Odd TIU Problem

The first question would be do you know of anyone else having that same problem with that version of the upgrade and/or with it and that REV TIU?

Sometimes those upgrades have bugs.

I stopped upgrading both of my early REV TIUs, a few years ago,  for fear of what you are experiencing.

Despite all that, I bet Barry B can help out best.

Since it an earlier model tiu why don't you try an older rev  software update to the tiu and the remote then, maybe then it will work!

Alan Mancus

John i also heard there was a bug in 4.30 and that there was a later rev available!

Alan

GRJ, I have 2 Rev G's, both have been through all the software upgrades as they became available, including the very latest, with no issues.

Have you tried different remotes?

That is a strange one, I don't recall anyone posting about it before? I have seen some folks post about still using the old TIU's, who knows how many have tried the 4.3 upgrade though? Some folks seem reluctant to upgrade. Barry, MTH (or a newer TIU) may be your only hope? 

Pretty unlikely it would have upgraded without error, but possibly a corrupt file? Maybe re-downloading the 4.3 upgrade?

I'm sure that Barry or GGG might be able to diagnose the issue better than I, however, I would try to download an earlier version for the TIU/ remote  as mentioned earlier. Perhaps the old TIU just cant process the new version that well. maybe try 4.2 and progress backward from there until it works correctly.

Hi John • When it comes to electronics, if it works, leave it alone. My local LHS, wants me to bring in my TIU & Hand Held DSC for a up grade to 4.30. It is on my bucket list but everything is working just fine. I run a lot of Proto Sound 3.O

     What do you think I should do, Hold Them at 4.2 or roll up to 4.3

Thanks - Gary

I can only speak for me but i believe in the old adage if it ain't broke don't fix it!! another words if it's working fine why upgrade and take a chance to make your TIU and DCS system possibly stop from working!

Sometimes thing's are best left alone if they working satisfactorily !

Alan

Guns,

    I do not know if your original TIU can actually be up graded, with all the different changes, this is definitely one for George or Barry.  Long ago when I mailed my original back, Mike actually replaced it with a newer TIU unit, because from what I understand, something similar was happening to mine, as they tried to repair and upgrade it. 

PCRR/Dave

Dave, as I said above, I have 2 Rev G's that have successfully updated through every version from the earliest V2 to the very latest.  Neither had any problems whatsoever and still don't.  They received the heavier trace repair a few months after I got them.  So ancient TIUs can be upgraded; now whether his particular TIU has a specific problem is another question.  Components do age and alter characteristics from heat.

Gary & Alan, I bet you guys don't still run MSDOS or IBMDOS, or even Windows 3.0.  Why not?  They did the job.  That's the same reason for upgrading.  To maybe get some new feature or eliminate some buglet.   oor maybe just because its there.

John,

Your TIU is most likely broken.

I've found that when Rev. G's go, they can go in strange ways. For example, I have a Rev. G that has had 2 bad channels (weak to nonexistent signal strength) for several years. Otherwise, it was fine. Yesterday, it learned a new trick. Now, it also cannot be found by the Loader Program when doing a sound file transfer.

It's probably time to retire the Rev. G...

Like I said, 

Guns,

   Might be time to either try to fix this one your self or trash it.

PCRR/Dave

I think Barry is probably on target here, it sure seems broken.  FWIW, I have upgraded a number of old Rev. G units with no problems to 4.30, we still use one at our club.  To answer the other question I tried several remotes, and the remote that is with the unit works perfectly with my Rev. L TIU.

I also notice this when I look under the covers, doesn't inspire confidence.

I don't think the darker areas are a good sign. At least they haven't been on things I have had. Looks like they have nice banana jacks though.

You need a new bottle of factory smoke.  Looks like some got out.

I think you're right Marty, and that stuff is so expensive that I usually just buy a new unit.

I wonder if it can be re-purposed for something other than a fancy paper wieght?

Too light to be a boat anchor.

John,

Have you tried banging it hard against the floor (I hear that's good for today's modern electronics)!.

I remember when I was a kid: When watching TV, if it got fuzzy, my dad would bang on the side of the old vacuum tube TV and that would fix it

(back when we had 3 channels and you actually got up to change channels: and 'after' hours, you thought it was cool to look at the test pattern)!

sam

ps: you know you're old when you start reminiscing about past events!

Hi J0hn maybe use it as a dart Board!you can throw old ps2 5 volt boards at it and they can burn up together!

alan

Are you in Limbo now! HEHEEEHHAAHAHA

have a nice night

Just one question though for real, did the TIU work at all before you tried upgrading it in any software version

Maybe where the traces are burnt has caused a resistance drop that's causing incorrect voltages drops, i would try scrapping the burnt areas clean and try one last ditch effort again and see if it will work then!

Just for the heck of it try!

your friend always Alan

John,

I'm pretty sure a direct plug into the wall outlet will reseal those burned spots: make sure you get the AC hot side wire right, and use the fixed voltage input

sam

I honestly can't say.  I got it with the instructions to upgrade it to 4.30.  The upgrade went smooth, and when I connected it to the test track, it started up the locomotive and honked the horn, so I made the silly assumption it was working.  Since the track that it was sitting on was just two pieces of Fastrack on my bench, I didn't actually try the motion commands, but I've never heard of this failure where everything but actual motion makes it through the TIU.  I simply had no reason to suspect all was not well.

I think there'll be a different procedure from now on...

John are these boards in these TIU's multi- layer boards with traces between the layers. I have repaired some pretty burnt up boards that were hit by lightening. and they were microprocessor boards . I'll give it a try if you don't want to!

Alan

YO guys,

This was my TIU.

I've been using it for many moons. 

I decided to try running my TMCC through the TIU and the TIU stopped working after that.  I have one of the MTH cables to connect the two units together.

When power was applied to the TIU, the red LED would blink 16 times.

When using the remote, it said 'engine not on track'.

It's been a few weeks so I don't remember if it also said 'TIU not found'.

.

.

.

I looked up my notes and it said: 'TIU 1 not found'

sam

These are multi-layer boards.  MTH will not attempt to repair this fault.

The thing is, I have one of the original Rev. G boards with the same cooked trace, but it only killed Fixed #1.  This TIU does odd things for all the channels, not to mention the fact that it can't retain it's settings.  I don't think it's just that cooked trace.

I understand what your saying but if there is a resistance where there should not be if could cause the commands not getting threw the address lines and data buffers and cause it to not function or lock up in between commands

Alan

When power was applied to the TIU, the red LED would blink 16 times.

When using the remote, it said 'engine not on track'.

It's been a few weeks so I don't remember if it also said 'TIU not found'.

sam

Is this the same TIU gunrunner  is working with ?   Did a software reload eliminate the 16 blinks?  (not that it matters now)

you probably have the wrong TIU number , it needs to be TIU 1, you can reset the tiu threw the remote and then try it, it should blink 1 time!ok

Alan

Yes the software did eliminate the blinks.

Also, I forgot, a month ago, I 'fixed' the TIU.

See below for the thread info:

Diode replacement:
(I don't claim to be an electronics wiz)
Diagnostics:
1. VAR 1 input was throwing the circuit breaker (CB) on my 180 watt Lionel 'brick'(power supply).
2. insured the input power supply was in phase with other power supplies.
3. removed output wire on VAR 1 and still threw the CB.
4. Tried another input power supply to VAR 1 and still threw the CB.
5. Called MTH tech and he said it was probably the surge suppressor.
The surge suppressor is a diode (part #BB-0000033 at $3.60 each: got two since cheap and min order of 10 bucks).
The VAR 1 diode is the far corner one by the VAR 1 output plugs (each output has a diode).
Replacement:
1. removed the 6 screws on the bottom to release the top of the case (insure power is off).
2. Removed the suspect diode and put my volt meter on R and checked the suspect diode and the needle pegged to the right whereas the new diode stayed to the left.
3. Bent the new diode wires to align with the holes and cut off the excess wire.
4. Used some fine needle nose pliers to hold one wire (and also act as a heat sink) and soldered one side (did the same to the other side).
5. Tested and all is 'good in the world' again.

Note: I put the diode in with the marking on one end of the diode facing left (same as the other good diodes).
Interesting: diodes only allow 'juice' to flow one way but the new diode would not allow voltage (tested via the volt meter on R) to flow either way! The damaged one pegged the needle to the right in both directions.

========

Here's the complete thread that I started:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...01#40849086879667801

This is the one I have, however I didn't get the word that it was confused before the upgrade.  I could find it and upgrade it fine, and it actually now starts up the locomotive, just gets lost when it tries to do any motion command.  The fact that it loses the configuration on a reset is troubling, and probably a killer all by itself.

There was a discussion about the multiple blinks before here, and I believe Barry said that sometimes the software upgrade would reset them.  I can't find the thread now, so I'm not sure exactly was said.  FWIW, after the upgrade, it blinks once on power-up, and of course the remotes can find the TIU no sweat.  However, as soon as I try to do a motion command to a locomotive, the TIU locks up and then no remote can find it.

Thanks for the update.

Sam, the "diode" you replaced is a TVS protection device, basically a couple of Zener diodes back-to-back.  Until you reach the breakdown voltage, they are an open circuit, when you reach the breakdown voltage, they clamp the spike to the rating of the TVS.  A good one should read an open circuit in both directions, and a shorted one is... well a shorted one!

I'll be sending this one back, I don't see anything else I can do to revive it.  I suspect a microprocessor failure do the the problem it has remembering it's configuration.

It has the correct TIU number.

John,

sometimes the software upgrade would reset them.

Your recollection is correct.

Alan,

you probably have the wrong TIU number , it needs to be TIU 1, you can reset the tiu threw the remote and then try it, it should blink 1 time!ok

You cannot correct a TIU that blinks more than 5 times or less than once any way except, possibly, through a software reload, since it can't be accessed via the remote.

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

I think we've beat this dead horse to death!

Time for me to get a new TIU or complete set.

sam

Sam, the remote is fine, other than some of the buttons need a strong push.   It's upgraded to 4.30, so it'll work when you have a TIU that isn't toasted.   It's always handy to have an extra remote anyway.

John,

Yeh, I noticed the buttons are getting a little cranky. 

I bought that when they first made them.

I might as well buy a whole new set.

Sam