Sunset Models. Translation needed.

In order to see if the cab is out of square you would have to take a picture of the engine from the side. The cab number should be horizontal in the camera lens.

The error is not evident from the picures you posted.

Pete

Thank-you Pete, does this picture help? Is it the 3661 number that you are referring to?

Do you still have the model, or is it in the buyer's possession?

If you have it, we need a photo taken at the cab level, directly from the side (not above or below).  It would be good to have the photo include the the surface the model is sitting on (for reference purposes) and part of the boiler.

I sure hope you don't have a buyer that's trying to scam you.

Jay

What Jay says. It should be taken directly from the side. From the last picture there doesn't appear to be anything wrong with it at least not to the degree implied.

Pete

The only thing I see is the LH cab rail is in the lower wrong hole. Is that what the buyer is talking about?

I sent the buyer return postage. I'm going to assess it when it is returned, I'll do what you all suggest and take the photo.

I wish it was evident in the pics I had taken... want to make sure a different train hasn't been put in the box.

Thank-you all so much!

Chuck,

I'm not sure, I quoted what he said in the initial post...

The vertical handrail on the fireman's side doesn't look like it's in the correct hole and/or position.  I'm not an expert on this 2-10-2 model so it may just be me.

Steve

I suspect buyers remorse. from the vague description and how easy it would be to fix......The worker at the factory just inserted it wrong, and when looking from the rear, the railing looks 'bent up'. 

Be careful, the buyer could be scamming you and swapping his messed up loco for yours. This sounds fishy to me

Your model looks ok.  Sunset jigs these things, and cabs etc., are always straight.  Me too - hope you are not getting scammed.

Too late for this transaction, but one thing for you to consider in the future. Take a sharpie marker and make a dot, or mark on a screw head in an inconspicuous place. I'd suggest somewhere on the bottom of the engine. Even if it's black on black, it will show up. It doesn't harm the engine and is easily cleaned off.  Most people, even if they see it won't think twice about it.

Take a close-up picture of your mark; time and date stamp your picture. It will help ensure that what you get back is what you shipped.

A bit more "post transaction" advice: Take a shot of each side, and the front and rear of the model with the camera level with the model. Use a tripod if you have one. If you don't have a tripod, rest the camera on something at the same height as the model. The more of an angle you have with the camera makes it more difficult to pick up problems like which we are discussing. Good Luck!

Simon

The digital images aren't costing you anything but time!

bellymoondrop posted:

Hello all you train lovers out there.

I recently sold an item;

SUNSET MODELS O Scale BRASS SP F SERIES 2-10-2 #3661 F-3 2-RAIL

Then I got a communication saying,

"The locomotive cab is bent out of square with the rest of the locomotive. It appears to be bent up in the rear, and with no damage to the paint, it seems it was assembled this way, with the damage not being caused in transit. This stands out like a sore thumb."

Suzanne,     Looking at the above pic, the buyer is saying the front of the cab roof (more or less above the "3" on the side) is LOWER than the back of the cab roof. You would need to measure up just past the "1" on the side, because the back corner of the cab roof is beveled inward. In other words, the straight edge across the bottom of the cab roof should be parallel with a line drawn across the tops of the numbers. Probably pretty trivial, but some of us modelers are a bit neurotic! These things are hand made and stuff happens on occasion!

Hope this helps!

Simon

I love this community. Thanks for your great suggestions and help.

I haven't refunded any money yet, and I have the option to appeal the return so if I think it is not the same item, no refund will be given. I want to be fair and assess this properly. You've all been tremendously helpful.

Suzanne

Simon Winter, I will do that as soon as it is returned, thank-you!

I also post in my for sale ad that all items are sold “as is” and there are no returns, only a guarantee the item will be non DOA. There are some insanely cheap train guys out there and I never underestimate people’s complete lack of integrity. Their mistake shouldn’t be your fault.

Mike CT posted:

Check the package-ing.  The molded foam box that came with the model.  Rough handling, during shipping, causes the model to move/shift inside the foam container, which can do damage to fragile brass models.  You should be able to note, where the foam, has been distorted by the model shifting, do to miserable handling.  Area where the foam has been distorted would also indicate model damage.   IMO.  Mike CT   Also note that brass, hand assembled models can have production defects. 

Possible but this looks more like buyers remorse. I will be surprised if there is anything wrong with this other than the handrail Chuck pointed out. Hopefully the item sent will be the item returned.

Pete

Suzanne, if you need an expert opinion, contact Gary Schrader. gs-sj1944@comcast.net. He does not provide a phone number until after you email him. 

He improves/fixes mistakes of  brass models  as well as makes prototype models for several brass O scale manufacturers. He is an expert on steam locomotives like SF, UP, SP, NYC, etc. steam engines. 

Don

Matt Makens posted:

I also post in my for sale ad that all items are sold “as is” and there are no returns, only a guarantee the item will be non DOA. There are some insanely cheap train guys out there and I never underestimate people’s complete lack of integrity. Their mistake shouldn’t be your fault.

Sold a guy a K-Line scale (Intermountain) reefer in the original packaging. Claimed it was damaged, ebay let him file a claim without sending it back. About a week later another seller contacted me asking if this individual had claimed a product he purchased arrived damaged. Was clear to see what was happening. Hopefully yours turns out better.

I've had pretty good luck selling a couple of guys claimed damage and wanted a partial refund.  After granting the first request, I decided to simply insist they ship it back for a refund.  I've never gotten any either of the remaining items back, and I'm fairly sure it was just a buyer trying to make a quick buck off me.

I'm not ashamed to say, I'm a pretty good packer, and normally when I ship something, it doesn't get damaged in transit.  I can't say that for stuff I've received, I get all sorts of interesting stuff out of the box.

FWIW, for expensive items, I do put ID on them.  If you look closely at any expensive board or inside the shell of a locomotive, you'll find an engraved mark from items I ship.

Wonder if buyer's listening? 

This sounds like a scam to me.   Never send return shipping.  Have buyer ship and then offer to refund the shipping costs when you resolve the issue.  My guess is he changed his mind and is looking for an excuse to get his money back, or he had a busted up engine that he is trying to pawn off to you.  Hopefully I'm wrong.  Good Luck.

I don't see anything wrong with it from the photos. I also think that this guy could be scamming as well. I know whenever I have purchased anything on eBay, I usually take a bit to read details about everything and go from there. I have contacted sellers but mostly to thank them for having this out for me to buy. I have never had any issues where whatever was for sale wasn't in good condition when it got to me, but I guess because all those I've bought from have done an outstanding job packaging items like they were glass.

I hope you can get this resolved without getting any unwanted headaches.

Suzanne,

I believe that your second picture in which you have the tender facing the wrong way may have led the buyer to think you are a newbie and susceptible to scamming.  

Just a thought.

Best of luck.

Ed

Suzanne, these are the type of photos you need to show if something is out of square.  I did this on the quick but the camera should be at eye level to the model and both should be as close to level as possible.  X Y axis of model and camera should be aligned. If you have a drafting triangle use it as it will be sitting on the same plane as the model and is quite illustrative of any out of aligned surfaces.  Let me also say it is not unusual that brass models have out of aligned surfaces, running boards, cabs, pilots........ looking at the photos I am not sure if these are your photos or the buyers.  I cannot see any out of aligned parts on these photos but they are not ideal for judging.  Another thing to watch out for is buyers having an identical model but with flaws will buy one like theirs and try and pull a swap returning the flawed one they had for yours.  I used to sell on eBay a lot usually keeping 150 ads running continuously and had people buy my item and try and return another.  I started using UV markers and taking photos of my models under black light to have proof of the model I was selling but not using these photos in my ad.  Remember this, there are predatory sellers on eBay but several times more Predatory buyers on the site.   EBay will throw you off their site if you get caught trying to defraud buyers but they very seldom  throw buyers off the site. Good Luck,          j

Matt Makens,

I have a no return policy and I also state the item is sold "as is", but the site I sell on honors returns if the item arrives defective or if the buyer claims it was not accurately represented in the photos. That seems to sway toward the buyer, however, when I called to tell them what had transpired, they said to have the item returned and then inspect it to see if it is the one I sold, and to verify if the defect exists... if not I can open an appeal and in that case the buyer gets no refund and no item. Strange policy! 

Ed Kelly,

I am definitely a newbie. This enterprise is for a family member and I am a fish out of water flopping on the shore. I've had over 100 sales totaling $13,000 in 2 months because there is evidently no passion like that of the train enthusiast! I am stunned at the generosity of the people here, it's been a godsend as I try and understand what I am doing!

It's fascinating to learn about this hobby. Truly.

Could this be the issue? Hard to tell with the angle and lighting. Plus I know nothing about brass steam. 

I really hope it's not a scam.  Also, I would take Jay's advice from your Kadee loc thread and find a local O scaler who can help identify and value your items. Seems like you have a nice collection there!

Bossman284,

eBay pretty much insists that the buyer send the return postage.

I just sold 3 more Sunset Models, I'm thinking I should rephotograph them with all this new invaluable advice!

Pete M,

Well, I don't know! What are you pointing out in the circle? I have an untrained eye for these things. 

Sigh,

Suzanne

John Acton,

Thank you for taking the time to illustrate the kind of photos I should be taking. It is HUGELY appreciated!

I think I will be able to tell if the item returned is not the one I sent. 

Suzanne

Well it looks like maybe there's a gap above the rivet line at the top of the cab back wall and the curve of the roof. But let's wait for one of the brass steam experts to comment!   

Suzanne, glad to hear sales are good. Selling is something I know I wouldn't do myself because I just like my stuff. I'd say though that there are the self evident rules to follow(common sense) and you seem to be doing just that.

I notice in my browsing of items on eBay, that for each seller there is some common things, and some not. Generally people will put either few item details or extremely detailed. Some people don't have a photo of their item which to me would be not something I'd consider.

The photos you have above I would say are on par with what I usually look at. Regardless of how you arrange the items(tender backwards or forward) I wouldn't think would matter as it is pretty obvious which way after looking at it which way it would go together. Going forward for you the best advice is coming from your fellow OGR members, don't hesitate to ask questions when you are wanting advice.

bellymoondrop posted:

John Acton,

Thank you for taking the time to illustrate the kind of photos I should be taking. It is HUGELY appreciated!

I think I will be able to tell if the item returned is not the one I sent. 

Suzanne

Buy yourself a black light marking kit they have them at office supply businesses.  And on eBay.     j

Dave,

I am amazed how well it has gone, truly, this is a family endeavor that I offered to help with, knowing only that I love the sound of trains in the middle of the night. My grandfather lived near the RR tracks here in Reno and I always loved trains. That is the extent of my knowledge, lol. Clearly, as I don't know which way the tender goes...and last week I was looking up the work "tender" in the dictionary. Agreed, OGR forum members are golden. 

Suzanne

Will do, John! 

Ron464nyc posted:

Wonder if buyer's listening? 

I've wondered that myself! 

Don Sweet posted:

Suzanne, if you need an expert opinion, contact Gary Schrader. gs-sj1944@comcast.net. He does not provide a phone number until after you email him. 

He improves/fixes mistakes of  brass models  as well as makes prototype models for several brass O scale manufacturers. He is an expert on steam locomotives like SF, UP, SP, NYC, etc. steam engines. 

Don

Thanks for the referral Don!

Suzanne---Sometimes it may be cheaper to let a dissatisfied buyer or even an  unscrupulous chiseler have a partial refund on an item such as this.  You will be out shipping and I presume insurance twice just to be where you were before you listed it. THEN, you may have to sell for considerably less, if indeed there is a defect.

Do some research on the buyer, such as feedback, length of time on ebay etc. Try to get a feel for his character.  If he seems on the up and up, Try to negotiate with him.  You don't REALLY want this item back, if you can settle for a reasonable refund-----

AND, sigh, I hope you aren't being taken advantage of for being a lady------You know about predatory mechanics, used car salesmen , etc.  

But wise of you to seek out some wisdom (whiz-dumb?) from us self-proclaimed experts!

Good Luck and don't let any jackals slicker you!  -Salty Rails-

If the buyer still has the model have them make a photo like my side view with a drafting triangle even offer to purchase the angle for them.  Have they made photos to try and show what they are referring to ?   Save my photo and mail it to them and see if they can duplicate.   Something I see, if you put a straight edge along the running board and extend it through the cab the front and rear of the cab along the bottom look dead on square.   j        

Salty Rails posted:

Suzanne---Sometimes it may be cheaper to let a dissatisfied buyer or even an  unscrupulous chiseler have a partial refund on an item such as this.  You will be out shipping and I presume insurance twice just to be where you were before you listed it. THEN, you may have to sell for considerably less, if indeed there is a defect.

Do some research on the buyer, such as feedback, length of time on ebay etc. Try to get a feel for his character.  If he seems on the up and up, Try to negotiate with him.  You don't REALLY want this item back, if you can settle for a reasonable refund-----

AND, sigh, I hope you aren't being taken advantage of for being a lady------You know about predatory mechanics, used car salesmen , etc.  

But wise of you to seek out some wisdom (whiz-dumb?) from us self-proclaimed experts!

Good Luck and don't let any jackals slicker you!  -Salty Rails-

Dear Salty,

I called eBay when I got the letter from the buyer. They said to get the item back so I could inspect it since ebay won't file an appeal based on photos alone. I can appeal the return if I suspected foul play. If that happens he will not get a refund and he will not have the item. But they said I had to have the item in order to dispute the claim.

If it is faulty, the refund is a given, but if not, a can of Whoop-*** is at the ready.

Here is the initial message:

JohnActon posted:

If the buyer still has the model have them make a photo like my side view with a drafting triangle even offer to purchase the angle for them.  Have they made photos to try and show what they are referring to ?   Save my photo and mail it to them and see if they can duplicate.   Something I see, if you put a straight edge along the running board and extend it through the cab the front and rear of the cab along the bottom look dead on square.   j        

I asked him to take photos and he said "I'm away from home at the moment", but when I replied to just return it, he got it to the Post Office.

Seems fishy to me.

bellymoondrop posted:

JohnActon posted:

If the buyer still has the model have them make a photo like my side view with a drafting triangle even offer to purchase the angle for them.  Have they made photos to try and show what they are referring to ?   Save my photo and mail it to them and see if they can duplicate.   Something I see, if you put a straight edge along the running board and extend it through the cab. The front and rear of the cab along the bottom look dead on square.   j        

I asked him to take photos and he said "I'm away from home at the moment", but when I replied to just return it, he got it to the Post Office.

Seems fishy to me.

Ya Think  ! ?     Agreed.                   Hope this is just a case of buyers remorse.      j

JohnActon posted:

bellymoondrop posted:

John Acton,

Thank you for taking the time to illustrate the kind of photos I should be taking. It is HUGELY appreciated!

I think I will be able to tell if the item returned is not the one I sent. 

Suzanne

 

Knowing for sure and proving are two different things If the one you mail has markings in black light ink and the one returned does not you have your proof.   j

JohnActon posted:

JohnActon posted:

bellymoondrop posted:

John Acton,

Thank you for taking the time to illustrate the kind of photos I should be taking. It is HUGELY appreciated!

I think I will be able to tell if the item returned is not the one I sent. 

Suzanne

 All I have is more photos than I listed that may bear out if there are discrepancies...

Knowing for sure and proving are two different things If the one you mail has markings in black light ink and the one returned does not you have your proof.   j

I've got one more suggestion. In the future, consider posting your for sale items here first. It will save you the eBay fees. I have had excellent success on this forum. 

BTW, a raw newbie refers to the tender as a "coal car", and frequently lists it separately from the engine (rendering the engine nearly useless).

Just my $0.02.

Gilly@N&W posted:

I've got one more suggestion. In the future, consider posting your for sale items here first. It will save you the eBay fees. I have had excellent success on this forum. 

BTW, a raw newbie refers to the tender as a "coal car", and frequently lists it separately from the engine (rendering the engine nearly useless).

Just my $0.02.

I posted a couple of items here but had no response. Someone wrote me to say this forum is largely 3-Railers, do you think that is accurate?

It is mostly three railers but I don't think that was the reason for the lack of responses. You might want to do a little more research on current pricing.

Pete

If nothing else, BellyMoon has gotten a short course on every conceivable suspicion and theory of machination and deceit imaginable. Be interesting to see how this turns out. 

Model railroading. The world's most dangerous hobby.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I've had pretty good luck selling a couple of guys claimed damage and wanted a partial refund.  After granting the first request, I decided to simply insist they ship it back for a refund.  I've never gotten any either of the remaining items back, and I'm fairly sure it was just a buyer trying to make a quick buck off me.

I'm not ashamed to say, I'm a pretty good packer, and normally when I ship something, it doesn't get damaged in transit.  I can't say that for stuff I've received, I get all sorts of interesting stuff out of the box.

FWIW, for expensive items, I do put ID on them.  If you look closely at any expensive board or inside the shell of a locomotive, you'll find an engraved mark from items I ship.

John ,  ten years ago I sold a Heathkit Mono tube amp on eBay to a guy in Moscow. The amp made it with nary a scratch all tubes intact and still functioning when he unpacked it.  I thought this was easier than packaging a brass loco if you don't have the original box the loco came in.  J

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

Larry

LLKJR posted:

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

 

Larry

So if I have 2000 positive feedbacks and one negative, I'm toast?

Simon

Simon Winter posted:

LLKJR posted:

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

 

Larry

So if I have 2000 positive feedbacks and one negative, I'm toast?

Simon

Yes.

mwb posted:

Simon Winter posted:

LLKJR posted:

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

 

Larry

So if I have 2000 positive feedbacks and one negative, I'm toast?

Simon

Yes.

 

 A seller can no longer leave negative feedback for a buyer so long as the buyer pays on time. It's been this way for quite a while now. So are you aware that the feedback rating showing in the sellers ad only goes back one year and you have to actually go to their feedback page and look deep to be certain.  Do you go to the trouble of looking up the feedback of the person who left the negative. Sometimes it is the person who fires off the first negative who is the crook. My very first ebay transaction ended up with me getting a negative feedback. From the time the seller's ad started till the time it ended, and I won, the seller changed his eBay ID. This is before PayPal and the seller wanted me to send a $300 USPS money order to a PO Box address in the Arizona boondocks a town that is not on any map. This raised some red flags in my head so I requested a phone number and the seller refused to give me a phone number so I walked away without paying and he left me a Negative feedback.  I did the same for him with an explanation on the feedback as to why I did not pay. Then the guy added an explanation to my feedback that I tried to negotiate the price down after I had won which was a bald face lie.  I sort of kept up with the guy looking at his feedback from time to time and about a year later he had five more negatives and was banned from eBay, then without my request the negative feedback I had received from him just disappeared.    The people at eBay really do try and make their system fair, honest and safe but crooks and idiots are very clever.          j

LLKJR posted:

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

 

Larry

With that attitude, I hope that I never bid on anything that you list! BTW, my feedback rating is 100% positive.

So the item has been returned. A wonderful man I was connected to through this site came over to inspect it. He put the railing right and said there is nothing wrong with the train.

The buyer mangled the foam on the return, so I'm steamed about that.

Calling eBay to ask what my options are...

Simon Winter posted:

LLKJR posted:

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

 

Larry

So if I have 2000 positive feedbacks and one negative, I'm toast?

Simon

No, I would say more like a grilled cheese sandwich.

PRRMP54 posted:

LLKJR posted:

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

 

Larry

With that attitude, I hope that I never bid on anything that you list! BTW, my feedback rating is 100% positive.

Well with an attitude like that it is no wonder your feedback is 100%

JohnActon posted:

mwb posted:

Simon Winter posted:

LLKJR posted:

I don’t sell much on ebay, but when I do, if someone bids on my item and they have any negative feedbak as a buyer, their bid gets cancelled and they get blocked.

 

Larry

So if I have 2000 positive feedbacks and one negative, I'm toast?

Simon

Yes.

 

 A seller can no longer leave negative feedback for a buyer so long as the buyer pays on time. It's been this way for quite a while now. So are you aware that the feedback rating showing in the sellers ad only goes back one year and you have to actually go to their feedback page and look deep to be certain.  Do you go to the trouble of looking up the feedback of the person who left the negative. Sometimes it is the person who fires off the first negative who is the crook. My very first ebay transaction ended up with me getting a negative feedback. From the time the seller's ad started till the time it ended, and I won, the seller changed his eBay ID. This is before PayPal and the seller wanted me to send a $300 USPS money order to a PO Box address in the Arizona boondocks a town that is not on any map. This raised some red flags in my head so I requested a phone number and the seller refused to give me a phone number so I walked away without paying and he left me a Negative feedback.  I did the same for him with an explanation on the feedback as to why I did not pay. Then the guy added an explanation to my feedback that I tried to negotiate the price down after I had won which was a bald face lie.  I sort of kept up with the guy looking at his feedback from time to time and about a year later he had five more negatives and was banned from eBay, then without my request the negative feedback I had received from him just disappeared.    The people at eBay really do try and make their system fair, honest and safe but crooks and idiots are very clever.          j

Your reply is too wordy.  “No bids for you, one month!”

bellymoondrop posted:

So the item has been returned. A wonderful man I was connected to through this site came over to inspect it. He put the railing right and said there is nothing wrong with the train.

The buyer mangled the foam on the return, so I'm steamed about that.

Calling eBay to ask what my options are...

Hey kiddo, my email is in my profile, I checked your profile but couldn’t find your email, contact me if you wish, I’ve been selling trains on that certain web site for many many moons now.....if you need some pointers and some ideas so you don’t get stung, you can hit me up...........Pat...

Ok guys after a bit of fun, it’s not easy to determine who is trustworthy on ebay as a buyer quick pay or not.  I had an issue on ebay with a buyer and after some research, I discovered several sellers also had issues with this buyer by reading the responses of the seller to negative feedback left from the buyer.  I had dealings with several of the sellers that this buyer trashed and I believe the sellers and not the buyer.  After the issue was resolved through eBay, I blocked that buyer.  

I just bought a beautiful Atlas SW loco from a seller in the USA we had a few hitches at first, he had never used the Global shipping system before, we worked it out and we both learnt something and we ended up like old friends.

It's amazing how you can work out  if a seller is honest or not by emails but then again after many years and hundreds of transactions I should be able.

I still do my research and am wary of the seller on the first transaction because I am 16,000 miles away. I'm happy I get what I want in the end. Roo.

harmonyards posted:

bellymoondrop posted:

So the item has been returned. A wonderful man I was connected to through this site came over to inspect it. He put the railing right and said there is nothing wrong with the train.

The buyer mangled the foam on the return, so I'm steamed about that.

Calling eBay to ask what my options are...

Hey kiddo, my email is in my profile, I checked your profile but couldn’t find your email, contact me if you wish, I’ve been selling trains on that certain web site for many many moons now.....if you need some pointers and some ideas so you don’t get stung, you can hit me up...........Pat...

Email sent, thanks Pat!

Here are 2 photos the buyer provided saying:

"For your information, I am an expert on O Scale Steam Locomotives, being so for the last 50 years, and if any other expert examined the model and found it to be perfect, he or she must be blind. I have attached photos I took prior to shipping and anyone can plainly see the cab floor is curved where it is supposed to be flat, and the cab is not square with the boiler, it is tilted up in the rear and is very pronounced. The back wall of the cab should be at 90 degrees perpendicular to the rails."

Can anyone concur with this claim? 

OK I see with a close up what he is taking about.

Chuck Sartor posted:

OK I see with a close up what he is taking about.

So he is correct? That's what I am trying to determine.Thanks, Chuck.

From the picture it appears the buyer is correct. You can check the cab floor by placing a straight edge along side it to see if its curved up or not. A camera lens could create that same distortion but straight edges and machinist squares will tell for sure.

Pete

Norton posted:

From the picture it appears the buyer is correct. You can check the cab floor by placing a straight edge along side it to see if its curved up or not. A camera lens could create that same distortion but straight edges and machinist squares will tell for sure.

Pete

Thanks Pete, I appreciate the input.

Yes.  That cab is seriously crooked.

bob2 posted:

Yes.  That cab is seriously crooked.

I wonder what happened to it! Maybe it got dropped.

Looks like an easy fix to me.  I wouldn't have complained.

Jay

Is this a picture you took before sending it out?

Its not a perfect angle but the cab floor does not appear to be curved up nor does the cab.

Are you confident this is the same engine you received back?

Pete

Norton posted:

Is this a picture you took before sending it out?

Its not a perfect angle but the cab floor does not appear to be curved up nor does the cab.

Are you confident this is the same engine you received back?

Pete

Hi Pete,

No, I'm not confident and I didn't mark the original item as has been suggested going forward. I actually feel ill right now thinking about it.

The buyer escalated rapidly in his communication and of course I was fearful of getting a negative review.

Live & learn, I'll be more careful going forward.

Thanks,

Suzanne

Pete,

And yes, that's a picture I took before it sold.

Suzanne    I ship from the USA quite regularly, to Down Under, and to me that is shipping damage, Ive experanced it a few times. The cab and cowcatcher are the most vulnerable, once the loco starts moving in the box, or has room to move this is the possible outcome. I concur with Roo if it was shipped, and insured there should be away to work it out. To me, and this is my opinion, I cant see any mis alignment, after enlarging your photos. The packages we sent through the mail can go through fearsome trauma before they reach us.

I'm suspecting that the back of the cab took a jostle during shipping - looks like it is screwed to the rear of the floor and the jostle bent the floor upwards a bit.  Agree with Jay's comment.

Looks like two separate models.  Zoomed in, the before picture appears perfectly straight.  The buyer’s escalated temperament makes my spidey senses tingle as well. 

Tom

You might have already done this.

Why not send the buyers name to a few of the experts like Bob2 and Jay etc, OFFLINE they might know the person and be able to tell you if he is an honest bloke or a shifty bloke I repeat offline not through this thread.

If someone knows him to be an honest person then it could be your problem the way it was packed, he does say he has been in the game for 50 years someone here must know him, but do it discrete.  Roo.

Right or wrong, the buyer sounds like an arrogant jerk. I can't think of much I can do to help you at this point, but here are some packing tips that may save you some future grief.

One of the biggest factors, is that the loco should be packed so it can't move around inside it's box. If the loco can move around, it's like a person in an automobile in a wreck that is NOT wearing a seat belt. The car hits something solid and stops dead, and the person inside becomes a projectile and hits the windshield or whatever.

Those engines are heavy, and if not secured inside the box, they can fly forward or backward with a lot of inertia and stuff can get bent. Make sure stuff is immobilized in the center of the box.

Put that box in a larger shipping carton and pad it on all 6 sides. A couple inches of padding on all sides is generally sufficient. And yes....mark the model/models in an unobtrusive spot.

Doing it that way has worked for me many many times!

Regards and Happy Holidays,

Simon

PS: I'd block that toady from bidding on anything else!

The few brass locos that I have received over the years were all secured to a wood base before any packing started. They survived to Australia.

Agree with all the above, including Jay's comment.  Easily fixed.  I have the feeling it was shipping damage, which you can no doubt prove with before and after photos.

I doubt that Jay or I know the purchaser. He or she would have contacted us for straightening.

Thanks all for the excellent tips going forward. The site I sell on pretty much said I had no choice but to issue a full refund, so best to let it go and move on or my Irish temper might flair! 

Suzanne,

Yeah sometimes ya just gotta let it go.

A while back one of the members of this forum bought an old Max Gray Berkshire, ebay I think, it was in really bad shape.  Some of the damage was from shipping, some had occurred earlier (I could tell because of the repairs done to it).  I told the guy to send it to me and I'd see what I could do.  If memory serves, there were drivers out of quarter, broken journals where the drivers go, broken steps, ladders, defective motor, and some other issues I've forgotten.  I felt bad for the guy and got real charitable.  I told him to just pay for the return shipping and I'd write off the rest.  He wholeheartedly accepted my offer so I mailed the model back to him.  It's been nearly two months and I've yet to be paid for the shipping (it was only around $30).  Can't find him now.  The moral of the story...all of us get shafted sometimes.

I'll still give away parts and help people out but it sure leaves a bad taste.  Maybe some day I'll get to meet him face to face.

Jay

Jay

I hope whoever did that will read your post and get a check off to you...

Mark in Oregon

Jay,

How generous you are! Well at least I can say my positive experiences far outweigh the negative. I did have a recent buyer who requested a  different carrier then USPS and it was more money so I send a PayPal invoice but I’ve had no response / no payment.

Thanks Mark,

I'm not betting on it.

Jay

Suzanne,

For sure, way more positive.  Maybe the guy fell on hard times.  I just don't know.  If he had and contacted me I'd probably say, forget it.  It's really just the principle of the whole thing.

As one of my English buddies told me, Sailor Vee!  For some reason he didn't like the French.  Weird friend he was.

Jay

When I was a young man I worked at a huge package handling facility. You cannot imagine the  impacts a box takes. The video shows the hits a box takes. If the packing foam had lost its elasticity it could have turned into a quasi concrete making things even worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0-ukGIwcH8 

Its clear it is bent and it is either 1 of 2 things.  Shipping damage, or buyer dropped it and bent it.

Impossible to know.  So I would submit a claim to the shipper or resell it and note it is damaged.

Either way packaging is utmost key with these items.  They are heavy and when a package is dropped the weight can be slammed into the end.

Brass is soft.  Anything with weight has momentum and slams into ground harder than something lightweight.

That's the one thing about shipping these things buyers don't understand.  To protect them they need lots of packing, but that creates a much larger box and more expensive shipping which the buy never wants to pay. 

Its a catch 22 situation.

I'm smelling a large rodent (of unusual size).   Why would the buyer with all that experience say this unless they're looking to swap locos (my emphasis)?

"Unfortunately there is a big problem. The locomotive cab is bent out of square with the rest of the locomotive. It appears to be bent up in the rear, and with no damage to the paint, it seems it was assembled this way, with the damage not being caused in transit. This stands out like a sore thumb, and is completely unacceptable to me. Your photos in the listing did not illustrate this condition. I wish to return it for a full refund. Please advise."

To me the damage the buyer shows wasn't shown in your sales pics because is wasn't there!  So it can only be shipping damage or buyer-caused.  Unless the bent loco is a ringer.  To my untrained eye the buyer's pics look like a duller finish than in your pics, and what's the pink blobby thing in the cab?

Paranoid Pete.

The "pink blobby thing" in the cab is probably a reflection of the hand used to take the close-up picture.

Chuck

Fred Lundgren posted:

When I was a young man I worked at a huge package handling facility. You cannot imagine the  impacts a box takes. The video shows the hits a box takes. If the packing foam had lost its elasticity it could have turned into a quasi concrete making things even worse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0-ukGIwcH8 

Wow, it really makes those "Fragile Handle with Care" stickers seem useless!

Pete M posted:

I'm smelling a large rodent (of unusual size).   Why would the buyer with all that experience say this unless they're looking to swap locos (my emphasis)?

"Unfortunately there is a big problem. The locomotive cab is bent out of square with the rest of the locomotive. It appears to be bent up in the rear, and with no damage to the paint, it seems it was assembled this way, with the damage not being caused in transit. This stands out like a sore thumb, and is completely unacceptable to me. Your photos in the listing did not illustrate this condition. I wish to return it for a full refund. Please advise."

To me the damage the buyer shows wasn't shown in your sales pics because is wasn't there!  So it can only be shipping damage or buyer-caused.  Unless the bent loco is a ringer.  To my untrained eye the buyer's pics look like a duller finish than in your pics, and what's the pink blobby thing in the cab?

Paranoid Pete.

 

Dear Paranoid Pete,

A ROUS is likely. I woke up feeling so dismayed about this. The site I sell on really dropped the ball. I called right away when this happened and rather than suggest a shipping claim they insisted that I get the item back so I could inspect the damage claim. Big mistake. And yesterday when I called to say it wasn't in the same shape that I sent it, they said,"Well you accepted the return so you have to issue a full refund now."

Rude & (quite possibly) an unscrupulous customer, and horrible advice from the site made this a real mess.

Plus I hate that this fine piece got damaged. Is it fixable? At what cost?

PRR1950 posted:

The "pink blobby thing" in the cab is probably a reflection of the hand used to take the close-up picture.

Chuck

SandJam posted:

Its clear it is bent and it is either 1 of 2 things.  Shipping damage, or buyer dropped it and bent it.

Impossible to know.  So I would submit a claim to the shipper or resell it and note it is damaged.

Either way packaging is utmost key with these items.  They are heavy and when a package is dropped the weight can be slammed into the end.

Brass is soft.  Anything with weight has momentum and slams into ground harder than something lightweight.

That's the one thing about shipping these things buyers don't understand.  To protect them they need lots of packing, but that creates a much larger box and more expensive shipping which the buy never wants to pay. 

Its a catch 22 situation.

 

 

 

 

Can this be repaired?

Simon Winter posted:

Right or wrong, the buyer sounds like an arrogant jerk. I can't think of much I can do to help you at this point, but here are some packing tips that may save you some future grief.

One of the biggest factors, is that the loco should be packed so it can't move around inside it's box. If the loco can move around, it's like a person in an automobile in a wreck that is NOT wearing a seat belt. The car hits something solid and stops dead, and the person inside becomes a projectile and hits the windshield or whatever.

Those engines are heavy, and if not secured inside the box, they can fly forward or backward with a lot of inertia and stuff can get bent. Make sure stuff is immobilized in the center of the box.

Put that box in a larger shipping carton and pad it on all 6 sides. A couple inches of padding on all sides is generally sufficient. And yes....mark the model/models in an unobtrusive spot.

Doing it that way has worked for me many many times!

Regards and Happy Holidays,

Simon

PS: I'd block that toady from bidding on anything else!

Thanks Simon,

I'll implement all those tips for sure!

Suzanne

Is it repairable?  Yes.

Cost?  Not sure.  It shouldn't take that long.

Jay

Thanks, Jay!

Look at the top of the cab where it meets the boiler. Is the front of the cab bent or cracked at that point. If cracked you should be able to pull back at the back of the cab roof and see some movement. If bent it will take more force to straighten it. Worse case the cab has to be removed (unsoldered), straightened, resoldered, then the engine repainted. At that point it may not be worth it, at least for you to do it. Someone who does a lot of this may be interested for themselves as salvage project.

Pete