look forward to the next update.!!!!! 

Congrats Elliott on your daughters graduation. I always amazed with your gigantic layout and the work you put into it.

Thanks guys! Graduation was a pretty big deal. Now both of my kids have degrees, next step is real jobs. There was another milestone that passed quietly back in January which was no more tuition to pay.

Unfortunately, her mother and I are not really on speaking terms, so we split our time with my daughter. That left me and my wife with some down time, so I spent part of it down by the rails. Brookings is served by a short line, the Rapid City, Pierre & Eastern (which I had never heard of prior to visiting).

It was Saturday afternoon, with zero activity, and I was able to wander freely around the operations facility.

If you look closely, this is a GP-38-3

I found this rather interesting, and a detail that could be easily modeled. Roofing felt has been placed over the ties where the locomotive is usually parked in order to catch oil drips and prevent ground contamination. Neat idea.

Grain country!

I love these old elevators with all their additions.

Pat - Historically May has always been a slow month for the layout. In previous years my wife and I have taken long trips in May, so nothing got done. I now have 15 months before the convention. It's crunch time for real.

Bob - It's great to have your input on this because it comes from experience. I was actually thinking about that very issue. It is easy enough to get additional boxes. I agree, this thing is getting very close to being ready for a "guinea pig" session, where I bring in 5 or 6 guys and try to run some trains. There will be a lot of bugs, but we have to start to get to that end goal. Hosting an operating session was on my list of things to do in 2017, and it still is.

John - By that standard, I'm way ahead of the game, because I did get something done on the layout.

Doug - The data entry is fairly quick and easy, especially when dealing with six packs of cars, because most of the info is just copied down and the car number and product number are the only things that change. What really takes time is the physical unpacking of the cars. Here's the process for a 12 car coal hopper set: open the outer shipper, remove and open the inner shipper, remove and open the six pack, open the individual car box, pull out the foam or plastic insert, remove the car from the plastic bag, repeat for the second six pack finally reverse the process and store the boxes.

Congratulations on your daughter's graduation! That's a great accomplishment. Everything else is still looking like it's coming along just fine and still looking better every month. My favorite items might be the cards, card boxes and most of all those nifty paper clips your wife found. I like the drafting arm as well. I am no where near any kind of operations here, but I have always liked the Micro-Mark card boxes and their cards to go with them, although I would not know what to do with them. Sometimes I am easily sidetracked. 

Hi Elliot, I know how you feel and how a dream layout can  become a little overwhelming at times.

But couple that with fighting cancer and it all can become very daunting not only physically but mentally as well. Something that originally gave us strength and motivation can become overwhelming if we let it. I know this because I had to deal with the cancer beast not only with myself but my wife's breast cancer and son who had Hoskins Lymphoma. We are all doing well now but I still pray everyday things stay that way and I will add you to my daily list of favors.

But, it sounds as if the cancer is under control and your will is strong and back on track. I'm happy to read that you found some help. Friends are always a great source of wisdom and strength. Also, the  plan of at lest one hour a day on the project is right on. I find one hour always leads to three or four and before I knew it I was running trains.

Oh yea, if it means anything to you buddy I have been working on my dream since 1995.

Matt Makens posted:

If you like hookers and drugs that motel 6 is the place to stay. Spend a bit more money and stay down the road a bit

Does that mean that you enjoyed your stay at the Motel 6?  

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Mill City posted:

Not interested staying at a place that offers hourly rates or are named 'Slippitt Inn.'

That would be good on a layout. Does anyone make a model of that?

I'm imagining one of the Miller Engineering lighted signs with motion.  I think there would be a market.