The title of my topic says it all. I sure would like to see a PRR Consolidation 2-8-0. A "Baby Train Master" would be a nice to see also.
I am keeping my fingers crossed!
Norm
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Perhaps that little Train Master is a push since so few were produced...certainly it would be a real niche production.
Norm
Higher prices is what we can expect from 3rdrail. Not blaming Scott, it's the economics of the industry these days. When the the NYC H10 mikado was announced it was listed for 1700.00 Steep for a mikado with generic sounds and control system. Yes highly detailed, but I was willing to bite the bullet for this one.
Years later of waiting and Scott re-announces the project now at a price of 2200.00
Sorry to say at this time in my life and what I have already, I'm going to have to pass. The drop dead for the Mikado project was supposed to be last March but no word. I'm guessing the H10 is not getting enough reservations to move forward. The longer the delay the more likely the price is going to go up and the less likely it's not going to happen.
Sorry for being a downer but there's plenty on the secondary market to keep me happy. Good luck.
I would love to see them offer the VGN EL3B-S, George Washington Pass Set (GGD), as well as more rolling stock. FWIW, I would also be in for a "baby trainmaster".
Greg P
A “new” engine, one not made before, is likely for diesels. Probably some reissues now that Scott is doing those. Not sure about any more of Scott’s superbly crafted steamers. As Gary stated, price is increasing for a variety of reasons and Scott’s target market in decreasing.
Also, the timeline to bring a new engine from announcement to delivery is too long. That engine that I really wanted when announced may no longer interest me 2 years later, or I found something else just as good.
I am still lobbying for the 2nd run of SD7/9’s to have the CB&Q offered in red/gray this time. Those of us who bought in the first offering already have our “blackbirds”.
@superwarp1 posted:Higher prices is what we can expect from 3rdrail. Not blaming Scott, it's the economics of the industry these days. When the the NYC H10 mikado was announced it was listed for 1700.00 Steep for a mikado with generic sounds and control system. Yes highly detailed, but I was willing to bite the bullet for this one.
Years later of waiting and Scott re-announces the project now at a price of 2200.00
Sorry for being a downer but there's plenty on the secondary market to keep me happy. Good luck.
Some of us have resorted to building our own using older two rail engines but there are a limited number of suitable prototypes for that. You might consider keeping an eye out for a two rail version of engines you are looking for. I have a feeling custom builders may be coming online in the not too distant future. Might even be a plus considering custom builds would not be limited to TMCC.
Pete
I would love to see some N&W CF and CG cabooses in brass. Weavers are now $400 when you can find one.
Alco RS3
@Trainbros89 posted:I would love to see them offer the VGN EL3B-S, George Washington Pass Set (GGD), as well as more rolling stock. FWIW, I would also be in for a "baby trainmaster".
Greg P
I'm guessing you'll see the VGN jackshaft electrics sometime. It sounds like there is a lot of demand out there every time they are mentioned. I'd also be in for a 3rd Rail version of just about any FM diesel.
I've been thrilled with my recent GGD streamlined passenger sets and am looking forward to more in the future.
@Norm Charbonneau posted:I would love to see some N&W CF and CG cabooses in brass. Weavers are now $400 when you can find one.
I have been emailing Scott for sometime about offering these.
@BlueFeather posted:I'm guessing you'll see the VGN jackshaft electrics sometime. It sounds like there is a lot of demand out there every time they are mentioned. I'd also be in for a 3rd Rail version of just about any FM diesel.
I've been thrilled with my recent GGD streamlined passenger sets and am looking forward to more in the future.
I emailed Scott about the Jackshaft a few months ago, and he indicated that it's "possible". Fingers crossed!
@Rob Leese posted:I am still lobbying for the 2nd run of SD7/9’s to have the CB&Q offered in red/gray this time. Those of us who bought in the first offering already have our “blackbirds”.
I’d like this too Rob. 👍
Folks, A one person lobby won’t cut it. If there are more people out there that Want this specific paint job, Email Scott !!! Numbers Count !!!
Cheers 😉
I've taken to buying well-preserved locomotives on the secondary market from Trainz and have been very satisfied with what I've gotten from them. Until recently, everything I bought was brand new but I'm not buying $1500+ locomotives these days... I just received a nice MTH Premier New Haven EP-3 from Trainz. Well worth the price. That might be a good model for Sunset/3rd Rail to offer. Another suggestion for Scott Mann - rerun New Haven FL9s. I would also be interested in Alco RS-1s.
Ten or fifteen years ago, MTH was making items of more interest to me than they are now, so I'm buying used instead of what they're producing now.
MELGAR
I think I'm done with the head-end power dreams. I have a couple items in that category that Scott did years ago that I keep my eye out for on the secondary market. Even so, those prices are competing for priority budget dollars...like keeping my non-ecofriendly vehicles running well and with new 'shoes'.
OTOH...I'm impressed with some of 3rd Rail and GGD's latest rolling stock items...and some of the bantering of wishes thereof on the forum. Like engineering/dynamometer cars...Helium cars...Multi-flag passenger cars (streamline and/or HW).
Or backwoods/short line complete 'trains'...Doodlebug-ish power with a trailer car or two. Maybe something with a somewhat 'generic' doodlebug power and a trailer car ( or two)...like Santa Fe's Train #26. Or Rock Island's Train #26! You know...a complete passenger+freight train for the smaller O scale layouts...'at home' on a simpler layout...small town(s)...rural setting...no big engine terminals...no ladder-track yards...less manicured single track R-O-W...slower speeds...no CTC signals required...manually operated switches... (sigh).
FWIW, of course. And IMHO...always.
KD
There are always new ideas in the works. Just need to get the current backlog of projects into design and production. 
@CAPPilot posted:A “new” engine, one not made before, is likely for diesels. Probably some reissues now that Scott is doing those. Not sure about any more of Scott’s superbly crafted steamers. As Gary stated, price is increasing for a variety of reasons and Scott’s target market in decreasing.
Also, the timeline to bring a new engine from announcement to delivery is too long. That engine that I really wanted when announced may no longer interest me 2 years later, or I found something else just as good.
Steam looks to be Very Dead. Escalating prices, Fewer buyers, fractured markets.
For a new model, FM diesels are pretty attractive to me - especially the Erie built. The roads that had this model are mostly biggies, popular, and in large buyer markets. There’s only 7 roads but some diversity can be had with freight and window variants.
My second interest is a run 2 for the FT diesels. These were last done in 2014 with only 11 models offered then and 3 of those were SF paint variations. Lots of expanded road possibilities here as there were 23 original buyers Plus a demonstrator. I bet we’d probably see some upgrades with a new offering too.
Check out the wiki list and see if your favorite road is listed for these 2 options. Email Scott if you’d support these options with reservations if you are interested !!!!!! Numbers Count !!!!!!!!!
@Norm posted:Perhaps that little Trainmaster is a push since so few were produced...certainly it would be a real niche production.
Norm
First, what are you thinking when you say "baby trainmaster" I'm thinking of the 1:1 that was CNW and N&W?and TVA? only 2-3 roads at best?
Im waiting for the SDP40F/ F45 for Amtrak like others.
But Im in for the Last Century ALCo C636 for demo, CN, Cartier, IC, PC, CR, DL&w SPS, and Others....
I could also use a correct RS3 for PRR [Long Tank] and Sealed Beam headlights. Trainphone a plus!
Well I received my Susquehanna RDC last week from 3rd Rail and it is great. Runs perfectly and the sounds are crisp and loud. I wish I could buy another but money doesn't grow on trees! If you want a truly accurate RDC call Scott..
One locomotive that has never been done in 3 rail O is the Alco HH660 and its variants. Numerous RRs had these. I'd be in for one each in Boston and Maine/Portland Terminal liveries.
The true Baby Traimaster (not an actual FM term as opposed the the H-24-66 Trainmaster) is an H-16-66 with only 4 buyers and there were two very different distinctions, the early ones with the stylized Raymond Loewy body and C trucks similiar to Baldwin C trucks and the late ones with the more typical boxier body and FM trimount trucks. A true rarity indeed to model.
Contrary to common discussion the H-16-44 is not a Baby Trainmaster.
But the KM diesel hydraulics got produced so as has been said before, If you want on call Scott and specify which body style.
Myself. I've already stated before in other threads, I'm in for a Virginian EL-3a jackshaft electric set.
@NHVRYGray posted:Myself. I've already stated before in other threads, I'm in for a Virginian EL-3a jackshaft electric set.
I’m also interested in the EL-3a and previously asked Scott to consider. Hope he will!
Would also love to see a Dynamometer car, and a Mckeen Motor Car. Scott has told me in the past that the Dyna car is probably “not likely”.
A scale transfer caboose in O scale. No one has done one since a brass importer, did one years ago. Do it in plastic / metal - many roads had them.
How would you all like a model of the EMD Training Center Car (School Car). I have a custom made model from an old Walthers kit, in HO, plus I have copies of the EMD black & white 8X10 photos of the car, and,,,,,,,,,,,,,the EMD Styling & Painting diagram. I would be more than happy to loan all my stuff to Scott, if he thinks the project would be worthwhile.
@Hot Water posted:How would you all like a model of the EMD Training Center Car (School Car). I have a custom made model from an old Walthers kit, in HO, plus I have copies of the EMD black & white 8X10 photos of the car, and,,,,,,,,,,,,,the EMD Styling & Painting diagram. I would be more than happy to loan all my stuff to Scott, if he thinks the project would be worthwhile.
Hey Hot,
Would you be able to provide a picture? I tried searching the web, but couldn’t find anything.
Regards
@superwarp1 posted:Higher prices is what we can expect from 3rdrail. Not blaming Scott, it's the economics of the industry these days. When the the NYC H10 mikado was announced it was listed for 1700.00 Steep for a mikado with generic sounds and control system. Yes highly detailed, but I was willing to bite the bullet for this one.
Years later of waiting and Scott re-announces the project now at a price of 2200.00
Sorry for being a downer but there's plenty on the secondary market to keep me happy. Good luck.
Your just stating the truth. I don't know what's going to happen but I don't see many new people getting into the hobby in any scale let alone O.
Prices on everything are through the roof and still going up. The whole world has gone crazy.
@superwarp1 posted:The drop dead for the Mikado project was supposed to be last March but no word. I'm guessing the H10 is not getting enough reservations to move forward. The longer the delay the more likely the price is going to go up and the less likely it's not going to happen.
Gary,
I had emailed Scott earlier this summer and asked about the status of the H10 project as I am on the reservation list for one of the P&LE models. He replied that the project is definitely a go and it is in the design stage with delivery expected next year(if I remember correctly). Being a P&LE fan from the Pittsburgh area, this will most likely be my only chance to buy one of these particular engines as I can't see anyone else ever producing a correct model in O scale.
Both Baldwin and FM made some interesting road switchers. like you say, I think most had few purchasers, but there was a lot of variations with a few each I think.
I have 2 Carworks FMs. I particularly like the FM H20-44, which is the road switcher model with the end cab so it looks a like a swticher. The other I have is an H-16-44 with the CLiner style trucks which are correct for PRR. Carworks did them with both those trucks and AAR trucks. Finally I have a Carworks VO1000. Carworks also did the HH660 in brass.
All the Carworks locos I have seen have the good single motor Weaver drive that is very easy to maintain and repair. Although I have never had to repair one but I have had to repair many RS3s and FAs This drive does like wider curves but runs much smoother in my personal experience than 2 motor drives.
Weaver did offer 3 rail wheelsets that drop right into these trucks. You would need to add 3rd rail pickups. P&D Hobbies used to stock these and the 2 rail wheelsets. They still sell parts on their website.
As usual I represented Sunset Models / 3rd Rail / Golden Gate Depot at the last Strasburg, PA 2 rail meet. I had posters with several new possibilities including the New Haven and other roads streamlined passenger cars in 4 car sets including a baggage coach, coach, diner, and parlor car. Extra coaches and parlor cars will be available.
These are similar to the older Weaver cars but are streamlined with skirts and fluted siding. I also announced the New Haven's EP-4 which is similar to the MTH EF which was only done in 3 rail. Sunset would do this locomotive in 2 and 3 rail. It does have slight variations from the MTH locomotive, the most notable being the length of the side vents.
I also listed the PRR GG1 in either tuscan or brunswick 5 stripe schemes with a good drive system with all drivers powered.
If you have interest in any of these projects please e-mail or call Scott and let him know.
@rheil posted:As usual I represented Sunset Models / 3rd Rail / Golden Gate Depot at the last Strasburg, PA 2 rail meet. I had posters with several new possibilities including the New Haven and other roads streamlined passenger cars in 4 car sets including a baggage coach, coach, diner, and parlor car. Extra coaches and parlor cars will be available.
These are similar to the older Weaver cars but are streamlined with skirts and fluted siding. I also announced the New Haven's EP-4 which is similar to the MTH EF which was only done in 3 rail. Sunset would do this locomotive in 2 and 3 rail. It does have slight variations from the MTH locomotive, the most notable being the length of the side vents.
I also listed the PRR GG1 in either tuscan or brunswick 5 stripe schemes with a good drive system with all drivers powered.
If you have interest in any of these projects please e-mail or call Scott and let him know.
What “other roads” were you promoting for 4 car passenger “sets” ???
My steam loco inventory is at the point where I have nearly everything of interest. Same with diesels, though I might go for some re-issues of Fs and GPs.
I was on the H10 Mike list years ago, but asked Scott to take me off it as retirement approached. I committed to an H10b recently, deciding that I could afford one last "splurge". But that's a one-shot expenditure. While I might like to see a NYC K-5 Pacific, I couldn't afford it at the H10 price.
On the car front, I'd like to see GGD produce some "Great Steel Fleet" Budd cars that were in general service on the NYC, such as coaches and sleepers that were on trains like the SW Limited, Wolverine, etc. They need not match the finish of the ESE cars.
@rheil posted:As usual I represented Sunset Models / 3rd Rail / Golden Gate Depot at the last Strasburg, PA 2 rail meet. I had posters with several new possibilities including the New Haven and other roads streamlined passenger cars in 4 car sets including a baggage coach, coach, diner, and parlor car. Extra coaches and parlor cars will be available.
These are similar to the older Weaver cars but are streamlined with skirts and fluted siding. I also announced the New Haven's EP-4 which is similar to the MTH EF which was only done in 3 rail. Sunset would do this locomotive in 2 and 3 rail. It does have slight variations from the MTH locomotive, the most notable being the length of the side vents.
I also listed the PRR GG1 in either tuscan or brunswick 5 stripe schemes with a good drive system with all drivers powered.
If you have interest in any of these projects please e-mail or call Scott and let him know.
I came to this thread to second the Trainmaster-styled H-16-44, but authentic New Haven 8600 style cars and an EP-4 is more than I could have hoped for. Saving up already, and I'll be sure to email Scott.
Any chance there is a digital copy of this poster we could see?
~Chris
CNJ/NJT GP40P/PH-2
Guys, the term "Trainmaster" is a supervisory person on the railroads. The FM "Train Master" was the 2400 HP diesel electric locomotive. Even a "baby Trainmaster" would be a "baby supervisor".
I would be interested in a cab forward or some other small western steam. I'd also like to see a SD70MAC, or any other modern diesel.
As for passenger trains, I really want to see the Surfliner, and would be interested in the Eagle Azteca.
@Jim S posted:One locomotive that has never been done in 3 rail O is the Alco HH660 and its variants. Numerous RRs had these. I'd be in for one each in Boston and Maine/Portland Terminal liveries.
Excellent suggestion. I would buy a New Haven, Boston & Albany, Boston & Maine and New York Central Alco high-hood.
MELGAR
Mel. Atlas did the NH Alco HH660 in HO. Maybe they can make one in O.
I might be the only person interested in this, but I would love to see someone (3rd Rail, Lionel, Atlas, anyone) produce more late 1800s early 1900s locomotives. I get that they're small and hard to fit electronics into, but I think with some creativity and effort, they could be done.
@MR-150 posted:Alco RS3
Ditto.
A couple of years ago, I emailed Scott about this possibility (in CN green and gold) and he said "It's not the first time RS-3 has been mentioned. We will see what the future holds."
I would like a C&O K-2,K-3, or K3a Mikado. These were workhorse, general purpose engines whereas Allegheny's, Greenbriers, Kanawha's get all the glory from railfans (and manufacturers). Realistically I don't see these being produced as there probably isn't much demand and the high cost of brass steam production now days.
I would go for the Virginian EL-3 jackshafts, however even if this was a project announced tomorrow it would probably be about 3 years before it was produced. I'm getting turned off by the extremely long lead times for anything (not just 3rd Rail) so I'm wondering how enthusiastic I will be about any project years in the future.
Ken
@PSM posted:I might be the only person interested in this, but I would love to see someone (3rd Rail, Lionel, Atlas, anyone) produce more late 1800s early 1900s locomotives. I get that they're small and hard to fit electronics into, but I think with some creativity and effort, they could be done.
Great idea. If GGD wants to sell anything from the 1800s that is prototypical to the Baltimore and Ohio I will line up to buy it. Anything prototypical to the B&O from the 20th Century will grab my attention and usually get a reservation. My fondest hallucination is getting a P-7d with an authentic consist for the Cincinnatian. Please?
@PSM posted:I might be the only person interested in this, but I would love to see someone (3rd Rail, Lionel, Atlas, anyone) produce more late 1800s early 1900s locomotives. I get that they're small and hard to fit electronics into, but I think with some creativity and effort, they could be done.
I would go for these also. Any of the western railroads would interest me, especially California.
@Norman R posted:My fondest hallucination is getting a P-7d with an authentic consist for the Cincinnatian. Please?
You're 8 or 9 years too late. Sunset/3rd Rail did the streamlined P-7d and Cincinnatian cars in 2015. Only 40 3-rail and 10 2-rail locomotives were supposed to be made.
@Bob posted:You're 8 or 9 years too late. Sunset/3rd Rail did the streamlined P-7d and Cincinnatian cars in 2015. Only 40 3-rail and 10 2-rail locomotives were supposed to be made.
I assisted with this project on behalf of GGD and 3rd Rail in July of 2015, so yes 8 years late. 50 total P7-Ds were indeed made. While finding one on the secondary market is not likely anytime soon, there were more car sets made. The P-7E was made in larger numbers.
As for the future and new items, lots of great ideas here, but the reality of the O scale marketplace is a tough one. Plastic diesels seem to do best only because there are enough road names to meet the MOQ for a sales price that is acceptable to the buyer. Locomotives that only were ordered by a single or a very few roads probably won't get the orders to go forward. Remember the E60? I preordered 3 as did several other people I know, and we couldn't get the units to go forward on it.
Plastic tooled passenger cars render detail the best, but that is a lot of cars that need to be sold to offer them at a cost that the market will bear. Heavyweight cars are most economically done in plastic. Brass is getting to the unobtanium price for cars these days so even a single car let alone a full train is extremely expensive.
We probably won't see new steam locomotives very often. As a transition modeler myself, I would love to see several steam locomotives made, but we suffer as a hobby community on the inability to agree on a steam locomotive that could sell in the kinds of numbers, even in brass, that is required to make the project viable. The NYC H10s may very well be the last steam we will see for the time being.
However, I don't want to be overly negative. There are some great projects in development and some interesting ones coming down the road. I am personally excited that Superliners are moving forward along with Genesis and Charger locomotives. The Eagle is in production as is the SD40-2 which has been a long time coming, but I think it has been worth the wait. FA's while a 2024 project aren't that far off. Reruns are only being done now to fill gaps between the new offerings and not being done as a replacement for newly tooled trains unlike other manufacturers. The future of scale O is exciting and all I can conclude with is keep your ideas coming!
How about another run of the N&W 4-8-0 Class M's or some PRR P5a boxcabs?
It still baffles me that no one has done a chop nose GP9 in O scale. This would seem like a no brainer given how many roads had or still have them.
@EricTrainMan posted:It still baffles me that no one has done a chop nose GP9 in O scale. This would seem like a no brainer given how many roads had or still have them.
The problem with that is, EMD delivered VERY FEW "low nose" GP9 model locomotives, and I believe only the Southern Pacific RR received them. All other GP9 units with the so-called "chop nose" where all modified, i.e. "chopped" by the individual railroads, and each RR tended to "chop" the short nose differently. So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,how would 3rd Rail model such varied models?
@GG1 4877 posted:I assisted with this project on behalf of GGD and 3rd Rail in July of 2015, so yes 8 years late. 50 total P7-Ds were indeed made. While finding one on the secondary market is not likely anytime soon, there were more car sets made. The P-7E was made in larger numbers.
As for the future and new items, lots of great ideas here, but the reality of the O scale marketplace is a tough one. Plastic diesels seem to do best only because there are enough road names to meet the MOQ for a sales price that is acceptable to the buyer. Locomotives that only were ordered by a single or a very few roads probably won't get the orders to go forward. Remember the E60? I preordered 3 as did several other people I know, and we couldn't get the units to go forward on it.
Plastic tooled passenger cars render detail the best, but that is a lot of cars that need to be sold to offer them at a cost that the market will bear. Heavyweight cars are most economically done in plastic. Brass is getting to the unobtanium price for cars these days so even a single car let alone a full train is extremely expensive.
We probably won't see new steam locomotives very often. As a transition modeler myself, I would love to see several steam locomotives made, but we suffer as a hobby community on the inability to agree on a steam locomotive that could sell in the kinds of numbers, even in brass, that is required to make the project viable. The NYC H10s may very well be the last steam we will see for the time being.
However, I don't want to be overly negative. There are some great projects in development and some interesting ones coming down the road. I am personally excited that Superliners are moving forward along with Genesis and Charger locomotives. The Eagle is in production as is the SD40-2 which has been a long time coming, but I think it has been worth the wait. FA's while a 2024 project aren't that far off. Reruns are only being done now to fill gaps between the new offerings and not being done as a replacement for newly tooled trains unlike other manufacturers. The future of scale O is exciting and all I can conclude with is keep your ideas coming!
Excellent post Jonathan !!! 👍👍👍
Thank you. 🙂
@Hot Water posted:The problem with that is, EMD delivered VERY FEW "low nose" GP9 model locomotives, and I believe only the Southern Pacific RR received them. All other GP9 units with the so-called "chop nose" were all modified, i.e. "chopped" by the individual railroads, and each RR tended to "chop" the short nose differently. So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,how would 3rd Rail model such varied models?
Interesting, I didn’t know this. For many including myself, just having a modified chop nose I believe is close enough. I’m not worried about it being 100%, little is in O scale.
@Bob posted:You're 8 or 9 years too late. Sunset/3rd Rail did the streamlined P-7d and Cincinnatian cars in 2015. Only 40 3-rail and 10 2-rail locomotives were supposed to be made.
I am one of the fortunate ones who bit the bullet and purchased the entire Cincinnatian set-P7D engine, five car passenger consist and the two additional cars. I haven't seen one for sale on the secondary market since.
Is there a reason that no one does Steam in plastic? Would it make the numbers work out better?
@GG1 4877 posted:However, I don't want to be overly negative. There are some great projects in development and some interesting ones coming down the road. I am personally excited that Superliners are moving forward along with Genesis and Charger locomotives.
I'm very excited to see the Genesis moving forward. I'm starting to understand the desire to model the railroad(s) you were around as a kid. I rode MetroNorth into NYC many times as a kid, and can't wait to have a model.
I think a GE ES44 series diesel would be a good model for future production instead of the previously listed GE-9 , for the last 20 years this has been the main diesel for the class 1 roads. JMO
@rplst8 posted:Is there a reason that no one does Steam in plastic? Would it make the numbers work out better?
I think that’s kinda like taboo,…..if ain’t die cast or brass, 90% of this gang would snub their noses at it, and more than likely go to pieces….😉
Pat
“Reruns are only being done now to fill gaps between the new offerings and not being done as a replacement for newly tooled trains unlike other manufacturers.” Jonathan
New models are Always Great !!! but reruns are Really Appreciated by many of us. I for one can’t buy Every Road that I would like in one run. The reruns gives us the opportunity to continue to build our “fleets” in All our favorite roads !!! 😜😉 Cheers
@PSM posted:I might be the only person interested in this, but I would love to see someone (3rd Rail, Lionel, Atlas, anyone) produce more late 1800s early 1900s locomotives. I get that they're small and hard to fit electronics into, but I think with some creativity and effort, they could be done.
Nope, you're not alone. Have wanted engines from that era and also a PRR Yellow Kid passenger train.
@PSM posted:I might be the only person interested in this, but I would love to see someone (3rd Rail, Lionel, Atlas, anyone) produce more late 1800s early 1900s locomotives. I get that they're small and hard to fit electronics into, but I think with some creativity and effort, they could be done.
I’d be interested in any O gauge model of the famous Sierra no. 3, which could be made in variations of its many movie and TV roles. It wouldn’t have to involve licensing if the models avoided using any fictitious railroad names that Sierra no. 3 has worn.
@TrainBub posted:“Reruns are only being done now to fill gaps between the new offerings and not being done as a replacement for newly tooled trains unlike other manufacturers.” Jonathan
New models are Always Great !!! but reruns are Really Appreciated by many of us. I for one can’t buy Every Road that I would like in one run. The reruns gives us the opportunity to continue to build our “fleets” in All our favorite roads !!! 😜😉 Cheers
Yes, this is right on target. There are people who are relatively new to the hobby and missed the opportunity to acquire prototypical trains they would really like to have. Maybe there are some others whose economic conditions have improved, and they can now afford what they could not back when it was originally offered. This thread makes good points about the economics of manufacturing as the key driver. Determining a minimum order quantity that will keep a company healthy can take quite a bit of knowledge, experience and judgment.
My like to see list includes 5 items, the Southern Ms4 mikado, the Southern Ks consolidation, a USRA light pacific, a Southern class Su 36 foot boxcar and a ventilated boxcar (not particular about the road on the ventilated boxcar). The first two I am not holding my breath for. The last three have marketing potential.
Also if someone wanted to redo N&W’s Cf caboose I would buy one.
@rplst8 posted:Is there a reason that no one does Steam in plastic? Would it make the numbers work out better?
If "doing" steam in plastic means making a mold, that's only economical if you're going for volume--mass production. It's true that molds for plastic are less expensive than dies for metal, but there's still a huge up-front cost. Unless the mold were cleverly made to permit exchanging domes, cabs, etc., to create railroad specific variations, I doubt we would ever see that volume. And creating provisions for that kind of customization only adds to the up-front expense.
I'm not saying that I don't like your idea. Only that the economics of it are unlikely, unless 3D printing, etc., makes it a lot cheaper to create the molds.
The point of brass models is that they are mostly handmade and NOT mass-produced. So doing "unique" locos like the experimental Baldwin 60000 4-10-2 becomes feasible (for a price.) Lionel's Vision hybrids are an attempt to leverage the economics by creating unique brass boilers to fit on the die-cast running gear they already have tooling for. There are some compromises inherent to that strategy, and they're still not cheap.
I like the fact that 3rd Rail's diesels use a large high-quality motor with a real drive, and offer the possibility of fixed pilots. Even if I never buy another complete model, I hope they make the drive parts available to upgrade models that were mass-produced with two vertical motors in the past. After 40 years in the hobby, I'm not looking for "more" so much as for something better!
@Bill N posted:My like to see list includes 5 items, the Southern Ms4 mikado, the Southern Ks consolidation, a USRA light pacific, a Southern class Su 36 foot boxcar and a ventilated boxcar (not particular about the road on the ventilated boxcar). The first two I am not holding my breath for. The last three have marketing potential.
Also if someone wanted to redo N&W’s Cf caboose I would buy one.
Would love some Ventilated boxcars.
@DMASSO posted:Mel. Atlas did the NH Alco HH660 in HO. Maybe they can make one in O.
Don't hold your breath.
Atlas doesn't seem to be on the forefront nearly like it was a decade or so ago especially in O scale.
I really like Atlas HO engines (I have multiples of their GP7's, S-2's, RS-1's, and HH660's), but they come along far and few between.
Andre
I'm just waiting for the GP30 to be announced so I can put my pre-orders in.
What I REALLY want is a pair of Erie K5 Pacifics with matching Stillwell coaches, but I suppose that's just a dream at this point.
I am a simple man: I would like to see a re-run of the Golden Gate Depot 54ft Reefers, please see below:
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...c/176694689197168822
Bryce
@jonnyspeed posted:I'm just waiting for the GP30 to be announced so I can put my pre-orders in.
What I REALLY want is a pair of Erie K5 Pacifics with matching Stillwell coaches, but I suppose that's just a dream at this point.
Erie K5 Pacifics would be fantastic!
Wow Jonathan! I'm with you on the K5s and Stillwell coaches. My guess is that they would be a Tri-State sell-out. I know that both would require new tooling so we may have to just keep dreaming. I'll settle for set of DL&W Booton cars.
Earl
I'd like to see Superliner II cars. It's tough to make a prototypical phase 6 train without them. I don't know if there would be enough interest since the Superliner I's are being produced.
I know they would need probably need to be brass, but I'd really like to see chapel cars made. The interiors on the real cars were incredible, especially the Russian Orthodox ones.
Superliner II cars will be done one day. The best prototypical combination for a Superliner is Superliner I's and II's after all. A lot of the tooling is similar if not the same. I'm in for both for my Phase VI train.
However personally, I grew up mostly riding during the Phase III years and specifically on the Superliners between 1987 and 1992. Looking forward to finally getting an accurate SW Chief!
Since we are dreaming, I say this in every 3rd Rail thread. I'd like to see a truly accurate Blue Comet. Never been done in O scale. Many have tried and come up short. I'd also like to see the same locomotives and cars in their 1950 paint schemes when they were doing commuter service.
@GG1 4877 posted:Superliner II cars will be done one day. The best prototypical combination for a Superliner is Superliner I's and II's after all.
However personally, I grew up mostly riding during the Phase III years and specifically on the Superliners between 1987 and 1992. Looking forward to finally getting an accurate SW Chief!
Since we are dreaming, I say this in every 3rd Rail thread. I'd like to see a truly accurate Blue Comet. Never been done in O scale. Many have tried and come up short. I'd also like to see the same locomotives and cars in their 1950 paint schemes when they were doing commuter service.
I'm looking to make a Phase VI Coast Starlight, so I'll need the transition and business cars. The good news is that mixing Superliner I's and II's will help the budget.
I like the Phase III paint scheme a lot, just out of curiosity, what are you using for the baggage car?
@seank941 posted:I'm looking to make a Phase VI Coast Starlight, so I'll need the transition and business cars. The good news is that mixing Superliner I's and II's will help the budget.
I like the Phase III paint scheme a lot, just out of curiosity, what are you using for the baggage car?
There has been a lot of interest in the Coast Starlight. There is a good chance the Pacific Parlour Car will run with a future run of El Capitan cars.
I purchased the Lionel 21" phase III Heritage set which has an 18" baggage car for my future SW Chief. The MTH one would have worked as would have a GGD Santa Fe Budd baggage. However, my ATSF baggage cars go with my various ATSF trains, so I'd be hesitant to repaint one. I also have three MTH Materials Handling Cars which typically ran as head end during that era on most trains.
I also am putting together the Broadway Limited I rode frequently in the late 80's / early 90' and the Lionel set works very well. As a result, I'm only missing a diner and a baggage dorm car for that train. I wasn't interested in the Station Sounds diner. Just too expensive for features I won't use. I'll use GGD Amfleets for the lounge and extra coaches for now but have older aluminum cars that will be refurbished so I can make a complete Heritage fleet train with the missing cars. Looking forward to the arrival of the Slumbercoach later this year.
An alco RS3 done right seems a no brainer — practically every road had them and you could use the exact same car body on three axle trucks for an rsd 4/5
Would love to see a Texas & New Orleans Sunbeam. The engine and matching cars.
@20centuryhudson posted:An alco RS3 done right seems a no brainer — practically every road had them and you could use the exact same car body on three axle trucks for an rsd 4/5
The RS3 while high on my list of locomotives I am interested in is not as easy as it looks on paper. As with all locomotives there were periodic specification changes throughout the years of production in addition to road specific details and several variants.
As I recall there were three major specification changes that affect the outward appearance of the RS3, not including the several variants. Not that they couldn't be done with modern tooling, just makes it a more interesting project to research, design, and execute.
Another one that I would like to personally see is a H24-66 Train Master. I would go for several CNJ ones and a PRR one in 2 rail. The brass ones Sunset did a number of years ago are next to impossible to find and any newly tooled one would be far superior.
No more than the GP7/9 I should think
@GG1 4877 posted:The RS3 while high on my list of locomotives I am interested in is not as easy as it looks on paper. As with all locomotives there were periodic specification changes throughout the years of production in addition to road specific details and several variants.
As I recall there were three major specification changes that affect the outward appearance of the RS3, not including the several variants. Not that they couldn't be done with modern tooling, just makes it a more interesting project to research, design, and execute.
Building correct RS-3's could be a nightmare for 3rd Rail. For example, PRR had 127 of them on their roster, with no less than 20 variations. Trainphone, cab signals, dynamic brakes, headlight type, number board placement and steam heat boiler are some of the features that were mixed and matched on these units, and all led to visible exterior detail differences.
Plaintive cry from the wilderness: Rock Island 4-8-4 !
@Bob posted:Building correct RS-3's could be a nightmare for 3rd Rail. For example, PRR had 127 of them on their roster, with no less than 20 variations. Trainphone, cab signals, dynamic brakes, headlight type, number board placement and steam heat boiler are some of the features that were mixed and matched on these units, and all led to visible exterior detail differences.
The obvious solution would be to pick one locomotive, perhaps the first one, the last one to be retired, or one that was the most photographed around a large city, and build a model of just that one locomotive. If that isn't good enough for too-picky fans, they don't have to buy it and probably don't deserve to have anything. I doubt that any of my O gauge locomotive models from Sunset, MTH Premier, Lionel, Atlas O or Weaver is precisely accurate - but some are quite close and that's good enough for me. Remember, in building any locomotive model, deviations from prototype always must be made to engineer the model for operation. They never are perfectly accurate - just close enough for most people.
MELGAR
@MELGAR posted:The obvious solution would be to pick one locomotive, perhaps the first one, the last one to be retired, or one that was the most photographed around a large city, and build a model of just that one locomotive. If that isn't good enough for too-picky fans, they don't have to buy it and probably don't deserve to have anything. I doubt that any of my O gauge locomotive models from Sunset, MTH Premier, Lionel, Atlas O or Weaver is precisely accurate - but some are quite close and that's good enough for me. Remember, in building any locomotive model, deviations from prototype always must be made to engineer the model for operation. They never are perfectly accurate - just close enough for most people.
MELGAR
I disagree. What if a customer wants to purchase 2 or more models, with different road numbers, for "his/her railroad" being modeled? Then, what if a customer wants correct models of units used in freight service, plus additional correct models of units used in passenger service? Also wanting to purchase multiple models? Sure, it would be expensive but, what in model railroading isn't expensive any more?
Seems most logical to do the most common rs3 one common to most railroads— I have no doubt it would sell very well — I’d order at least two — LIRR from the 60’s would be a real good one
@GG1 4877 posted:The RS3 while high on my list of locomotives I am interested in is not as easy as it looks on paper. As with all locomotives there were periodic specification changes throughout the years of production in addition to road specific details and several variants.
As I recall there were three major specification changes that affect the outward appearance of the RS3, not including the several variants. Not that they couldn't be done with modern tooling, just makes it a more interesting project to research, design, and execute.
@Bob posted:Building correct RS-3's could be a nightmare for 3rd Rail. For example, PRR had 127 of them on their roster, with no less than 20 variations. Trainphone, cab signals, dynamic brakes, headlight type, number board placement and steam heat boiler are some of the features that were mixed and matched on these units, and all led to visible exterior detail differences.
Man, I really love prototypical scale model accuracy. That’s something that gives me a lot of enjoyment. Then I go and set the scale model down on my track where the number of rails is incorrect by 50%. When I try to think about why what I’m doing makes any sense I get a headache.
@GG1 4877 posted:Another one that I would like to personally see is a H24-66 Train Master. I would go for several CNJ ones and a PRR one in 2 rail. The brass ones Sunset did a number of years ago are next to impossible to find and any newly tooled one would be far superior.
It would be great to see these done by 3rd Rail !!!!! 😜👍😜👍😉😉😉
I'd like to see GP-35's or GP-38/GP38-2's. There are lots of great roads that could be produced, and almost every major road owned some.
Not specific to 3rd Rail. EMC FT diesels.
I'd really like a GE BQ23-7 in O scale. I don't know if there is a manufacturer other than 3rd Rail that would consider making one of those.
I might have odd preferences but I'm a big fan of commuter rail and bi-level/double decker cars.
It's great 3rd rail is doing the superliners (and I have my reservation in), lionel lost their superliner, according to a recent podcast they were on, Legend has it K-line's tooling was melted down when they went bankrupt, MTH still has their superliner tooling but isn't planning on doing anything with it as far as I know.
I would love to see some commuter F40PHs and Bi-levels, although atlas bought the F40PH tooling it looks like they're only using it to work with their existing horizon/comet tooling, and the MTH bi-level tooling wasn't too detailed to begin with.
There are a large number of different commuter roads using similar cars:
NJ transit, MARC, LIRR all use the roughly the same type of bi-level car
Sounder, New Mexico Rail Runner, GO Transit, Metrolink, Florida Tri-Rail, Trinity use roughly the same type of bilevel car
Metra, VRE, Music city star, Caltrain, roughly use the same type of bi-level with a number of possible variations for Metra
As for the F40PHs most of the above use/used them as well as VIA rail and MBTA
To me there seems to be a ton of options with little body changes which seem to be in-line with what 3rd rail offers in diesels.
It's a pipe dream though, the MTH F40PHs (except for amtrak) are near impossible to find, and the bi-levels are a bit easier to find but very high on the secondary market. With atlas having the F40PH tooling I doubt we'll see any of the lesser-known commuter roads from either MTH or Atlas again.
@DashingDanLIRR posted:NJ transit, MARC, LIRR all use the roughly the same type of bi-level car
Septa bought similar ones too.
I say this same thing anytime a similar topic comes up...I'm not picky. I would like to see a GP20(favorite diesel). Both Lionel and MTH have brought them to market but I have to fix the pilots, etc. I know a model from 3rd rail would outstanding.
Dave
@DashingDanLIRR posted:It's a pipe dream though, the MTH F40PHs (except for amtrak) are near impossible to find, and the bi-levels are a bit easier to find but very high on the secondary market. With atlas having the F40PH tooling I doubt we'll see any of the lesser-known commuter roads from either MTH or Atlas again.
The F40PH is my generations F unit so I am a big fan. I have over a dozen in 3 rail from MTH and K-Line. I think the biggest challenge with offering these is that MTH, K-Line, and Lionel have done well rendered versions of this locomotive. Certainly not perfect, especially on the VIA F40PH-3s that have the rebuilt rear hood for the HEP gensets and the distinctly Canadian 3 lamp headlights, or the Juniata rebuilds of NJT F40PH-2s that eliminated the rear porches. Atlas's 2 rail versions based on the MTH tooling were actually very good. Hard to see how to compete with that. However, F40PHs are certainly found in so many unusual locations these days doing service for several railroads in a 2nd or 3rd life. Just recently I saw that USDOT was using former Amtrak ones in cab crash safety testing. A sad way to end such long careers, but they are still providing very a very useful service 47 years after they were introduced.
3rd Rail did announce the SDP40F and the FP45, but neither got a lot of traction unfortunately. Those big 6 axle EMDs are among my favorites also and the Scaleking version is so inaccurate. Not a F40PH, but the lineage is clear of the development of the cowl unit.
As for bi-levels, a bit past my days riding NJT, but nice cars. The GO style cars are much easier to do in aluminum which is likely the market based on numbers of likely orders. The NJT cars would likely require an injection mold, but perhaps not. If they did, the MOQ to make those happen jumps significantly.
I do agree that the modern commuter market is a very interesting one though. Who knows what may happen down the road? While I am not specifically a Canadian modeler, riding the Canadian into Toronto during rush hour was fascinating train watching with the GO Transit local trains being pulled by MP36s, the VIA regional corridor trains with LRV cars and a P42 on one end and an F40PH on the other, and finally being on the all Budd Canadian which just seemed so out of time.
@Trainbros89 posted:Would also love to see a Dynamometer car, and a Mckeen Motor Car. Scott has told me in the past that the Dyna car is probably “not likely”.
"Dynamometer car." That would sell out!
@GG1 4877 posted:3rd Rail did announce the SDP40F and the FP45, but neither got a lot of traction unfortunately. Those big 6 axle EMDs are among my favorites also and the Scaleking version is so inaccurate. Not a F40PH, but the lineage is clear of the development of the cowl unit.
Ho Ho Hokus! When did 3rd Rail announce the SDP40F? I don't remember ANY announcement 🤔 from 3rd Rail for that loco or the F45 that many want.
I know there was lot of posts on this forum clamoring for the SDP40F since there is now a plethora of scale and 3 Rail heritage cars/sets to support a run of the Amtrak SDP40F for several years but I never saw a formal announcement nor a reservation for either the Amtrak SDP40F in any of the 4 schemes [3 for Amtrak-ph1,2,&3] plus EMD/PFM test bed schemes and the Santa Fe/Maersk scheme for those who want that unit with the front notch and platform.... then add the F45 model and all those schemes and possibly the FP45 and those paint schemes.
Scott M did a statement in 3rd Rsil email/newsletter a couple of YEARS AGO [1/3/2022] that an announcement of the F45/SDP40F was coming [pending Amtrak licensing agreement] but alas, NO FORMAL ANNOUNCEMENT/RESERVATION FORM occured as far as I can recall.
@DashingDanLIRR posted:It's a pipe dream though, the MTH F40PHs (except for amtrak) are near impossible to find, and the bi-levels are a bit easier to find but very high on the secondary market. With atlas having the F40PH tooling I doubt we'll see any of the lesser-known commuter roads from either MTH or Atlas again.
The same way certain hobby shops are doing special runs with MTH couldn't they do it with Atlas as well?
@BobbyD posted:The same way certain hobby shops are doing special runs with MTH couldn't they do it with Atlas as well?
Yes Mr. Muffins has. But special runs for hobby shops are only available when the mfg/importer has it on schedule for production.
@BobbyD posted:The same way certain hobby shops are doing special runs with MTH couldn't they do it with Atlas as well?
I've asked about Caltrain and Metrolink (even though the real Metrolink loco is slightly different), but I've been told that no single commuter line has enough interest to meet the minimum.
It's a shame because scale commuter trains work well on layouts. Most Superliner trains are 2 locos and at least 7 cars plus a separate baggage car. That's 168 inches of cars alone!
@DashingDanLIRR posted: ...snip...Sounder, New Mexico Rail Runner, GO Transit, Metrolink, Florida Tri-Rail, Trinity use roughly the same type of bilevel car
K-Line did an excellent 21" Bombardier tri-level but never got around to releasing the TriRail version. 
I ended up picking up the 21" O scale 4-car SOUNDER set:
About six months after I got the set, someone tossed a two-railed SOUNDER set into the 'bay and, stupidly, I did NOT fish it out! 
NOTE: The HO and N ones are Athearn.
@DashingDanLIRR posted: ...snip......snip... It's a pipe dream though, the MTH F40PHs (except for amtrak) are near impossible to find, and the bi-levels are a bit easier to find but very high on the secondary market. With atlas having the F40PH tooling I doubt we'll see any of the lesser-known commuter roads from either MTH or Atlas again.
MTH did release an F40PH in TriRail, I have the two-rail version, although it carries the wrong road number. The number that MTH used actually belongs on one of the original MK rebuilds (801 - 805) that were obtained on TriRail's start-up. Anyway, I got it from a Stout Auction that handled the estate of a member of an O scale club that I used to belong to when I lived in south Florida although I did not know that at the time of the auction. A friend and I bid on a number of items (some successfully, some not) in that auction; weeks later, when I decided to closely examine a Williams Peter Witt trolley that I won, I found a receipt from a local S FL hobby shop signed by Ron. When I told my friend both about it and my knowledge of Ron's stuff that he would bring to the club, a whole lot of the auction listings made sense.
A humorous follow-on. Many years ago (late 1980s), the late Howard Murray and I went to a private O scale sale in Miami that we saw a listing for in MR. Among some other items, I bought a two-car set of Custom Brass PRR MP-54s. Some years later, I sold the set to Ron as I needed some money and he had previously expressed an interest in them. Fast forwarding to the Stout Auction, I bought a two-car MP-54 set the was listed. After I discovered Ron's receipt in the trolley's box, I realized that I had bought that same set again! There were a couple of marks on one of the cars that I remembered. Ron was a collector mainly, although he did run some of his stuff at the club.
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@BobbyD posted:"Dynamometer car." That would sell out!
I doubt it, every road's cars were different. Now a Sperry car might be better.
I would consider a Sperry Car
@GG1 4877 posted:The F40PH is my generations F unit so I am a big fan. I have over a dozen in 3 rail from MTH and K-Line. I think the biggest challenge with offering these is that MTH, K-Line, and Lionel have done well rendered versions of this locomotive. Certainly not perfect, especially on the VIA F40PH-3s that have the rebuilt rear hood for the HEP gensets and the distinctly Canadian 3 lamp headlights, or the Juniata rebuilds of NJT F40PH-2s that eliminated the rear porches. Atlas's 2 rail versions based on the MTH tooling were actually very good. Hard to see how to compete with that. However, F40PHs are certainly found in so many unusual locations these days doing service for several railroads in a 2nd or 3rd life. Just recently I saw that USDOT was using former Amtrak ones in cab crash safety testing. A sad way to end such long careers, but they are still providing very a very useful service 47 years after they were introduced.
3rd Rail did announce the SDP40F and the FP45, but neither got a lot of traction unfortunately. Those big 6 axle EMDs are among my favorites also and the Scaleking version is so inaccurate. Not a F40PH, but the lineage is clear of the development of the cowl unit.
As for bi-levels, a bit past my days riding NJT, but nice cars. The GO style cars are much easier to do in aluminum which is likely the market based on numbers of likely orders. The NJT cars would likely require an injection mold, but perhaps not. If they did, the MOQ to make those happen jumps significantly.
I do agree that the modern commuter market is a very interesting one though. Who knows what may happen down the road? While I am not specifically a Canadian modeler, riding the Canadian into Toronto during rush hour was fascinating train watching with the GO Transit local trains being pulled by MP36s, the VIA regional corridor trains with LRV cars and a P42 on one end and an F40PH on the other, and finally being on the all Budd Canadian which just seemed so out of time.
Lionel, MTH, and Atlas do have great tooling the issue is MTH was the only one that did the smaller commuter roads and they are very hard to find (add the rocky mountaineer to that list). For example I have been attempting to find a GO Transit F40PH for about 3 years now and have had no luck in locating one, it looks like there was an unpowered one posted to ebay last year but I missed that. I think the potential to offer so many different schemes lines up well with some of 3rd rail's other offerings like the Genesis, Budd units, etc. The VIA modelers nitpick the MTH model too for the lack of the correct cab.
The most common bi-level for sure is the bombardier one (the go transit style one), that one has also been done by MTH but the tooling (in my opinion) is very basic and quite poor. The metra-style MTH did is a bit better but also not as detailed as they could be. Both of these don't look like they will be re-relased anytime soon, and their last release date was 2017.
The NJT-style ones have never been done properly before, and could also be used for Metra, Septa, MBTA, LIRR, essentially any commuter road running on the PRR NE corridor line is forced to use the NJT-style bi-levels because of the low tunnels.
If any of these are done I can say for sure my wallet would be in trouble 
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:Yes Mr. Muffins has. But special runs for hobby shops are only available when the mfg/importer has it on schedule for production.
If enough stores request an item it may change their product production plans.
@seank941 posted:I've asked about Caltrain and Metrolink (even though the real Metrolink loco is slightly different), but I've been told that no single commuter line has enough interest to meet the minimum.
It's a shame because scale commuter trains work well on layouts. Most Superliner trains are 2 locos and at least 7 cars plus a separate baggage car. That's 168 inches of cars alone!
Sadle sometimes they just don't understand the demand, especially the pent up demand, of products their customers will buy. And if you head to a certain auction site you can see all the ones they produced with little demand.
@BobbyD posted:If enough stores request an item it may change their product production plans.
If anyone has connections with Mrmuffin or trainworld or any other shop I'd love to recommend re-running the Rocky Mountaineer (especially since Atlas owns both of the toolings now), and running VIA
@PRRMP54 posted:I doubt it, every road's cars were different. Now a Sperry car might be better.
That hasn't stopped Lionel with their 21" cars not being accurate and still producing them in various road names. If a close, generic, Dyno car was offered they would sell. While maybe not to the rivet counter crowd, there are way more that would accept close enough. Seems Menards is doing good business in that market with their "always a new Beta" F units.
I'd like to see the modern 60' High Cube double-door boxcars. These are extremely common on the rails today, and most of the class ones have some painted up in their road name, so there should be plenty of variety to support sales. It seems like a no-brainer to do these in plastic, but none of the other big three have seized the opportunity, so maybe 3rd rail could do it?
@BobbyD posted:That hasn't stopped Lionel with their 21" cars not being accurate and still producing them in various road names. If a close, generic, Dyno car was offered they would sell. While maybe not to the rivet counter crowd, there are way more that would accept close enough. Seems Menards is doing good business in that market with their "always a new Beta" F units.
3rd Rail customers pretty much *are* the rivet counter crowd that wants researched, prototypically accurate models, is willing to pay a premium for them, won't accept "close enough" (see the first run GP7 / GP9s from a few years ago), and the company generally doesn't do generic or fantasy schemes. IMHO 3rd Rail trying to follow Menards at anything would be a disaster. They're completely different companies that bring completely different types of value to the hobby.
I don't see why modern offerings like the ES44 wouldn't be a great sell.... customers really stepped up to the plate for the dash 9s! And the sd40s only took a few hundred years to reach profitability 
One a more serious note, I think market assessment is more an art than a science. And in a lot of ways it's a bit of a mystery. Having said that, 3rd Rail is the only consistent, HQ 2 rail manufacturer out there. And there are plenty of reasons for their current standing.
@SANTIAGOP23 posted:I don't see why modern offerings like the ES44 wouldn't be a great sell.... customers really stepped up to the plate for the dash 9s! And the sd40s only took a few hundred years to reach profitability
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@BlueFeather posted:3rd Rail customers pretty much *are* the rivet counter crowd that wants researched, prototypically accurate models, is willing to pay a premium for them, won't accept "close enough" (see the first run GP7 / GP9s from a few years ago), and the company generally doesn't do generic or fantasy schemes. IMHO 3rd Rail trying to follow Menards at anything would be a disaster. They're completely different companies that bring completely different types of value to the hobby.
This is spot on. There is a place in the market for all sorts of different offerings at different levels of quality and cost. To try and be everything for everyone is a recipe for failure.
The market can be Weird. The SD40s took forever… I’d given up but they Finally got there. Amtrak was dead … until it got hot - now it looks like “everyone” wants it.
Boy …. You never know. You just have to try. All I know is given a choice, I’d rather have 3rd Rail and GGD products than anything else !!!!! 😜👍
Cheers 😉
@SANTIAGOP23 posted:I don't see why modern offerings like the ES44 wouldn't be a great sell.... customers really stepped up to the plate for the dash 9s! And the sd40s only took a few hundred years to reach profitability
While initial research started on the SD40-2 at least a few millennia before EMD offered it originally in 1972, something can be said for persistence. Tools are being cut for this project now! It is finally real. 
On the serious side too, I also agree on the mystery of the science behind what will sell Santiago. That is why I think Scott's business plan is so robust. It is a lean organization and if a project doesn't get the right commitment in pre-orders it won't happen. There is no bias. It's only legitimate measure of what will ultimately sell and what won't. We all have seen situations where one poor decision on a product offering has meant the end of the line for several high-end brass manufacturers over the years.
Sunset 3rd Rail will continue to offer products. That will last as long as Scott can make a living at it. They build to reservations, so if you want something that is offered for reservation, you have to make a reservation.
And projects are offered based on the input Scott and his helpers get at shows and on line. If enough people request something, a reservation file is opened to see if there really is demand.
Sunset has been doing this for over 40 years with Scott's father and then Scott running the business. They have a lot of experience with what sells and at what price points.
OGR332 has 3rd Rail advert with a new announcement for a GP30?
332 also has the EL3's...
@Trainbros89 posted:332 also has the EL3's...
This is awesome! I will place an immediate order for a set once they're available for reservation. 
@BlueFeather posted:This is awesome! I will place an immediate order for a set once they're available for reservation.
Me too! I can't wait!
@Ian Munro posted:OGR332 has 3rd Rail advert with a new announcement for a GP30?
People looking for realistic power for modeling the WMSR would probably enjoy #501 and / or #502 offered in WM livery as an option (perhaps in one of several cool paint jobs as seen at https://wmsr.com/our-locomotives/western-maryland-501). Not sure how this might be handled by 3rd Rail even though WM wasn't one of the original purchasers?
@BlueFeather posted:This is awesome! I will place an immediate order for a set once they're available for reservation.
Like wise. Can’t wait to get the EL-3a. Have to start the funding for it now!
Alco C628 - - - in Chicago & North Western livery.
@Ian Munro posted:OGR332 has 3rd Rail advert with a new announcement for a GP30?
I hope not. If so like the C44-9, I wish Scott M the best of luck. In 3 rail a GP30 was already made by MTH, WBB, Lionel and possibly Atlas O soon. Scott's going to rely on his 2 rail crowd for that model.
His best bet really is the F45/FP45/SDP40F or the SDP45 or SD45-2.
A proper RS-3 is in my opinion a no brainer---it would sell very well no doubts
@20centuryhudson posted:A proper RS-3 is in my opinion a no brainer---it would sell very well no doubts
Works very well along side late steam.
A 3rd rail RS-3. The gift that would keep on giving to the maufacture as well as the buyers. For a long, long time.
- Crank
Scott did "Little People"; perhaps he should consider a series of "Little Cars."
We have all been complaining that the selection 1:48 vehicles was almost no existent. In another thread people have stated that lack of 1:48 cars of the 30s, 40s, and even 50s. I think this would be an excellent addition to the GGD product line. We would need super detailed engine and passenger compartments.
Jan
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:I hope not. If so like the C44-9, I wish Scott M the best of luck. In 3 rail a GP30 was already made by MTH, WBB, Lionel and possibly Atlas O soon. Scott's going to rely on his 2 rail crowd for that model.
His best bet really is the F45/FP45/SDP40F or the SDP45 or SD45-2.
Scott has done multiple runs of F3s, F7s, GP7/9s, E7s, E8s, etc... I'm sure he will be fine. There is no GP30 with a fixed pilot, horizontal drive, and cab interior detail anywhere for the 3RS guys. And for us 2R guys I'm fairly sure there was only ever 1 2R GP30 done by Overland. I am ordering as many as I can afford in 2R.
GP30 ….. a nice new offering 👍👍👍👍Attractive to 2 rail AND 3 rail crowd a Plus !!!!!
@jonnyspeed posted:Scott has done multiple runs of F3s, F7s, GP7/9s, E7s, E8s, etc... I'm sure he will be fine. There is no GP30 with a fixed pilot, horizontal drive, and cab interior detail anywhere for the 3RS guys. And for us 2R guys I'm fairly sure there was only ever 1 2R GP30 done by Overland. I am ordering as many as I can afford in 2R.
NJ Custom Brass produced one in the late 70s/early 80s. I have a pair of them.
@PRRMP54 posted:NJ Custom Brass produced one in the late 70s/early 80s. I have a pair of them.
I heard about those. Never seen them though so wasn't gonna claim it. Were they unfinished brass or factory painted? I had the OMI Chessie GP30, and frankly I expect that these will blow the OMI out of the water.
@jonnyspeed posted:I heard about those. Never seen them though so wasn't gonna claim it. Were they unfinished brass or factory painted? I had the OMI Chessie GP30, and frankly I expect that these will blow the OMI out of the water.
I do not remember if they were offered factory-painted, mine were gotten unpainted as I had them custom-painted for a fictitious road. I believe that they were sold with Central Loco Works drives. At least mine have CLW drives.
Waiting patiently for my FP45's
GP30 now showing on 3rd Rail website.
Delighted to see there is a B&O livery available for the GP30s on 3rd Rail's website!
I wish 3rd rail would add Cotton Belt (same as SP- just different lettering) to the GP30. That would make get two.
@Jan posted:Scott did "Little People"; perhaps he should consider a series of "Little Cars."
We have all been complaining that the selection 1:48 vehicles was almost no existent. In another thread people have stated that lack of 1:48 cars of the 30s, 40s, and even 50s. I think this would be an excellent addition to the GGD product line. We would need super detailed engine and passenger compartments.
Jan
I would definitely go for this. For my purposes I would have the hoods shut so I would not need the engine compartments super detailed. I wonder how 1:48 prototypical vehicle replicas would fare in the judgement of a minimum order quantity that would enable their manufacture. I would expect them to be more expensive than the 1:43 scale cars that are so widely available. But the absolute price should be far below a prototypical scale model locomotive or rail car making them more affordable to more people on a per unit basis. I wonder how much that might increase sales volume.
@Blue Streak posted:I wish 3rd rail would add Cotton Belt (same as SP- just different lettering) to the GP30. That would make get two.
Actually, as delivered to the Cotten Belt, their GP30 units were gray, i.e. not looking anything like Southern Pacific.
@Blue Streak posted:I wish 3rd rail would add Cotton Belt (same as SP- just different lettering) to the GP30. That would make get two.
Me too. I did exactly this with 3rd Rails GP9s - though it’s an earlier paint scheme.
They look Great together !!! 😜
Cheers 😉
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@Hot Water posted:Actually, as delivered to the Cotten Belt, their GP30 units were gray, i.e. not looking anything like Southern Pacific.
I can’t find anything other than grey with the red nose for the CB GP30. This matches with the SP. Beyond the lettering ID, The CB can be spotted by its early 60’s yellow railings. I think the CB numbers were a bit smaller too.
Would love a Re-run of the Norfolk and Western M Class #475..missed the 1st run.
Still waiting for the Virginian FM Train Master.
Ed
Considering the SP went to the bloody nose scheme in 1959 and the GP30 was introduced in 1961, it makes sense that the Cotton Belt paint scheme would be bloody nose too.
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...20!!!%20%F0%9F%98%9C
I bought two Cotton Belts GP9's myself & 3 T&P's. I see 3rd Rail added Cotton Belt today to the GP30's.
Jonathan are these going to be as built - With the yellow handrails or later repaints with SP colored handrails? I prefer "As-Built" myself
I have seen a lot of pictures of SP and Cotton Belt side by side and they look pretty close to me. In-fact if you go to Espee.railfan.net they have some pics of Factory shots of SP units and Cotton Belt - Looks like a couple of Doppler Gangers to me.
Time to Pony Up.
Joe
@TrainBub posted:I can’t find anything other than grey with the red nose for the CB GP30. This matches with the SP. Beyond the lettering ID, The CB can be spotted by its early 60’s yellow railings. I think the CB numbers were a bit smaller too.
I don't honestly remember any "red nose", but being on the delivery of those new units, and working out of Pine Bluff, Ark, I know for sure that they were a light gray. I've sold all my color slides, so I'm not able to post photos of those nice new GP30 units.
@Hot Water posted:I don't honestly remember any "red nose", but being on the delivery of those new units, and working out of Pine Bluff, Ark, I know for sure that they were a light gray. I've sold all my color slides, so I'm not able to post photos of those nice new GP30 units.
A good reference I use for SP is “southern Pacific Painting and Lettering Guide” by Cauthen and Signor for the SPHS&TS. Though not GP30s, there are some Cotton Belt pix close to the 30s and text concerning the paint, lettering and handrail color.
Scott has now posted a “starter” image CB in the GP30 offering. It’s grey and has the red nose like the SP.
SSW (not CB) units were the same red and grey as the SP units, but with SSW on the nose and Cotton Belt on the hood.
@Number 90 posted:SSW (not CB) units were the same red and grey as the SP units, but with SSW on the nose and Cotton Belt on the hood.
Yes. 😉 but …… I see variations on the nose - just red, just a number, a number with SSW above the number, just SSW. Cotton Belt on the side.
Perhaps year of paint and diesel type plays a roll. It’s early. Let’s fret the details Later.
@TrainBub posted:A good reference I use for SP is “southern Pacific Painting and Lettering Guide” by Cauthen and Signor for the SPHS&TS. Though not GP30s, there are some Cotton Belt pix close to the 30s and text concerning the paint, lettering and handrail color.
Scott has now posted a “starter” image CB in the GP30 offering. It’s grey and has the red nose like the SP.
But,,,,,,,,,,,,I delivered those units to the Cotten Belt (1962 or 1963) and as delivered they were a lighter gray with no "red nose", to my memory. It is probably difficult to find photos of "as delivered" Cotton Bely GP30s. On the other hand, why would Sunset/3rd Rail offer them as delivered anyway, if that color scheme didn't last long?
@Hot Water posted:But,,,,,,,,,,,,I delivered those units to the Cotten Belt (1962 or 1963) and as delivered they were a lighter gray with no "red nose", to my memory. It is probably difficult to find photos of "as delivered" Cotton Bely GP30s. On the other hand, why would Sunset/3rd Rail offer them as delivered anyway, if that color scheme didn't last long?
Scott seemed to trend towards offering/producing “as delivered” models - but I don’t know if that still the “rule”. I think it’s what the customers want and perhaps what is most often seen or what is the “usual” wins the day to what is offered/delivered. That’s My perception.
It’s early. This will get worked out. In Jonathan We Trust !!!! 😬😉
Waiting for the Amtrak SDPF40F.
I am really surprised at all of the responses to my initial post on this subject that I started. I follow the 3rd Rail site regularly. When the new models indicator on the Reserve Section dipped below 10,it got me wondering at to what might happen. Usually the Reserve Section has 12 or so models. It looks like the interest is there for more quality products from Sunset 3rd Rail.
Another thing that I find to be amazing is Bob Bartizek's knowledge of the Pennsylvania Railroad. His posts dating back to the inception of this forum in 2000 have been truly intuitive and most informative. Bob is a great teacher of everything PRR!
Norm
@Hot Water posted:Actually, as delivered to the Cotten Belt, their GP30 units were gray, i.e. not looking anything like Southern Pacific.
Perhaps they were delivered in primer and the Cotton Belt shops were going to paint the units themselves?
@Texas Eagle 77 posted:Perhaps they were delivered in primer and the Cotton Belt shops were going to paint the units themselves?
No. They were light gray and lettered for Cotton Belt from the factory, when they showed up in Pine Bluff, AR for pre-servicing. Besides, except for one very special occasion, EMD did not ship units in primer.
Again on the espee website I mentioned before there is a EMD photo of 754 at the factory. At least that’s what it says. And if you look close it has the red nose. Maybe some earlier delivered units did not have the red nose when delivered. As far as lighter grey I will have to take your word as I was not around in 1963 and that’s hard to tell on black and white photos. How long after delivery did the grey become the same color as SP?
The EL'3's are up for reservation!
@Trainbros89 posted:The EL'3's are up for reservation!
I'm in . . . reservation submitted. Really looking forward to these.
@BlueFeather posted:I'm in . . . reservation submitted. Really looking forward to these.
Me too! I am trying to spread word about the offering to some N&W/VGN groups that I am apart of to ensure this project gets traction.
Just saw the reservations. I’m in also!!
Any interest in a matching caboose to go with the EL3's??
@Trainbros89 posted:Any interest in a matching caboose to go with the EL3's??
Definitely. I have a pair of wooden C-1s built for me by Brother Love but would totally sign up for a re-run of the Sunset steel C-10s!
@BlueFeather I asked Scott about offering VGN cabooses to go with the EL3's, he said that the orders for the set have been low so far
Lets see if we can get more interest for the EL3's!
That's a bummer. I hope they get made! I suspect almost $3k for the set may be a bit steep. I guess he needs ~33 sets to get them going?
@BlueFeather posted:That's a bummer. I hope they get made! I suspect almost $3k for the set may be a bit steep. I guess he needs ~33 sets to get them going?
He told me around 80 units
Have a set already on order. Hope they get made.
@jstraw124 posted:Have a set already on order. Hope they get made.
Likewise !
I also have it on order. I think this could be a great model as can be seen by the HO version by Overland. Pretty cool with all of those side rods moving on the three units. Hope this will get done!!
@John Hon posted:I also have it on order. I think this could be a great model as can be seen by the HO version by Overland. Pretty cool with all of those side rods moving on the three units. Hope this will get done!!
Fingers crossed!
